Author Topic: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!  (Read 2101 times)

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Offline Scott P

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2017, 03:47:41 AM »
Root of the matter is, that it all depends on how burr-free the chain links are, at the point of install, on both the cam shoes, and balance shoes.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2017, 08:58:22 AM »
 :agree:  That, and heat- bikes that had temperature reduction mods (better breathing + carb rejet/tuned) seemed to have cam chain tensioners last longer than the ones in all stock setups.

Offline sfmichael

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2017, 12:23:05 PM »
:agree:  That, and heat- bikes that had temperature reduction mods (better breathing + carb rejet/tuned) seemed to have cam chain tensioners last longer than the ones in all stock setups.

interesting - I hadn't considered that  :scratch:

thanks  :up: :up:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline rbabos

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2017, 08:59:00 AM »
:agree:  That, and heat- bikes that had temperature reduction mods (better breathing + carb rejet/tuned) seemed to have cam chain tensioners last longer than the ones in all stock setups.

interesting - I hadn't considered that  :scratch:

thanks  :up: :up:
Oil temp is the main consideration as it's the cooling factor on the pressure points for shoe and chain. Mind you 9/10 times the tune drops oil temps too.
Ron

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2017, 09:34:49 AM »
Heat and several other things have been speculated as to chain tensioner wear,  guys that see results in numbers may see a pattern. 

I live in a hot climate and even though the bike doesn't make any HP it still makes heat,  sustained highway speed on a hot day registers 235-255 on analog dipstick,  have seen 265.  Syn3 first 40K, Red Line last 95K,  all with no oil cooler.  I guess I have an anomaly,  original cam chain tensioners when 80K,  only engine work has been to freshen the cam chest,  135K currently.

Offline rbabos

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2017, 10:08:50 AM »
Heat and several other things have been speculated as to chain tensioner wear,  guys that see results in numbers may see a pattern. 

I live in a hot climate and even though the bike doesn't make any HP it still makes heat,  sustained highway speed on a hot day registers 235-255 on analog dipstick,  have seen 265.  Syn3 first 40K, Red Line last 95K,  all with no oil cooler.  I guess I have an anomaly,  original cam chain tensioners when 80K,  only engine work has been to freshen the cam chest,  135K currently.
Fair enough. If the stock 07s never melted the shoes out, nothing will. I've seen as high as 300* the odd time on Amsoil.  250 was the cold end of temps for that bitch. 230 was the norm for the 113 and 120ci, seldom hitting 250 in worst conditions.
Ron
Ron

Offline Karl H.

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2017, 10:52:02 PM »
Root of the matter is, that it all depends on how burr-free the chain links are, at the point of install, on both the cam shoes, and balance shoes.

That cause is what my statistics point to as well.
1. The tensioner wear with the early design is significantly dependend on the model year (worst 2002-2003).
2. The tensioner live improves significantly with an older (broken in) cam chain.

Karl
Dyna Wide Glide '03, Softail Deluxe '13, Street Glide '14, Sportster 883R '15

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2017, 09:58:36 AM »
Root of the matter is, that it all depends on how burr-free the chain links are, at the point of install, on both the cam shoes, and balance shoes.

That cause is what my statistics point to as well.
1. The tensioner wear with the early design is significantly dependend on the model year (worst 2002-2003).
2. The tensioner live improves significantly with an older (broken in) cam chain.

Karl

Yes worn smoother is no doubt better but worn/stretched will wrap the tensioner pad more and cause accelerated/irregular wear.  I replaced the inner chain with new when I installed a hybrid kit at 80K as the inner chain was stretched.

There is a reason most better V8 builds/rebuilds use a true roller chain...and Harley calls for chain replacement.

Offline Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2017, 02:24:24 PM »
https://youtu.be/uZYkxOicqA0
I attribute this to the Florida heat and the old style spring tenteners and there tendency to pit/ flake out
Steve
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Offline CVOThunder

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2017, 11:19:33 PM »
Watched an engine rebuild video off Amazon and I think it was SB Charlie who did the video. Been awhile since I watched. He mentioned polishing the chain but not sure how. I'd be concerned about getting the polishing media out of the chain but maybe a good washing would take care of that. Thinking cotton polishing wheels, rouge and time.
2015 FLTRXS Denim, 2011.5 CVO Ultra, 2007 Softail Custom FXSTC

Offline Karl H.

