Author Topic: steering damper  (Read 1277 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Hossamania

  • K1600 Owner in Training
  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15599
  • Country: us
  • No. No RoadGlides
Re: steering damper
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2018, 07:31:52 PM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
makes perfect sense

My friend's 1947 Indian has an adjustment knob on the steering head, probably because those bikes were set up to be used with or without a sidecar.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 10:26:04 PM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
makes perfect sense
sidecars pull the bike sideways

My friend's 1947 Indian has an adjustment knob on the steering head, probably because those bikes were set up to be used with or without a sidecar.

Offline JW113

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1396
  • Country: 00
  • San Jose, California
Re: steering damper
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 09:19:15 AM »
Steering dampers were an option on the Indian, I've seen a few bikes with them. I agree, I think this is more of a sidecar option.

Not that I know first hand, but know a guy who builds and installs sidecars says if the rig is set up correct, it will not pull to the side. With a sidecar mounted, the bike is tilted outward (away from sidecar) to compensate so you have a neutral steering, no pull to either side. He is also a big advocate to mount car tires on all three wheels for a sidecar set up.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Julio

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 345
  • Country: us
  • Baked, not fried
Re: steering damper
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2018, 05:27:43 PM »
Steering dampers were an option on the Indian, I've seen a few bikes with them. I agree, I think this is more of a sidecar option.

Not that I know first hand, but know a guy who builds and installs sidecars says if the rig is set up correct, it will not pull to the side. With a sidecar mounted, the bike is tilted outward (away from sidecar) to compensate so you have a neutral steering, no pull to either side. He is also a big advocate to mount car tires on all three wheels for a sidecar set up.

-JW

Even a well adjusted rig with the proper lean out, toe-in, wheel lead and level frame will need a dampner. I can run 90 mph on mine with no drift or head shake, but cross a set of railroad tracks at 20 mph, and the front end would go crazy. A VW dampner calmed everything down and is pretty standard equipment on all rigs.
As far as going dark side, tugging a tub is pretty hard on the rear tire. I never got more than 4k miles out of mine. I spun up an adapter for a 15x4 car wheel and now get a ton of miles out of the rear.


Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2018, 03:51:28 PM »
got the trike back from my hd mech who said the front was bent,one fork had different internals and was bottoming out on bumps and the damper was too short and at the wrong angle.he couldnt believe it rode it after his atempted test ride thanks all

Offline 76shuvlinoff

  • Thread Locker
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16177
  • Country: us
  • 76 FLH -93" 12 FLHTCU, 103" Michigan
Re: steering damper
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2018, 02:54:16 AM »
 :up: :up:
Being defenseless does not make you more safe.

Offline Burnout

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 924
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2018, 08:58:24 AM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/41-mm-Panhead-adjustable-rake-tripple-tree-with-tube-adjusters-chrome/253595911746

This is what I used on my three wheeler.

Any head shake will dramatically reduce the time between welding up cracks in the frame.

After installing the trees shown above the frame has not needed any crack repair in 15 years.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2018, 02:53:57 PM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/41-mm-Panhead-adjustable-rake-tripple-tree-with-tube-adjusters-chrome/253595911746

This is what I used on my three wheeler.

Any head shake will dramatically reduce the time between welding up cracks in the frame.

After installing the trees shown above the frame has not needed any crack repair in 15 years.
never seen that those parts before.my mechanic said it will steer straight now with the front alighned thank you burnout

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2018, 04:16:12 AM »
Trikes steer differently than bikes simply because they do not lean. The longer the trail the more stable the bike/trike is and the more the bike wants to keep going the direction that it is going. The shorter the trail the easier it is to turn and the less stable the bike is at speed.
On a bike you can overcome the long tail simply because you can lean the bike and force it to follow into the curve. On a trike you cant do this so on a trike that has a lot of trail it is very hard to make it turn, so trike builders will shorten the trail and add a steering damper on them to make them more stable. You can do the same thing with the steering head bearings by tightening them up and adding a dampening affect, as a mater of fact a lot of the old side car bikes had a big knob on the steering head to tighten/loosen up the head depending on the circumstances.
i talked to a well known side car racer today and said a vw beetle steering damper is the answer . bike ones are not that strong in damping.i bought one today and now have to figure out how to fit it (mounting points)thanks
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 04:22:51 AM by david lee »

Offline Burnout

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 924
  • Country: us
Re: steering damper
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2018, 11:55:29 PM »
Trikes work way different than a bike, what makes a bike stable, makes a trike unstable.

