Author Topic: Heads On An EVO  (Read 1033 times)

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Offline WhipLash96

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Heads On An EVO
« on: December 10, 2017, 05:54:42 PM »
Since I am fairly new to the world of EVO's, I am curious what some of the more popular head set ups that people run on them? I am helping a friend do his 98 Wide Glide. We decided that we are going to use the EV 27 but put some compression behind it and open up the ports a bit. Ideas would be Awesome!  :pop:
Thanks,
Whip

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 06:02:14 PM »
Opinions-
If you are going to buy a cam get a bigger one then that one.
Same money, why not?
If you are going to pull the heads, do a multi-angle valve job and put in larger intakes.
Put the Hipo springs in now, as the heads are off
Its a slippery slope----I am more than 1/2 way dwn it.. I hope
I always tell people
"Don't throw parts at any engine, rather what is it you want to be as the end product, and work it from that angle or you will spend money over and over again."
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 06:22:11 PM »
Opinions-
If you are going to buy a cam get a bigger one then that one.
Same money, why not?
If you are going to pull the heads, do a multi-angle valve job and put in larger intakes.
Put the Hipo springs in now, as the heads are off
Its a slippery slope----I am more than 1/2 way dwn it.. I hope
I always tell people
"Don't throw parts at any engine, rather what is it you want to be as the end product, and work it from that angle or you will spend money over and over again."

Agreed, I suppose I could put a different cam in it but my friend starts to get nervous with higher lifts as he does not have a lot of money to throw around on his bike. I am looking to do a nice upgraded build for him, one that he will enjoy for a long time. The end game on this project is not to be the fastest M-effer in town.  :teeth:

Edit: That and since we ride a lot together, I know his riding style and the EV27 is the better fit for his riding style.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 06:32:52 PM by WhipLash96 »
Thanks,
Whip

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 06:32:58 PM »
Then the end detail is his budget.
Have a talk with him.
I know for sure there are bigger cams than that one that will "bolt in".
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 06:34:32 PM »
Then the end detail is his budget.
Have a talk with him.
I know for sure there are bigger cams than that one that will "bolt in".

See above edit.
Thanks,
Whip

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 07:16:17 PM »
My advice would be to talk to some of the head porters here, and get their take on what they can do. Establishing a budget is the first order of business. Then, get your friend to be honest about what exactly he wants his motor to do, or how he wants to ride it.
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Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 07:23:40 PM »
My advice would be to talk to some of the head porters here, and get their take on what they can do. Establishing a budget is the first order of business. Then, get your friend to be honest about what exactly he wants his motor to do, or how he wants to ride it.

Already done Hoss. :wink: Won't send the heads anywhere here in Minnesota though.
Thanks,
Whip

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 07:45:25 PM »
My advice would be to talk to some of the head porters here, and get their take on what they can do. Establishing a budget is the first order of business. Then, get your friend to be honest about what exactly he wants his motor to do, or how he wants to ride it.

Already done Hoss. :wink: Won't send the heads anywhere here in Minnesota though.

By "here", I meant here on HTT. Though, Ward heads has a good rep.
A popular tactic was to just mill .050" off the heads, run the 27. If he isnt into hot rodding and higher rpms, porting might not be worth the money, but a good valve job and clean up may be.
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Why? Girl, look at this body!

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 04:02:25 AM »
Yep.
-.050, -.060 and a .030" gasket.(10.0 cr piston is much better)
Check guide/stem fitment, if all is well, re-gring the valves, and establish a precision muti-angle valve job, new seals, and check the springs.......probably like bubble gum.
Install a set of beehives......ride.
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Online Rsw

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 04:30:46 AM »
Check with Matt at MCE hes a vendor here and does very nice work on Evo heads

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 06:31:59 AM »
Opinions-
If you are going to buy a cam get a bigger one then that one.
Same money, why not?
If you are going to pull the heads, do a multi-angle valve job and put in larger intakes.
Put the Hipo springs in now, as the heads are off
Its a slippery slope----I am more than 1/2 way dwn it.. I hope
I always tell people
"Don't throw parts at any engine, rather what is it you want to be as the end product, and work it from that angle or you will spend money over and over again."

Agreed, I suppose I could put a different cam in it but my friend starts to get nervous with higher lifts as he does not have a lot of money to throw around on his bike. I am looking to do a nice upgraded build for him, one that he will enjoy for a long time. The end game on this project is not to be the fastest M-effer in town.  :teeth:

Edit: That and since we ride a lot together, I know his riding style and the EV27 is the better fit for his riding style.

