Author Topic: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8  (Read 8939 times)

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Offline Xyzzy

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Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« on: September 08, 2016, 06:10:56 PM »
Dunno if any of you find this interesting or helpful, but -- during my 1,000 mile service today (done by me on my '17 SGS) I noted the following:

Engine Oil:
  • I drained 3 quarts and 27 ounces of oil from the engine. This includes oil from the filter. I only warmed up the engine for 5 minutes prior.
  • Unlike my old '16 RGS, rocking the bike from side-to-side did not get any more oil out. Maybe the sump is shaped better now?
  • The engine oil dip stick has 10 marks. It was at mark #5 from the factory.
  • I added exactly 4 quarts. After a 100 mile shake-down run after the change, the oil was on mark #7. (Mark #10 is the full mark.) (On my RGS I added 3 quarts because any more than that would blow a lot of oil into my air filter. 3 quarts would put me at mark #9 out of 19 on the old dipstick.)
  • The oil pressure when starting the bike back up after the change did not light the oil pressure light at all. (My RGS would flicker red for 3-4 seconds.)
  • I used Mobil 1 20W50 oil and an OEM H-D filter.
  • I never spill oil (I use aluminum foil under the oil filter) but if you do spill oil now, there is a bunch of new wires and crap for the oil to get all over.
  • My Rivco oil filter wrench would not fit. The voltage regulator is on the front in the way. I used a "normal" oil filter cap wrench. The crankcase sensor is no longer in the way.
  • The oil filter boss assembly is now part of the case. The oil cooler lines are not in the oil filter area any longer.
  • The oil dip stick is further to the rear and a bit more difficult to unscrew without getting burned a bit. It no longer has a swivelized dangly dip stick. It is a normal all-in-one deal now.
  • The oil pressure display on the infotainment screen is a "CHECK OIL" or "OK" message. I read somewhere there is a P&A deal that will restore the old pressure functionality but I haven't been able to find it. I really miss having the actual pressure readout.

Primary:
  • I drained exactly 1 quart.
  • I added exactly 1 quart.
  • The level is easier to see now via the derby cover.
  • I have a lot of Mobil 1 10W40 left over from previous motorcycles so I used that.

Transmission:
  • I drained exactly 28 ounces.
  • I added exactly 28 ounces.
  • Afterwards, the level was just at the top of the hour glass marking on the dip stick.
  • The drain is now away from the lower frame cross piece so you can drain the transmission without getting oil everywhere.
  • I have a lot of Mobil 1 75/90 gear oil so I used that.

Miscellaneous:
  • All of the prior TC torque values are the same for the M8.
  • There was a bunch of pipe dope on all 3 drain plugs. I used a thread chaser top clean them up.
  • Behind the oil cooler is a gigantic huge space for the electric fan to go if you add it. It is pre-wired for the fan. I bet you could fit an air horn down there.
  • All of the o-rings were able to be reused. The manual now tells you to reuse them if they are in good shape. Somehow the chamfer that the o-ring seats in is sized better or smoother because it is very easy to tighten the drains without messing up the o-rings. You can seat the drain fully just with finger pressure on the drain nut.
  • I am hoping I can use whole quarts for the engine, primary and transmission to keep things simple. So far the engine and primary work that way. I don't know if 4 more ounces in the transmission will cause it to blow out the vent line.

If you have any questions let me know!

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 06:19:03 PM »
Transmission drain trick using primary funnel:

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Offline 00se

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 06:43:22 PM »
I think the M-8 holds 4 1/2 quarts of oil.

Offline FloridaJim5

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 04:59:08 AM »
I think the M-8 holds 4 1/2 quarts of oil.

Probably a half quart left in the lines, cooler, etc. 

Offline koko3052

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 08:09:15 AM »
Thanks for the info Xyzzy. :up:

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 12:04:30 PM »
Good post thx. :up:

Offline les

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 01:17:30 PM »
Xyzzy, the service manual says that the primary takes 30 oz. wet.  You drained exactly a quart.  Yeah, 2 oz. is nearly nothing.  Here, I'd guess that 30 oz. is the same as 32 oz.  Your comments?  In your opinion, safe to just dump in the entire quart? 