I am using a set of panhead side car trees on mine with standard rake and have no headshake or stability issues, no need for a damper.

Before, when it had a sportster front end on it, it shook so bad the frame had to be welded up once a month.

However Daves frame appears to be raked (generously).
His may not shake but just have the floppy wheel thing and obviously too much trail.

For this I would special order a Springer from Paughco and make some Sugar Bear Rockers rather than trying to make a hydraulic fork work.
This will put the steering forces at the contact patch instead of up high and off axis.
You need to accurately measure rake and calculate the trail before spec'ing the springer.
And it should not be a light weight unit.

Mounting anything but a stem type damper presents challenges and engineering compromises.
Ignoring that a damper is a bandaid for a symptom and doesn't "fix" anything.

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Julio

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 345
  • Country: us
  • Baked, not fried
Re: steering damper
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2018, 08:16:27 AM »
i talked to a well known side car racer today and said a vw beetle steering damper is the answer . bike ones are not that strong in damping.i bought one today and now have to figure out how to fit it (mounting points)thanks

Headshake on a trike or hack is a weight distribution problem, not a rake problem. That's why Triglides and Freewheelers come from the factory with steering dampners. It's cheaper and easier to install a dampner than to reposition the motor and tranny forward to weigh the front end down and increasing the rake won't solve the headshake problem.
The VW dampner will solve your problem on the cheap. Certainly less than buying and installing a heavier front end. Your sidecar racing buddy should be able to help you on the install. For my hack, I used a 2 piece shaft collar and welded a tab for the front fork anchor. You'll have to figure out where to anchor in the rear to give it full movement.


Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2018, 11:41:47 PM »
im looking at buying this one as i already have the mounting points, one being a threaded hole on the tripple trees where you have welded a bracket. where as the vw one would have to have brackets made and welded at both ends on trike.to me the vw one is very stiff damping and would make steering to hard.thanks

Offline HotRodShovel

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
  • NYC/S.FL
Re: steering damper
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 05:15:33 AM »
david, who's dampener is that?  Where did you find it?  Some info please?
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2018, 06:42:12 AM »
its item number 113046484242 on ebay.my mate whos a mc mechanic and a wizard in metal fabrication said the vw one will work perfect and will design brackets to fit and checked the damper tension and said is what is needed.i like to look for alternatives.thank you

Offline kd

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5843
  • Country: ca
Re: steering damper
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2018, 07:51:30 AM »
Have you looked at the Harley dampThey were used on the late model sidecars. Both of my 98 anniversary RK and Ultra have them and I can actually run the Ultra on the 4 lane no hands with cruise on.
KD

Offline HotRodShovel

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
  • NYC/S.FL
Re: steering damper
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2018, 01:12:53 PM »
Thanks David, I appreciate the info.  The new rebirth of my FrankenShovel will be off the lift soon and I'm anticipating the need for one.  I could be wrong and the road test will tell, but if I do Want to have my ducks in a row and get what I need.
These VW dampeners are new to me. 
thanks
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline david lee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 651
  • Country: au
Re: steering damper
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2018, 05:45:02 PM »
im looking at buying this one as i already have the mounting points, one being a threaded hole on the tripple trees where you have welded a bracket. where as the vw one would have to have brackets made and welded at both ends on trike.to me the vw one is very stiff damping and would make steering to hard.thanks
my mate is coming down today to make brackets for the vw damper. the conventional one in the photo 330mm long wont fit due to the rake lenght and restricts turning circle. a 400mm might work but still might be to short.i will update on the vw fit.i just hope its not a ugly look.thanks

Offline HotRodShovel

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
  • NYC/S.FL
Re: steering damper
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2018, 08:12:51 PM »
sometimes ugly is good.  interested to know how it all comes together. keep us filled in
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John