For my part, i do not understand your observations.
The throttle dictates the riding style.
The cam dictates the performance.
If you are going to buy a cam buy all you can fit in (up to a point).
Its the same money
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 07:43:20 AM »
An AV&V 1.900" valve on the intake side, helps also.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Not all lemons, are yellow......"

Offline JW113

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 08:30:27 AM »
I'm guessing that "riding style" means the guy don't wind the motor out to redline at every stoplight? More of 2K to 4K 90% of the time kind of riding style? If that is the case, then yes EV-27 and a basic valve job will be fine for him, lots of torque in that range with a mild cam and a little more compression ratio.

-JW  (who is doing essentially the same thing with his Evo...)
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
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Offline Burnout

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 08:46:15 AM »
^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

The big cam - big valve - stiff spring deal is the slippery slope, also leads to a decrease in reliability and poor low RPM performance.

EVO's have bigger valves and ports than a twinkie.

I would cut the cylinders to bring the pistons all the way up (improve sqwish)
An EV27 or FB310 (or similar) cam, a good 2:1 exhaust, bless the carb and hang a SE or Heavy Breather filter for a huge improvement over stock and reliability will not suffer.
It will be docile and will pull hard, you will be surprised at how fast it is!
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »
A 1.900" intake valve works well. :smile:
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Not all lemons, are yellow......"

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 01:19:10 PM »
Opinions-
If you are going to buy a cam get a bigger one then that one.
Same money, why not?
If you are going to pull the heads, do a multi-angle valve job and put in larger intakes.
Put the Hipo springs in now, as the heads are off
Its a slippery slope----I am more than 1/2 way dwn it.. I hope
I always tell people
"Don't throw parts at any engine, rather what is it you want to be as the end product, and work it from that angle or you will spend money over and over again."

Agreed, I suppose I could put a different cam in it but my friend starts to get nervous with higher lifts as he does not have a lot of money to throw around on his bike. I am looking to do a nice upgraded build for him, one that he will enjoy for a long time. The end game on this project is not to be the fastest M-effer in town.  :teeth:

Edit: That and since we ride a lot together, I know his riding style and the EV27 is the better fit for his riding style.

Stick to your plan, as stated by many here the 27 with a little head work and the right compression really makes a great combo in a Evo.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 04:08:26 PM »
Opinions-
If you are going to buy a cam get a bigger one then that one.
Same money, why not?
If you are going to pull the heads, do a multi-angle valve job and put in larger intakes.
Put the Hipo springs in now, as the heads are off
Its a slippery slope----I am more than 1/2 way dwn it.. I hope
I always tell people
"Don't throw parts at any engine, rather what is it you want to be as the end product, and work it from that angle or you will spend money over and over again."

Agreed, I suppose I could put a different cam in it but my friend starts to get nervous with higher lifts as he does not have a lot of money to throw around on his bike. I am looking to do a nice upgraded build for him, one that he will enjoy for a long time. The end game on this project is not to be the fastest M-effer in town.  :teeth:

Edit: That and since we ride a lot together, I know his riding style and the EV27 is the better fit for his riding style.

Stick to your plan, as stated by many here the 27 with a little head work and the right compression really makes a great combo in a Evo.
:up: Will do. Thanks
Thanks,
Whip

Offline FSG

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 04:40:08 PM »
In January I'll be putting an EV27 into a Stock '97 Heritage    :chop:

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2017, 03:51:01 AM »
FWIW, a Wood 6 at 10.0 cr in an Evo, is a VERY GOOD combination.
With headwork, S&S E with a T/jet, Dyna 2000i, tuned at Rosa's... 86 hp/94 ft/lbs.
An Andrews #3 will be near that also.
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Offline EVOKing94

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 06:47:57 PM »
You can't go wrong with any advise Scott gives you on an EVO.  Very knowledgeable stand up guy.  I put 9926 miles on his stage 2 top end this year and bike runs real good.  Used to feel strained and working over 75mph before and now feels like it is idling at 70-80-90 it don't care.  Very smooth and good mileage also.  Bike doesn't leak or use any oil.  Doesn't like to be lugged down low like the SE4 cam could that was in there but that's the only trade off.  May try a Supertrapp 2-1 and Mikuni to gain some low end in the future.