Yes, the service manual says 28 oz. for the transmission, exactly your observed number.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 04:00:45 PM »
Xyzzy, the service manual says that the primary takes 30 oz. wet.  You drained exactly a quart.  Yeah, 2 oz. is nearly nothing.  Here, I'd guess that 30 oz. is the same as 32 oz.  Your comments?  In your opinion, safe to just dump in the entire quart?

I don't think there is a problem. The right way to fill it is with a visual check anyways.

"* Amount is approximate. Fill to bottom of pressure plate OD with vehicle upright."

On my old bike I experimented with fills from 32 to 48 ounces. (It called for 38 ounces.) The only difference I felt was easier shifting with just 32 ounces.

Here is a thread I posted with some of my questions/experiments: http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php/topic,89687

TL;DR = A quart is fine, IMO.

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Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 04:04:38 PM »
More experiments: http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php/topic,91271

Edit: Just to add a thought - I never replace the derby cover seal. I never have had a leak or problem with the seal. That said, I only have ~40K miles experience with HD bikes.

PS - I bought a big bag of o-rings to use rather than pay the dealer $1 for each one. Here is a link to some super high-quality ones: http://www.mcmaster.com/#1201T24
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:19:46 PM by Xyzzy »

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2016, 07:41:11 PM »
They didn't route the spark plug wire differently on the M8, so check your front left plug wire for chafing where it touches the fuel tank. Mine had a divot wore in it so I wrapped some electrical tape around that area.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 11:55:13 AM »
I did the 5,000 mile service today.

The good:
  • I checked the air filter. and it looked new. My '16 RG would ruin the filter with engine oil so I replaced the filter every 10,000 miles. It looks like I will be able to run this filter a lot longer.
  • The bolt to take off the air filter cover is out in the open. You don't have to pry off the badge that has that weird velcro stuff.
  • The engine oil looked much better than what I am used to seeing. My old RG would blacken the oil. I have attached a picture of the new oil below.
  • When I went to drop the oil, the level was at 3 marks out of 10. It started at 7 marks out of 10, so it used 4 marks worth of oil. I think that is reasonable. When I added exactly 4 quarts today it put the level at 5 marks out of 10.

The bad:
  • The gasket for the air filter cover is a bit fiddly to mess with.

The ugly:
  • I spilled oil from the oil filter area. I am kinda known for having a surgically clean work area so this really bummed me out. I was able to clean up the mess, but it took a while because the spilled oil got all over some of the connectors near the bottom. You know a dealer is just going to dump a pile of oil in that area so I have no idea how dirty or messed up those connectors are going to get. There is a plastic cover at the bottom that you can pop off to get to the connectors.

I'm averaging a smidge over 50 MPG at 5,000 miles. I have been riding at the speed limit (70 MPH) a lot the last few days on a long trip and the engine just loves to run at that speed.

Offline hd06

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 02:44:02 AM »
 That's great, I picked up my RGS 3 days ago average 51.6 mpg on 261 miles. This bike is great love the toque.

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 06:12:12 PM »
1300mi. KC to Phoenix had a pretty strong headwind across NM. Running 75 to 83mph. Averaged 35 mpg.

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 06:15:40 PM »
Forgot to post what I was riding. 2017 Streetglide. Had 700mi on it when I left KC.

Offline kristian

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 10:51:16 PM »
my vote is for liquimoly in all the holes, its greatest lubricant on the planet!!  Just ask bubbiebobclassicmountainmanbroke
Kris

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2016, 01:47:25 PM »
I just got back from a 2,000 mile road trip. I did the 10,000 mile maintenance today. I still spilled oil but it was less that last time because I found a few places I can stuff some shop rags to soak up the mess. The bike still runs perfectly and I have had only one tank under 50 MPG. This last trip I was at 70-75 MPH most of the time and it still came in over 50 MPG. The oil on the dip stick was on the 4th set of holes so very little oil was consumed.

