Author Topic: Before you Dyno tune check list  (Read 7316 times)

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Online 1FSTRK

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Before you Dyno tune check list
« on: February 10, 2011, 04:17:57 PM »
A dyno tune should only be performed on a mechanically sound motorcycle after all routine maintenance and modifications are completed.
As stated by Jds Cycle in a previous thread “Without these things in order, the tuner could be wasting his time and your money.” I went through some threads that I have read on this subject and compiled a check list of what I and others have posted on the subject.
Not everyone will agree that everything on this list must be done the day of the tune but the fresher everything is the better your results will be. I would do a lot of this myself and if you are not the DIY type having it performed by your mechanic or engine builder may be easier and cheaper than having the dyno tech do it. Either way you should discuss with the dyno operator what he will do and what you will confirm has already been done when you arrive with the bike. You may want to address some of the other things on this list before making a tuning appointment. THIS is a work in progress and will be updated with your suggestions.

The Bike
 Adjust Pushrods
 Check intake for leaks cold and hot
 Adjust throttle/idle cables make sure carb/tb opens fully
 Clean and inspect air cleaner element
 Check exhaust system for leaks or anything loose
 Confirm O2 sensors are in working order
 Check plug wire resistance
 Check sparkplug for condition and proper gap for your build
 Check primary chain adjustment
 Check clutch and cable adjustment
 Check rear drive belt/chain condition and adjustment
 Check wheels for loose spokes and that they spin freely
 Check tire condition, dry checking, tread depth, proper air pressure
 Fuel pressure test
 Cranking compression test
 Change fluids or check all for proper levels
 Fill fuel tank with pump fuel that you will regularly run
 No fuel boosters, additives or stabilizers, some of these are not O2 sensor safe
   (You don’t want to tune with something that you won’t run every day)


The dyno
 Have a sheet listing any changes from stock, A complete build sheet makes picking a
  base cal or base map much easier for the dyno operator
 Bring any cables, discs, and other equipment that is proprietary to you tuner or bike
 Make a copy of the base map in the bike before tuning
 Bring a flash drive to get a copy of your first and final run files and final tuning map
 Get printouts that show SAE corrected HP, TQ, and the run conditions as well as any
  other printouts that you may want. A gearing printout is useful for showing clutch slip
 SAE sheets will give you a hard copy for your records and can be posted on this site.
Talk with the dyno operator to find out things like:
 What brand tuners he works with as well as which he prefers and why
 If he tunes all adjustable tables in your tuning software
 If each cylinder is tuned individually (EFI)
 How he charges for the tune and if there is a time limit on your job
 How he backs his tuning work
 What system he uses to check air fuel ratio and when it was last serviced or calibrated
 How does he provide fresh air during tuning (you can’t tune on exhaust fumes)
 How does he cool the motor during tuning
 What minimum and maximum room temperature does he tune with
 What minimum and maximum head temp does he tune with
 What tire pressure does he run when tuning
 Does he monitor tire temp and what is the maximum tire temperature he allows
 Is the dyno a load dyno
 What brand and model dyno is it, what software and version, and is it the latest update

All of this might appear to be a little over kill if you just want your bike tuned and running right, but if you have a problem and have to go back or go on a different dyno somewhere having this information written down will be priceless. Later down the road if  you spend money on motor changes a baseline with this kind of data will make retuning and comparing your results easier and more accurate. All of this effort is what make a good dyno tune worth the money.


« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 03:25:41 PM by 1FSTRK »
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Offline stillhere

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 06:35:43 PM »
i put in new se plugs and wires before doing mine, figure it was best to have fresh ones in there

Offline staysick01

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 07:45:27 PM »
This is a great list, Ive been tuning for a while, and this is a great check list for everything you need to do. I have saved this page, lol. Good job.
6six6

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 07:20:15 PM »
Hey Staysick, you should pan down a little on your picture so I can see the booking number. What were you in for? :hyst: :hyst:
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Offline mayor

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 03:17:16 AM »
this is a great list, thanks for taking the time to write it down.  :up:  I think this should help a lot of folks who are new to the benefits of dyno tuning. 




Hoss, google BTK.
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 12:24:04 PM »
Mayor, knew I'd seen it before!

And your right, this is a very good list. lots of little things to check and ask of your tuner.
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Offline rob71458

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 01:03:32 PM »
One more. Does the tuner check the rear tire temps., between the many dyno pulls?
2007 SERK 124, S&S jugs,SE110 heads,640G's,11.5, 58/62 HPI,Bandit,DD7,Bzilla

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 03:28:20 PM »
One more. Does the tuner check the rear tire temps., between the many dyno pulls?