Dyno numbers mean very little to me on the road.  Quality of power is more important.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 04:31:43 AM »
In January I'll be putting an EV27 into a Stock '97 Heritage    :chop:

Are you just doing the cam (stage two) or will there be other work?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2017, 02:48:35 PM »
You can't go wrong with any advise Scott gives you on an EVO.  Very knowledgeable stand up guy.  I put 9926 miles on his stage 2 top end this year and bike runs real good.  Used to feel strained and working over 75mph before and now feels like it is idling at 70-80-90 it don't care.  Very smooth and good mileage also.  Bike doesn't leak or use any oil.  Doesn't like to be lugged down low like the SE4 cam could that was in there but that's the only trade off.  May try a Supertrapp 2-1 and Mikuni to gain some low end in the future.

Dyno numbers mean very little to me on the road.  Quality of power is more important.

I agree but I am under some heavy budget constraints, and I have already committed to someone to do the work.
Thanks,
Whip

Offline WhipLash96

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 03:05:51 PM »
Here is something that I just thought of that may be an issue. When I mill the heads down, is that going to screw up the alignment for the intake manifold?
Thanks,
Whip

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2017, 03:23:57 PM »
Here is something that I just thought of that may be an issue. When I mill the heads down, is that going to screw up the alignment for the intake manifold?

The Evo manifolds were a little short from the factory, If you take a lot off you will need to also take the proper amount from the intake flange surface or buy a shorter manifold. It is not as tight room wise compared to EFI throttle bodies. Just check it first and you should not have a problem.
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Offline FSG

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 04:14:43 PM »
In January I'll be putting an EV27 into a Stock '97 Heritage    :chop:

Are you just doing the cam (stage two) or will there be other work?

would like to cut the heads 50 and a clean but constrained by the owners $$$ so it'll just be cam, lifters & PRs

maybe more further down the track   :scoot:

Offline JW113

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 05:43:08 AM »
Here is something that I just thought of that may be an issue. When I mill the heads down, is that going to screw up the alignment for the intake manifold?

Nope. .050" will not affect intake alignment or seal. In fact, the machine shop that did mine told me that he has had many police bikes through his shop, and observed they are milled .050" from the factory.

-JW
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Offline thumper 823

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 07:34:49 AM »
At least count  i had near .075 off mine plus some of bottom of jugs.
No problems .
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:59:36 AM by thumper 823 »
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Offline 94wideglide

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 09:50:21 AM »
In January I'll be putting an EV27 into a Stock '97 Heritage    :chop:

I just rebuilt my 94 FXDWG last year with 48,000 and the only thing we used over was the EV27. It really liked a little added compression and head work.

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 04:19:23 AM »
Here is something that I just thought of that may be an issue. When I mill the heads down, is that going to screw up the alignment for the intake manifold?

When you take X, from the head surface, you need to take Y from the intake flange pad.
S/E heads are machined in that area, and are -.060" less than the OE dimension of 3.750".
In a Goodson fixture, and in a milling vise, you simply indicate that surface with a universal test indicator, lock the vise, touch off, "0", and make the appropriate cuts.
Easy, peasy.
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Offline barrybasinger

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »
At least count  i had near .075 off mine plus some of bottom of jugs.
No problems .
That's good, but lest the OP think that's to be expected in all situations: Common problems (valve-to-piston or piston-to-head contact) are usually related to things like cam TDC specs and/or assembly and manufacturing tolerances. We recently repaired an Evo with a little over .086 off (total heads and jugs), and .030 gaskets, and saw evidence of slight contact at valve surface. (Very slight, fortunately. The owner was not even aware of it, it was so slight). Also, one time I lost a pin clip and had to replace the pistons on my 96" (82cc chambers, .030 gaskets, .059 (?; don't remember for sure) off jugs, zero deck double-checked & confirmed). Used same very well-respected manufacturer and part number, and they stuck out of the jugs just a little too much. (Double base gaskets made that okay. Yeah, I know, but it's worked fine for 3 years now).

Point of all this for those who are kinda new to this is--one-more-time--it's better to make conservative choices unless you have confirmed all the numbers and pretty much know what you're doing.

Offline Scott P

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Re: Heads On An EVO
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2017, 09:43:52 AM »
If a man is pulling the trigger in his garage at home, on a hot-rod upgrade, he needs to be fully aware of many aspects.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Not all lemons, are yellow......"