Offline hd06

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2016, 11:58:31 PM »
Looking good   :up: 

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 03:26:30 PM »
I checked the air filter. and it looked new. My '16 RG would ruin the filter with engine oil so I replaced the filter every 10,000 miles. It looks like I will be able to run this filter a lot longer.

I installed a SE heavy breather yesterday. I have just under 15,000 miles on the bike. I haven't looked at the air filter since the 10,000 mile service so I was surprised to see that the lower part was drenched in oil. I don't know if this is a one-off occurrence or not, but I would check the filter every few thousand miles now, knowing this. In my opinion, at 15,000 miles, this filter is toast, and probably has been for a while.

The heavy breather still has the oil vented into the throttle body but the filter is not near that part so I expect to not see air filter contamination in the future. If you run the stock filter, the upgrade filter, the upgrade filter with the better backplate or the ventilator filter, the oil will still foul the filter if too much is vented.

FWIW, the engine looks very cool with the heavy breather installed. The stock air filter cover obscures most of the engine from sight whereas the heavy breather reveals almost all of it.

Offline mattVA

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 12:05:37 PM »
For the oil filter consider getting a "Form A Funnel" https://www.amazon.com/FORM-FUNNEL-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B017MTFIYE and punch a hole in the end of the filter to let it drain overnight. After trying everything on my Twin Cam to keep from having to clean up a mess, this is the only thing that has worked.
2009 FXDF

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2017, 12:22:11 PM »
I just bought the new overpriced official orange drain thingy.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-catcher-drain-oil-funnel-pa-12-62700199--1

I test fit it on the bike and it locks into position. Maybe it will work.

The TC version did not work well. I hope they "engineered" this one better.

I'll post a review of it in a few days when I do my 15,000 mile service.

I always nail a hole in the end of the filter to get most of the oil out prior to removing it. It makes it a lot less messy!

Offline FSG

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2017, 01:05:53 PM »
Quote
15,000 mile service.

already, your not mucking around then      :chop:

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 12:53:28 PM »
already, your not mucking around then      :chop:

I squeezed in an 18 hour IB1K (unofficial) yesterday. The weather was incredible!

:koolaid:

I just bought the new overpriced official orange drain thingy.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-catcher-drain-oil-funnel-pa-12-62700199--1

I test fit it on the bike and it locks into position. Maybe it will work.

The TC version did not work well. I hope they "engineered" this one better.

I'll post a review of it in a few days when I do my 15,000 mile service.

I always nail a hole in the end of the filter to get most of the oil out prior to removing it. It makes it a lot less messy!

The "new overpriced official orange drain thingy" is worthless. I get less mess using my aluminum foil "form-a-trough" method.

Today's 15K service went well with nothing weird to report. I ran the bike to 15,750 miles, so a bit past the scheduled service, but I am not worried about it. The drain magnet was perfectly free of metallic swarf/paste. The oil prior to changing was on the "two dot" marker on the dip stick.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »
I did my 20,000 mile service today.

Primary:
  • The primary oil (M1 10W40) looked pretty dirty with 10,000 miles on it, but the clutch works great so I will continue to do 10,000 mile intervals.
  • Since I have an AIM variable pressure clutch thingy now, the fancy orange plastic H-D funnel no longer works right.

Transmission:
  • The transmission oil (M1 75W90) was darker than I expected, but it was clear and the drain plug had only a super small bit of metallic swarf on it. Almost too small to see.
  • The gasket on the dipstick is torn a little so I will get a new one.
  • I haven't checked the level even one time until today. I figure if there isn't any oil on the garage floor then I am okay.

Engine:
  • The engine oil (M1 20W50) looked like all the previous times so I didn't take a picture of it. I don't want my wife to get upset with me using her dishes for oil pictures, either.
  • The engine only used maybe 2 dots worth of oil. I have been riding a lot at 70MPH in 5th gear so the engine is spinning happily.
  • The plug o-ring looked fine but I replaced it anyways. I think I will put new o-rings on all of the plugs every 20,000 miles.

