Author Topic: What crank to run  (Read 1070 times)

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Offline N-gin

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What crank to run
« on: December 06, 2017, 12:48:48 AM »
Last I heard the SS crank was the top contender as far as round pin cranks go. The flywheels are wider also. However they use a thin crank pin plug, does it matter that much?
But I'm wandering if there are others out there that are making the changes to keep up.
Not everyone has 2500$ to drop on a crank (thanks P3R)  :cry:
So I'm wondering if there is another to consider.
For an engine that is going to be ran hard and possibly (hopefully) doing 150TQ.
I ask cause someone had brought up R&R 5 piece. It looks great and seems to be well made. See a video on YouTube and from what I gather King of Cubes likes them. Also points out the pug that supports the crank is wider.
Any thoughts on their crank?
I'm also looking for some good rods and preferably MIA.
Thanks for any help

Seem to me someone needs to try and pin the crank pin.
Please excuse the chicken scratch drawing, but you can see the red pin.
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Offline Rsw

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 01:25:53 AM »
I put the Darkhorse Man-o-war in mine very nice piece

Offline jmorton10

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 04:06:41 AM »
I've run nothing but S&S wheels for years (in hundreds of motors), never had a problem with them.

~John
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Offline No Cents

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 04:20:56 AM »
  the newer 3 piece S&S flywheels are pretty tough. I was told by S&S that they would hold 200hp right out of the box.
I don't have 200hp...but I do have over 150tq...and the S&S crank in my 124" has performed flawlessly.
 Darkhorse is on top their game if you choose to go with them. John is a perfectionist and he comes highly rated. He did the wheels in my 117" build for me...and I never regretted it. After I sold the 117" to Brian...he put another 40,000 miles on that 117" without issue.
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Offline turboprop

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 05:24:30 AM »
Another course of action is to have Darkhorse build the crankshaft from S&S wheels and the rods of your choice. Thats what I did, S&S wheels with Carrillo rods. Very happy with the results.
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Offline calgary56

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Offline Thermodyne

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 01:52:20 PM »
My wheels were way off.  .009 on the sprocket and .006 on the pinion.  The pinion was getting worse over time.  .004 at 20k miles and now .006 at 41K.

I just went with a set of S&S wheels and had my indy convert it to a Timken lefty. 


Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM »
S&S the weak link is the rods.
R&R crank has h-beams and will be perfectly balanced to your pistons. Not "close"
The S&S is not bad but the R&R is better, the next is p3r with carrillos
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 02:00:56 PM by HD Street Performance »

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 02:01:16 PM »
So has R&R fixed the issues since their original 5 piece?

Offline jsachs1

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 03:16:44 PM »
P3R bullet proof.  :up: The last 124" I did.
John
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:23:35 PM by jsachs1 »

Offline ThumperDeuce

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 06:02:45 PM »
So has R&R fixed the issues since their original 5 piece?

I hope so.  Mine shifted on the dyno.  Never again.  S&S with the full Darkhorse modifications.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 07:23:19 PM »
Another course of action is to have Darkhorse build the crankshaft from S&S wheels and the rods of your choice. Thats what I did, S&S wheels with Carrillo rods. Very happy with the results.

I would second the Darkhorse process. They built mine with S&S wheels, used DH H beam rods and their crank pin.I was told they rate them to 200 hp.

 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 06:37:07 AM by Ohio HD »
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Offline K4FXD

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 08:17:59 PM »
I don't see how that triangle can let the wheel move. Or am I missing something?
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Offline N-gin

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 11:28:11 PM »
P3R bullet proof.  :up: The last 124" I did.
John
:up: holy smokes that's purdy.


I put the Darkhorse Man-o-war in mine very nice piece
That looks like a nice crank..


However I understood that the whole crank being welded was not a good thing  :scratch:
Or did things change again with using wider flywheels.