Great point. I added it to the list right after tire pressure.
Thanks
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 05:33:31 AM by 1FSTRK »
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Offline FLTRI

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 08:24:57 PM »
Guys, I trimmed what I thought was more than necessary to determine if you want to do business with a given tuner.
Take a look at this and give some feedback.

Prior to the Dyno:
1) Ask the tuner if he charges by the hour or by the finished tune, and how he backs his work. (If it's by the hour IMO you will be paying for his education)

2) What brand and model dyno is to be used. Software version on Dynojets. (Dynojet 250i is the standard for comparisons)

3) Does he tune each cylinder individually? (If not find a tuner that does)

4) Does he optimize timing? (No timing work, no job)

5) What system he uses to check air fuel ratio calibration? (If he has no way to know if what he is reading is accurate....)


At the Dyno
A complete build sheet makes picking a base cal or base map much easier for the dyno operator. (Absofriggenlutely!)

Make a copy of the base map in the bike before tuning if desired. (Or ask the tuner to do so)

Bring a flash drive to get a copy of your first and final run files and final tuning map. (Please bring a flash drive. They're great)

Get printouts that show SAE corrected HP, TQ, and the run conditions as well as any other printouts that you may want and can be posted on this site.

Always ask if you can be present and watch if there are accommodations. (Nothing like seeing where you money's going)
The best we've experienced is the best we know
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Offline Dean

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 01:05:21 AM »
Nothing like having someone watching over your shoulder while you work, never mind the liability issues.Maybe a pass or three but by the time i get part way through the pre trip most are looking for the door untill they hear some rpm.If they want to WATCH its by the hour,and we all know how much more that costs rather than flat rate. In my limited experience most will watch for a bit and then just wave and smile as they exit my dyno room and wait for my call with the happy news that there bike is tuned,checked over,washed test ridden and ready for pick up.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 04:57:44 AM »
Nothing like having someone watching over your shoulder while you work, never mind the liability issues.Maybe a pass or three but by the time i get part way through the pre trip most are looking for the door untill they hear some rpm.If they want to WATCH its by the hour,and we all know how much more that costs rather than flat rate. In my limited experience most will watch for a bit and then just wave and smile as they exit my dyno room and wait for my call with the happy news that there bike is tuned,checked over,washed test ridden and ready for pick up.

As long as the customer has the choice to see what they are paying for. The honest have nothing to hide, it's the guy that tells you there is nothing to see that you need to watch.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline mayor

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 05:49:08 AM »
Nothing like having someone watching over your shoulder while you work...Maybe a pass or three but by the time i get part way through the pre trip most are looking for the door until they hear some rpm.  If they want to WATCH its by the hour.. In my limited experience most will watch for a bit and then just wave and smile as they exit my dyno room.

As long as the customer has the choice to see what they are paying for. The honest have nothing to hide, it's the guy that tells you there is nothing to see that you need to watch.
I'm kind of torn on this. I would want to watch my tune being done, but I think that some customers just might not be able to handle the thought of some dude they don't know revving their bike up to it starts sputtering (hitting rev limit), or running it up to the higher r's and holding it there to get ve readings.  My guess is there's a whole lot of bikes that only hit 5k rpm and up on the dyno.   :wink:

I also think it keeps the value of the tune higher, if the curtain is left closed (wizard of Oz reference) .  I don't think most folks understand the investment that is required to own a dyno and to keep up to date on tuning techniques, so when they see that their tune only took X number of hours...they might feel like they didn't get their monies worth.   :nix: 
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Offline FLTRI

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 10:03:38 AM »
Guess there are those who would rather sit in the waiting room while their child is being operated on but I prefer to watch. :wink:

That way, when I get the bill for $575,000 for the surgery I feel I saw where the time went and talent came from.

Granted watching the doctor pull the organs from my child may be hard to watch, it will for sure, be something I would never forget. :dgust:

More than 90% of the folks who bring me their bike wants to learn and watch the dyno operation.

Some definitely leave after a while but most really like the explanations/education and operations to their bikes.
JME,
Bob
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:28:20 PM by FLTRI »
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Offline JohnCA58

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 10:59:40 AM »
Add, if your going to Bob (FLTRI) dyno room,  bring warm gloves and below 32 degree winter coat and you might survive  a dyno run with Bob   :hyst:  windshield factor in that dyno room is brrr cold.
YOLO

Offline Dean

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2011, 11:30:04 PM »
 To update I had a new customer stand in while I did my 0-2-5 7-10-15-20-etc on his 2003 FLTRI. I printed all samples and did my edits on paper for him to see.Then showed him how we manipulate the ve tables,re-programed  the ecm and asked he wanted to stay for the next set of samples? He respectfully declined and said "Thanks for your time.Now I know why it cost what it cost and I will make sure anyone who thinks its all magic BS will know better!"He came today to pickup his bike and final results with cash in hand knowing it was well spent!All the afr lines were straight,timing tables were manipulated to a happy place and the the fuel economy will be maximized in the Cruz zone.And not to mention the HP and TQ are at a safe useable MAX. I stand corrected about the looking over my shoulder comment because I have nothing to hide.   