Air filter:
  • I have switched to the SE Heavy Breather since my last service. I pulled off the elbow to look in the throttle body and everything looked great. There was a very small amount of (very clean) oil there. Since the Heavy Breather filter element is "upstream" there is no way for the oil to contaminate it. I probably will inspect the throttle body area every 20,000 miles now.

Overall, the bike runs fantastic and, I think, it runs better now than when I first got it.

Offline IA17RGU

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 07:22:38 PM »
yea..my oil filter dropped a big mess...tried to get the tin foil in there...no dice...jsut got all smushed up

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 07:51:09 PM »
I'm going to try to put a diaper under the filter next time.

Offline DTTJGlide

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2017, 05:31:28 PM »
If you're using a K&N or other with a nut on the end try cutting the bottom out of a 2lt soda container & slide that in as far as it will go. Use an extension & 17mm socket on your ratchet & I usually get almost all of the oil contained in that, dispose of filter & container.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2017, 05:42:05 PM »
The "new overpriced official orange drain thingy" is worthless. I get less mess using my aluminum foil "form-a-trough" method.

I did my 25,000 mile service today. Everything looked fine. I finally figured out how to use the expensive orange drain thingy. You have to push it in against the engine case as you unscrew the filter. You still get a few drops of mess but not much. I whack a hole in the filter and pre-drain the filter first as much as I can. The picture below shows the funnel in place with the filter removed, so you can get an idea of how it fits.

I'm getting tired of doing oil changes. I sure wish the interval was 10,000 miles!

Offline Ken R

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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2017, 06:07:05 PM »
The "new overpriced official orange drain thingy" is worthless. I get less mess using my aluminum foil "form-a-trough" method.

I did my 25,000 mile service today. Everything looked fine. I finally figured out how to use the expensive orange drain thingy. You have to push it in against the engine case as you unscrew the filter. You still get a few drops of mess but not much. I whack a hole in the filter and pre-drain the filter first as much as I can. The picture below shows the funnel in place with the filter removed, so you can get an idea of how it fits.

I'm getting tired of doing oil changes. I sure wish the interval was 10,000 miles!


I hate dribbling oil every time I change a filter.  I do a lot of oil and filter changes for friends.  Pain in the neck and a lot of brake or carb cleaner to clean the mess.   I've taken to stuffing shop paper towels under the filter carton flattened and turned into a trough and can actually be oil-drip free.  But not often.   I do like your idea of whacking a hold in the end of the filter before unscrewing it.  I threw away the orange Harley trough in frustration.  It isn't long enough and the little black tube falls off trying to get it up into place.  Grrrrr! :crook:

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2017, 08:54:49 PM »
I am thinking of trying this:

https://www.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B003V9JWHO/

I have 31,000 miles on '17 SGS #1 and 15,000 miles on '17 SGS #2.

 :oil:

Offline Ken R

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2017, 06:18:15 AM »
I am thinking of trying this:

https://www.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B003V9JWHO/

I have 31,000 miles on '17 SGS #1 and 15,000 miles on '17 SGS #2.

 :oil:
Let us know if it works.  I read the 1, 2, and 3* reviews.  They weren't encouraging.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 10:15:44 AM »
I'm up to my 19th oil change on the M8. I have altered a few things over time.

I check the transmission for migrating (lost) oil every 5,000 miles.
I run Formula+ in the transmission and primary just in case the oil migrates.
I change (and measure) the primary oil every 5,000 miles.
My initial oil amount added on an oil change is now 4 quarts and 8 ounces.
I stuff rags under the orange oil change scoop thingie and I no longer have any mess. I have attached a picture.

YMMV

Edit: 19, not 16. I forgot the 1,000 mile services.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 10:24:44 AM by Xyzzy »

Offline hd02us

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 07:07:14 AM »
I assume you are talking all fluid changes in that 19 number. How often do you change engine oil? Impressive 25,000 miles in less than a year.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 07:20:02 AM »
I change the oil every 5,000 miles.