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2017, 12:06:18 AM »
Watched an engine rebuild video off Amazon and I think it was SB Charlie who did the video. Been awhile since I watched. He mentioned polishing the chain but not sure how. I'd be concerned about getting the polishing media out of the chain but maybe a good washing would take care of that. Thinking cotton polishing wheels, rouge and time.

https://www.fixmyhog.com/video/polishing-harley-cam-chain-003270/
Dyna Wide Glide '03, Softail Deluxe '13, Street Glide '14, Sportster 883R '15

Offline Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2017, 05:42:00 AM »
Watched an engine rebuild video off Amazon and I think it was SB Charlie who did the video. Been awhile since I watched. He mentioned polishing the chain but not sure how. I'd be concerned about getting the polishing media out of the chain but maybe a good washing would take care of that. Thinking cotton polishing wheels, rouge and time.

It is very easy to polish them, I use a cotton spital seen wheel, and rouge.

Clean it in gas after, wash it in hot water, then soak it in oil before installing. You just need to knock off the sharp edges.
Steve
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Online TXHogrider

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2018, 09:06:05 AM »
Heat and several other things have been speculated as to chain tensioner wear,  guys that see results in numbers may see a pattern. 

I live in a hot climate and even though the bike doesn't make any HP it still makes heat,  sustained highway speed on a hot day registers 235-255 on analog dipstick,  have seen 265.  Syn3 first 40K, Red Line last 95K,  all with no oil cooler.  I guess I have an anomaly,  original cam chain tensioners when 80K,  only engine work has been to freshen the cam chest,  135K currently.
Fair enough. If the stock 07s never melted the shoes out, nothing will. I've seen as high as 300* the odd time on Amsoil.  250 was the cold end of temps for that bitch. 230 was the norm for the 113 and 120ci, seldom hitting 250 in worst conditions.
Ron
Ron

04 SE DEUCE, I think we both have anomalies.  My 2005 Softail Deluxe is stock engine, with only mod being true duals with fish tails and HD flash.  It has 89k miles with original cam tensioners and counter balance tensioners.  All my miles have been in New Orleans and in the Fort Worth area, so I see lots of hot weather as well.  I don't flog my engine hard and religiously change all three oils and the filter @ 5k intervals.  I actually used Rotella T diesel engine 15W-40 for about the first 50k miles, but have switched to Mobil1.  My engine makes lots of noise and I still ride it to work.  I know I am on borrowed time, but if it fails, well then I'll just build it bigger and better.

Offline koko3052

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2018, 09:22:23 AM »
For 30 bucks for Cyco pads & a little time you would do well to get into that camchest. If something lets loose there won't be anything left to build bigger.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2018, 11:08:46 AM »
04 SE DEUCE, I think we both have anomalies.  My 2005 Softail Deluxe is stock engine, with only mod being true duals with fish tails and HD flash.  It has 89k miles with original cam tensioners and counter balance tensioners.  All my miles have been in New Orleans and in the Fort Worth area, so I see lots of hot weather as well.  I don't flog my engine hard and religiously change all three oils and the filter @ 5k intervals.  I actually used Rotella T diesel engine 15W-40 for about the first 50k miles, but have switched to Mobil1.  My engine makes lots of noise and I still ride it to work.  I know I am on borrowed time, but if it fails, well then I'll just build it bigger and better.

For 30 bucks for Cyco pads & a little time you would do well to get into that camchest. If something lets loose there won't be anything left to build bigger.

I'm with koko,  At your mileage I'd be doing some maintenance.  Mine were in need of replacement at 67K prior to a trip but didn't get to them until 80K, by then the inner was cracked and getting ready to let go.  I think 40-50K is max for most early tensioners.

Offline fbn ent

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2018, 12:27:06 PM »
 I've seen them need replacing at 37K miles along with spalled cam / bearings.
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Offline neale

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2018, 12:48:46 AM »
That sucks.
My 08 FLHT did 70,000 kms when I decided to have a look. Still serviceable then but over 3/4 of the way worn through.

Offline itsafatboy

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Re: Holy counterbalancer chain tensioners, Batman!
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2018, 05:39:08 PM »
ya those look normal to me , new ones will wear down to that spot anyway , so