Offline Dean

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 11:42:16 PM »
Sorry it was an MT-6 file:0-2-5-10-15-20-30 etc 

Offline harleytuner

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 01:43:19 PM »
We have a window to the outside in our dyno room, a large flat panel monitor hanging on the wall right in front of the dyno, the customer can watch through the window as much as they want.  On a warm day i'll open the overhead and invite people in while I make the adjustments, but not while i'm running the bike.  Too much liability. I'd hate to have a tire come apart and sh!t flying everywhere with a customer in there.  Let alone have an engine scatter.  I don't think the insurance guy would be too happy.

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Offline FLTRI

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 05:32:04 PM »
Bob,
I called you at RC today, and left a message, and they said you were in the dyno room.
If you called, we were dyno tuning today as well.
107" Big Dog, with V&H big Radius, Dyna 2000i, T/jetted G, Wood 8, our heads.
SAE'd at 121 hp/120 ft lbs.
Not bad for a couple of old, blind, white guys. :teeth:
Scott
While you were tuning that I was tuning an 07RG with S&S106 kit w/their heads -.010, S&S585 cams w/SE50mm TB. Supermeg w/open end cap and 18 discs
SAE'd at 125hp/126tq. (v-tuned with usual manual trimming and left idle in open loop due to EGR issues with exhaust)
Not bad for an off the shelf build. Not bad for a 106" :nix:
Good air day. :up:
Bob
PS - PM'd you my contact number.
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Offline mr_natural78

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 09:23:27 AM »
Great thread. Planning to get my bike put on the dyno in a few weeks....as soon as the temps get a little higher here.
2000 FXDX, 113ci, HTCC CNC heads, 116hp/127tq

Offline skypilot_one

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2013, 06:50:00 AM »
What is the price range for a tune?

Offline Olivepearl

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 08:05:33 PM »
I have questions about the Bike Check list. How would you check for fluid leaks, intake leaks, exhaust leaks, compression test, and heat cycles on a fuel injected bike without some sort of map that is close to your specific build. The reason I ask is because I will be finishing my build in a few weeks headed for a tune and the tuner is 8+hrs away. Can you heat cycle with a PV map for a SE Breather and a D&D pipe?

Robert

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 06:14:59 AM »
If you are traveling 8 hrs to a tuner you have probably researched him and found he is worth the trip. Call him and ask if he wants you to fire the motor to check for leaks or heat cycle before you show up. If so ask if he can supply a map or suggest one. Each tuner is a little different, the guy I use would prefer I just crank it through to get the oil returning to the tank and check for leaks, cycling the key will tell if there is a fuel leak or not, and wait to fire it when it is on the dyno with everything hooked up.
 
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Offline Templer

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2014, 02:33:15 PM »
FLTRI: Can you tell me why the 07 you tuned has a -.010 done to the heads? If my completed S&S 106 with there cnc job and suggested .030 HG,-.007 deck,58mm SE TB (4.9 inj),635HO cams,83cc heads. Cam specs call for 10.2 to 10.8:1. Decked to -.003, .030HG,83cc heads i get 10.6:1. Was it to get to the upper 10.8:1. What was the CCP on this motor? I HAVE NOT CHECKED the CCP YET. Mine should be 195psi (10,5:1 static) IF several calculator are correct. The CCP WAS NOT TAKEN by parts assembler OR by tuner!!

Offline Templer

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2014, 09:25:33 AM »
In addition to questions asked about Dyno from the list that started this post. When was the last time the TRQ cell was ZERO calibrated?( manual 98118103.02)? Does it match the stamping on the arm (near the bolts)? Should be 250 to 260 ft lbs. This IS LIST TO BE CHECKED REGULARLY! No time frame given in manual thu. This would give false reading to graph. Most units are left in default mode on set up!! Prints black lines.smoothing (you get it on most set to 5) etc. How would you like to pay $4.00 per gallon for gas and know that the tech was not performing the correct service checks on the dispenser. Try blended fuel that is programed by the installer/tech and NOT WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!
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Offline Templer

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Re: Before you Dyno tune check list
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 09:06:50 AM »
Now with the common cell phone holding MOVIES taken from the phone ,Take make a movie while they are tuning your bike. Lets say they run it PAST the 6.2k RPM limit that most set and they tell ya "I did not" ya have it in the phone. I myself will be bring a 1 hr tape with a old school 8mm recorder to my next tune. FULL list per this forum and PROOF after all is completed!!