Iíve had three M8 bikes so far with 67,500 miles total.

After looking at my notes, it is 16 oil changes, not 19.

#1 = 1 5 10 15 20 25 30
#2 = 1 5 10 15 20
#3 = 1 5 10 15

Offline Moparnut72

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 07:41:28 AM »
Holy cow, when do you sleep?   :bike:
kk
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 02:32:55 PM by Moparnut72 »
Mopar or No Car

Offline lonegoosehonking

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 09:45:37 AM »
Hell I am envious of the ride time. Since you have 67.5 k miles riding and you do your own services have you seen any oil transfer from
Transmission to Primary?

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 04:06:20 PM »
Since you have 67.5 k miles riding and you do your own services have you seen any oil transfer from
Transmission to Primary?

Bike #1: I didn't know about the problem and never noticed anything weird.

Bike #2: I noticed a little transfer because I used gear oil in the transmission and the used primary oil smelled like gear oil. I think maybe a few ounces transferred.

Bike #3: (Current bike) It hasn't transferred any yet.

Note: I ride very conservatively. I just "tour" and pile up the miles, while enjoying the scenery. I programmed my SE tuner to have a RPM limit of 4,000. I have a SE stage 1 on the bike. I use cruise control 99% of the time, even around town. I never use sixth gear. I spend the vast majority of my time at 65 MPH which is 3,020 RPM. The engine is very happy there. I might use sixth gear at 80 MPH but I haven't ridden anywhere that is legal. I've done extended running at 70 MPH (3250 RPM) and 75 MPH (3480 RPM). It's my understanding that the transfer issue is related to high-RPM operation. I don't think I'm near that point. FWIW, I'm averaging 44.27 MPG. (15595 miles using 352.301 gallons.)

YMMV

Offline dakota224

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 04:33:21 PM »
Pop a hole in the oil filter with a NAIL.. let drain, then remove,, no mess.. (pulling the dipstick helps drain faster)

Offline lonegoosehonking

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2017, 04:47:12 PM »
Since you have 67.5 k miles riding and you do your own services have you seen any oil transfer from
Transmission to Primary?

Bike #1: I didn't know about the problem and never noticed anything weird.

Bike #2: I noticed a little transfer because I used gear oil in the transmission and the used primary oil smelled like gear oil. I think maybe a few ounces transferred.

Bike #3: (Current bike) It hasn't transferred any yet.

Note: I ride very conservatively. I just "tour" and pile up the miles, while enjoying the scenery. I programmed my SE tuner to have a RPM limit of 4,000. I have a SE stage 1 on the bike. I use cruise control 99% of the time, even around town. I never use sixth gear. I spend the vast majority of my time at 65 MPH which is 3,020 RPM. The engine is very happy there. I might use sixth gear at 80 MPH but I haven't ridden anywhere that is legal. I've done extended running at 70 MPH (3250 RPM) and 75 MPH (3480 RPM). It's my understanding that the transfer issue is related to high-RPM operation. I don't think I'm near that point. FWIW, I'm averaging 44.27 MPG. (15595 miles using 352.301 gallons.)

YMMV

Thanks for the input. Great information.

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 05:42:50 PM »
I don't think I'm near that point. FWIW, I'm averaging 44.27 MPG. (15595 miles using 352.301 gallons.)

YMMV

So your Road King gets 44 MPG versus 50+ with your Road Glide?

My 2016 Limited is averaging a bit over 40 MPG with around 9,000 miles tracked. I will run 80 MPH or more at times. I have gotten 48 MPG with it a few times. It is not stock, gutted head pipe, Fulsac recore kits, TTS and my street tune.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 08:20:19 PM »

So your Road King gets 44 MPG versus 50+ with your Road Glide?

Iím measuring it by hand and not going by the computer. (The RK doesnít display MPG.)

Iíve also changed my riding habits a lot over the last year. I spend a lot more time on the highway. Back when I had the RGS I rode 55 MPH back roads mostly. And I also used sixth gear.