Does the Dark horse crank use the wider plugs than SS?
What was and what is the crank pin diameter now?
The DH does have a nice price tag, but the whole welded idea does have me concerned. To me if you weld the metal gets hot enough to relax and loose the press fit..that's what pushed me towards the SS crank..
I did look into RR 5piece and read a lot of issues with scissoring, around 6+ years ago. Did they change?

This is a big decision for sure, it is the heart and foundation that can make or break a build..
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Online KaritheFinn

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Offline turboprop

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 03:46:01 AM »
Keep in mind, that Darkhorse offers crankshaft services, they don't really make a lot of hardware. There is no one size fits all, 'The Darkhorse Crankshaft'. They are all built application specific.

For example, the Darkhorse built crankshaft in my Smack-A-Hoe engine was built using S&S wheels and Carrillo rods. At the time, I had an option of several different brand wheels and even more connecting rods.
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Offline WhipLash96

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2017, 06:30:43 AM »
I put the Darkhorse Man-o-war in mine very nice piece

This is the rout I am going! :up: :SM:
Thanks,
Whip

Offline Deye76

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2017, 08:32:28 AM »
" if you weld the metal gets hot enough to relax and loose the press fit"

I guess it would depend on the plug. Maybe could if welding the stock tin cup. DH used their plug and welded it on a set of 4.375" SE wheels. Their H beam rods were added and that assembly has been beat on for over 80, 000 miles.
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Offline N-gin

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2017, 06:09:12 PM »
It's my under standing that if you get metal hot it relaxes. No matter how thick. So I guess that is what I'm trying to argue. Is it worth the weld? Seems to work for dark horse but not SS ???

Are the flywheels halves of the DH crank as wide as the SS?
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 06:19:10 PM »
DH used S&S made wheels for my 4-5/8 crank. Everything else between the wheels is DH. Are they off the shelf S&S items? I would guess yes, and maybe DH finish machines for their crank pin? That's just a guess though.
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Offline turboprop

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2017, 07:20:41 AM »
It's my under standing that if you get metal hot it relaxes. No matter how thick. So I guess that is what I'm trying to argue. Is it worth the weld? Seems to work for dark horse but not SS ???

Are the flywheels halves of the DH crank as wide as the SS?

For the purpose of this discussion, there is no such thing as a 'Darkhorse Crank'. Darkhorse prepared or built are much more accurate terms to use.

To answer your question, the answer really depends on whose flywheel DH used for a particular build. Two of my DH cranks were built using S&S wheels, but I have a third crankshaft built by them with wheels made by Jims with Carillo rods.

Bottom line is there is no real cut and dry answer to your question.
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Offline wfolarry

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2017, 08:11:36 AM »
Welding stock cranks came about because of the tin cup the MOCO puts in the stock cranks. Darkhorse doesn't like to weld the cranks. They install a solid plug in place of the tin cup that comes stock. This is what helps to hold them together.
They are the way to go if you want a crank built to spec.
S&S is a good crank. When they were running the smaller crankpin they were having problems with their flywheels. After increasing the size to the stock TC along with some other changes they are a good crank for the money. Haven't seen any go bad yet.
Don't see a lot of R&R stuff around here so I don't have an opinion on them.
The P3R crank is a nice piece but it's not in everybodys budget. They're building one for a friend of mine that races a Shovelhead.
It's all about having options.  :teeth:

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2017, 08:18:33 AM »
I'll add to that Larry, when weighing options, customer service should be considered too. John at DH has answered my emails on weekends when the situation warranted it. If it was not any problem, he would answer early Monday morning.
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: What crank to run
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
If they slip the press fit is probably the root cause. That is what S&S gets right. An off the shelf S&S crank if pushed hard will stretch the big ends of the rods and pinch the bearings. Plus now that their race shop closed there is no custom balancing. Balanced to total piston weight of 1035gm in most cases. They do have wheels forged from 4140 and heat treated which is a huge improvement over stock.

R&R cranks of late have no issues and are balanced to the pistons. They use an H-beam rod with races.
Ask Frank Drago he uses them in his NA stuff but I think the blower projects get a P3R.
 

Offline Ohio HD

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