Author Topic: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!  (Read 2155 times)

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Offline codyshop

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Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« on: December 15, 2017, 03:04:38 PM »
2005 Heritage with 22K miles.   Hellacious noise coming from bottom end and after trying everything else, split the cases.   Balance chain cut through the entire plastic to the metal base...


Offline codyshop

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 03:06:44 PM »
 :emoGroan: pictures not working...give me a second

Offline codyshop

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 03:11:05 PM »

Online fbn ent

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 03:30:51 PM »
 :dgust:  WOW!! How many Softails are going to need this fix soon?  :turd:  Good news for the shops that can or want to do it $$$$.
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Offline Armin

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »
Replace them, and change the pistons and the bearings too.

Armin.
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Offline PoorUB

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 03:47:35 PM »
It is not the first one with relatively low miles that has been discussed here, but it has been a while!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline wolf_59

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 04:57:20 PM »
Pretty messed up! Ken R did one a couple years ago a lot higher mileage, I ride a 04 Fatboy with almost 3 times that mileage without having to deal with this yet but I know it is coming lol maybe time to sell it and buy a side car for the Ultra

Offline prodrag1320

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 04:27:58 AM »
guides have been pretty worn on every "B" motor ive ever done

Offline mrmike

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2017, 07:33:20 AM »
Kinda puts the cam chain tensioner issue into a whole lot lighter weight class.

Mike
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Offline koko3052

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2017, 07:45:42 AM »
Replace them, and change the pistons and the bearings too.

Armin.

Why do you say that? Yes to the guides, but it's obvious that the pistons are working fine & the bearings are very robust, & basically running in oil, for what they're doing. :scratch:

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 08:46:12 AM »
A friend went through this last year, the counterbalancers shifted, the guides were worn, split the cases and many dollars later back on the road. Bike had about 30,000 miles on an '01.
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Offline C#

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2017, 08:56:59 AM »
I had 92k on mine when I got tired of the numerous 'worn out' issues on mine but the counterbalance shoes never went out. A cam journal was shot along with the cam chain tensioner shoes at 35k so I did a cam upgrade and went to hydraulic cam tenioners. A 92k the clutch was frozen together and I didn't ride hard. I got a trade on my bike for an RK with low miles for the same difference as a new engine/tranny rebuild combo would have been so I went that route. Now I wish I had bought a used wide glide too.

Offline codyshop

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2017, 09:26:19 AM »
...the counterbalancers shifted...

Chain jump a sprocket?

Online ThumperDeuce

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2017, 09:52:34 AM »
I really liked Victories idea of a gear driven counterbalancer.
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2017, 10:34:19 AM »
...the counterbalancers shifted...

Chain jump a sprocket?

I'm not sure, but it is possible. I wasn't sure if they shifted on the shaft or the chain skipped. I just know he had a bit of an ordeal.
At the same time, he had compression releases installed, but the guy didn't flip the jig and drilled one in the wrong spot, welded it up, and said good to go. Yeah, no. He got a new head out of the deal after much discussion.
New shop for the next service....
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Offline jeffscycle

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 10:49:46 AM »
:dgust:  WOW!! How many Softails are going to need this fix soon?  :turd:  Good news for the shops that can or want to do it $$$$.

   YUP! Twin cams are good for BIZ, only thing is the value of the bikes are shrinking, compared to the repair if its catastrophic. the OL's '08 FLST is at 50k, and I'm wondering how long I got until the dirty deed.
'01 FXDXT, '99 FXDL/XRD, '76 FLH

Offline koko3052

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2017, 11:43:18 AM »



Could you post some pics from the sides of these guides please. I don't see anywhere where these are worn thru. The long (bottom guide) looks to be the same thickness all along. Hard to tell on the pivoting guides.Thx.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2017, 11:56:29 AM »
My 04 has 135K, the only thing that has been done is a cam chest freshen/update at 80K and another set of lifters at 120K.

I don't know what worn CB slides sounds like but recently it has started making an engine rpm related whirring sound,  not very loud and seems to get more noticeable after the engine is up to operating temp.  At first I thought it was only with clutch engaged but it's there clutch in or out,  just seems to be more noticeable when engine is under decal load.

I'm going to look at the hydraulic cam chain tensioners (hybrid kit) as they have 55K on them but they looked ok at 40K.  Also considered the primary chain adjuster pad as it's the original.  May be a bearing on it's way out.

Ideas?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:53:01 PM by 04 SE DEUCE »

Offline Karl H.

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2017, 02:43:41 PM »
... I don't see anywhere where these are worn thru ...

 :agree:


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Offline Scott P

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 09:41:03 AM »
2005 Heritage with 22K miles.   Hellacious noise coming from bottom end and after trying everything else, split the cases.   Balance chain cut through the entire plastic to the metal base...


Very common to see those well worn.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline rbabos

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 11:26:47 AM »
When I did a 113 new shoes were installed. At 6k to do the 120 the 113 shoes looked just like the stock 96 did at about 25k. I think the outer areas of the chain bed in fast then once the roller area comes in contact with the shoe, just about all wear stops. I've only read about one case where the lower long shoe wore to the state the chain was rubbing the aluminum bridge. The uppers could I suppose eventually wear to the point where the tensioner could poke through but that would take more miles then the rest of the engine would last. The shoes in the op post almost look normal to me. General life span is in the 100k range from all the digging I've done.
Ron

Offline Karl H.

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 12:12:57 PM »
 :up:
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Offline norcal

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2017, 12:41:17 PM »
My 04 has 135K, the only thing that has been done is a cam chest freshen/update at 80K and another set of lifters at 120K.

I don't know what worn CB slides sounds like but recently it has started making an engine rpm related whirring sound,  not very loud and seems to get more noticeable after the engine is up to operating temp.  At first I thought it was only with clutch engaged but it's there clutch in or out,  just seems to be more noticeable when engine is under decal load.

I'm going to look at the hydraulic cam chain tensioners (hybrid kit) as they have 55K on them but they looked ok at 40K.  Also considered the primary chain adjuster pad as it's the original.  May be a bearing on it's way out.

Ideas?

Offline norcal

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 12:48:13 PM »
Sorry I hit the button before my reply. You mention whirring sound that changes with RPMís. Iím going back 10 plus years but my early 05 nighttrain did that and it was one of the bearings for the balancers that are pressed into the block.

Offline Timinator

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2017, 05:58:04 PM »
Same deal as early cam chain tensioners. Synthetic oil. I've seen all of the tensioners go 80k+ with synthetic. Also seen them gone at 15k with dino oil and long change intervals. How do you ride and maintain seems to be the deal. Synthetic is cheaper than labor rate IMHO.   TIMINATOR
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