I think the advertised (IIRC) 45 MPG is pretty accurate.

When I first got my RGS (My first H-D) I thought 200 miles was a long ride. Now I do 1,000 mile rides in less than 24 hours frequently. (16 this year so far.)

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2017, 05:19:43 AM »
I'll admit, I'm a little jealous of your riding schedule.
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2017, 06:21:06 AM »
I donít watch TV or do Facebook, so that frees up a lot of time.

I also very rarely drive a car. I sold my Corvette recently so now my wife just has her SUV, which I detest.

My son went away to (resident) high school this year (ASMSA) so my responsibilities are much reduced.

Finally, my wife understands that my riding time is my personal time, so she is okay with it. She has no interest in going along with me so that works out well.

I think one secret to maintaining a good relationship is to not spend every minute together. That, and having separate bank accounts.

:up:

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2017, 06:35:45 AM »
Well, with those kinds of miles, she knows you have no time for an affair.
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline Scooterfish

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2017, 06:39:20 AM »
Oh he is having an affair.  A two wheeled mistress kind. :SM:
Northern Indiana

Offline IronButt70

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2017, 07:49:25 AM »
Since you have 67.5 k miles riding and you do your own services have you seen any oil transfer from
Transmission to Primary?

Bike #1: I didn't know about the problem and never noticed anything weird.

Bike #2: I noticed a little transfer because I used gear oil in the transmission and the used primary oil smelled like gear oil. I think maybe a few ounces transferred.

Bike #3: (Current bike) It hasn't transferred any yet.

Note: I ride very conservatively. I just "tour" and pile up the miles, while enjoying the scenery. I programmed my SE tuner to have a RPM limit of 4,000. I have a SE stage 1 on the bike. I use cruise control 99% of the time, even around town. I never use sixth gear. I spend the vast majority of my time at 65 MPH which is 3,020 RPM. The engine is very happy there. I might use sixth gear at 80 MPH but I haven't ridden anywhere that is legal. I've done extended running at 70 MPH (3250 RPM) and 75 MPH (3480 RPM). It's my understanding that the transfer issue is related to high-RPM operation. I don't think I'm near that point. FWIW, I'm averaging 44.27 MPG. (15595 miles using 352.301 gallons.)

YMMV
Just curious as to why you never use 6th gear?
Rollin down the road never looking back because something might be gaining on me

Offline hd02us

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2017, 11:54:59 AM »
 :missed:what state do you live in. Just curious. Stock exhaust?

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2017, 02:26:54 PM »
Just curious as to why you never use 6th gear?

A couple of reasons:

1 - The MPG is reasonable.
2 - The engine seems like it likes to be at or around 3K RPM. In 6th gear it feels very lethargic to me.
3 - I can coast through small towns at 45 MPH (2090 RPM) and cruise on the interstate at 70 MPH (3250 RPM) without having to shift.
4 - As the wind resistance gets higher as the bike goes faster, the engine power increases to match.
5 - Peak torque is at 3250 RPM so both 70 MPH (5th) and 80 MPH (6th, if I need to go that fast) are right there at the peak.

I don't think I am wearing the engine out prematurely. I posted a thread on this when I got my first HD: http://www.harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=88299

On my last two HDs I used 6th a lot to see if I liked it and it didn't "do it" for me.

If I'm wrong doing what I am doing I am willing to change. I like to learn new stuff.

what state do you live in.

Arkansas

Stock exhaust?

SE Street Cannons

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2017, 07:43:09 AM »
I don't think you are doing anything wrong running 5th gear, the motor is just fine. Pretty happy actually.
Setting your limiter to 4000 rpm's also doesn't hurt anything, but it isn't really necessary, as you don't go past it anyway. Leaving it at the stock setting would not hurt anything, the motor is made to go to there, and those extra rpm's would be available to you should you need them. Unlikely, but you never know.
Happiness does not buy money.

Offline twincamzz

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2017, 10:54:11 AM »
I'd like to thank Xyzzy for taking the time to post such detailed information...been following this thread since day one.

Offline lucasg

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2017, 05:52:21 PM »
 :hyst:
Oh he is having an affair.  A two wheeled mistress kind. :SM:
Priceless !!  :hyst:

Offline IronButt70

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2017, 07:29:50 AM »
Just curious as to why you never use 6th gear?

A couple of reasons:

1 - The MPG is reasonable.
2 - The engine seems like it likes to be at or around 3K RPM. In 6th gear it feels very lethargic to me.
3 - I can coast through small towns at 45 MPH (2090 RPM) and cruise on the interstate at 70 MPH (3250 RPM) without having to shift.
4 - As the wind resistance gets higher as the bike goes faster, the engine power increases to match.
5 - Peak torque is at 3250 RPM so both 70 MPH (5th) and 80 MPH (6th, if I need to go that fast) are right there at the peak.

I don't think I am wearing the engine out prematurely. I posted a thread on this when I got my first HD: http://www.harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=88299

On my last two HDs I used 6th a lot to see if I liked it and it didn't "do it" for me.

If I'm wrong doing what I am doing I am willing to change. I like to learn new stuff.


If it works for you that's all that matters. Here are my thoughts FWIW.
Running at higher RPMs is going to cause more wear in the long run. How much more or does it really matter is the wild card.
More RPMs mean more fuel which means more heat. How much more @70 mph is anyone's guess but there will be more to dissipate IMHO.
Mileage is not always the determining factor for engine wear. The amount of fuel put through the engine to get to x amount of miles also comes into play. You said your MPG was acceptable in 5th but it's not optimal.
All that said, if it works for you than its good. I never run below 60 mph in 6th and there are times when I will stay in 5th above that depending on conditions.
Be safe out there.
Rollin down the road never looking back because something might be gaining on me

Offline lonegoosehonking

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 03:33:30 AM »
"I run Formula+ in the transmission and primary just in case the oil migrates."


Xyzzy ,
           Did you notice any difference running the Formula + in the transmission vs. the Mobil gear oil?




Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2017, 05:31:53 AM »
I noticed no difference.

I order my Mobil 1 stuff from Pep Boys on eBay, so it is delivered to my house free.

I have to go to the dealer to get the Formula+, which is a PITA.

PS - I traded in all of my bikes and bought a Ď17 Low Rider S, so I wonít have any more data for this thread. Because it has a cable-actuated clutch I suppose I wonít have to worry about transmission oil migration either.

:wink:

Offline krwson

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2017, 06:12:43 AM »
PS - I traded in all of my bikes and bought a Ď17 Low Rider S, so I wonít have any more data for this thread. Because it has a cable-actuated clutch I suppose I wonít have to worry about transmission oil migration either.


Good idea on the trade in's, although as much as u ride your going to mis the ride of the baggers. Any up dates on the Low Rider ? 👍

Offline Will-Run

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2017, 06:30:27 AM »
For sure , lets hear up dates and thoughts on the S bike. :up:
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2017, 06:33:56 AM »
Good idea on the trade in's, although as much as u ride your going to mis the ride of the baggers. Any up dates on the Low Rider ? 👍

The LRS is more comfortable and the suspension is more compliant. I kinda miss the bags on the ďbiggerĒ bikes but so far I am dealing with it fine. I put 5,000 miles on it in the first 16 days I had it, including 1,100 miles in 19 hours, so it fits me good and makes for a great long-ride bike. It has cruise control which is a must-have feature. I donít think it is more powerful than the M8 107 but it does have a lot more low end torque and it revs much faster. Iím still using 5th gear max even though it will pull sixth at 70 MPH. It is geared higher and I donít like how the engine feels at ~2,600 RPM at 70 MPH in sixth. In fifth at 70 MPH it is turning just a smidge over 3,000 RPM. I have added a Power Vision tuner and a V&H Hi-Output 2-1 short pipe.

Offline krwson

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2017, 08:04:54 AM »
 :up: I like your plan.