Author Topic: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions  (Read 3131 times)

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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2017, 05:22:48 PM »
The difference between Harley and mueller is after you loosen the adjuster rod and turn in until it just grabs,you than turn it back out 1/8 turn. The harley is 1/2 to 3/4

How does one determine what 1/8th of a turn is? Its easy to determine 1/2 a turn or 3/4

Counter clockwise from bottom. Use the screw slot as an indicator.

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Offline Jim Bronson

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2017, 05:38:45 PM »
I'm planning to report the clutch rod movement with the Muller. Is it done with the engine warm or cold? Does it matter?
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Offline klammer76

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2017, 06:52:44 PM »
I'm planning to report the clutch rod movement with the Muller. Is it done with the engine warm or cold? Does it matter?
I would do it cold first as that will be the max measurement. As the bike gets hot, things expand, that is why the Muller is adjusted on the tight side cold as compared to the factory manual. You can check it hot or warm after to see what the difference is if any.

I have an unheated garage, with temps currently at zero outside and in the 20's inside, I think the oil sticks to the plates more in the extreme cold as opposed to when the garage is 70* f in the summer. Hard part is mounting the magnetic base and getting the indicator over to the center of the clutch (at least for me and my base). I recently fabed up some metal stock that is held under the bike against the frame rails with my scissor jack to mount the mag base to. Too cold to even think about going out there now  :angry:

Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2017, 07:04:19 PM »
Quote
I would do it cold first as that will be the max measurement. As the bike gets hot, things expand, that is why the Muller is adjusted on the tight side cold as compared to the factory manual.

 :up:

Offline smoserx1

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2017, 05:06:00 AM »
Quote
not understanding how adjustment is any different than the Harley piece.

Think of it as a pry bar or a lever.  Move your pivot point in closer to the load and the easier it is to pry, but the less it lifts your load.  Easy pull (less  angle)ramps move the clutch  stack less using the same lever pull thus making the pull easier.  The clutch adjustment however becomes less forgiving because there is a greater chance your adjustment will not separate the plate stack enough to get good separation, resulting in  residual drag, which causes the bike to tend  to creep even when the clutch is pulled in and makes finding neutral harder when the engine is running.

Offline hotrodshovel

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2017, 05:20:32 AM »
a 45* rotation of the nut/wrench would be 1/8th of a turn.
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2017, 09:31:38 AM »
So, how about the new Softails? The clutch pull is quite a bit lighter than my '16. Did they come up with something different or is there going to be a limited amount of release? I haven't ridden one so no personal experience.
kk
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Offline Ohio HD

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Offline Bagger

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2017, 01:04:46 PM »
Is there anyone on HTT that can machine a Muller for the Baker throwout bearing for me?

Offline No Cents

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2017, 01:10:02 PM »
 Just Nick did mine for me.
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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2017, 01:25:33 PM »
I've been using the Muller for several years and like it but as others have mentioned the adjustment recommendations from Muller call for 1/8 turn back off and I don't know if I agree with that and I'll explain.

Case in point: Last spring I was up at Joe Lyons place getting tuned and he noted some clutch slip. I had adjusted it per Muller instruction while cold and we decided to pull the cover and check it. It was of course hot then and when he broke the nut loose the screw had no free play. So he backed it off half a turn past contact and continued on with the tune. After I rode it home I got to thinking, does everything in that clutch actuation system really separate when it heats up? I'm thinking maybe the frictions in the clutch pack are growing with heat and I'm losing all the separation with the limited travel? Don't know, just a thought. Can't come up with another reason for the disappearing 1/8th turn free play. Alto Carbonite pack by the way.

In any case I have been using it at 1/2 turn backoff nowadays and very tight on the cable adjustment, just enough to see it pull away from the housing and it seems to be doing fine and I can't detect any slippage when hot.
Greg

Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2017, 08:07:20 PM »
Is there anyone on HTT that can machine a Muller for the Baker throwout bearing for me?

hmmm, knowledge only from reading htt but I didn't think Muller needed machining for Baker throwout beariing kit.


Just Nick did mine for me.


I think FSG machined his to accept a larger retaining ring than the one Baker supplies. Did you have to machine the Muller ramp to accept the Baker thrust washer?


The difference between Harley and mueller is after you loosen the adjuster rod and turn in until it just grabs,you than turn it back out 1/8 turn. The harley is 1/2 to 3/4

How does one determine what 1/8th of a turn is? Its easy to determine 1/2 a turn or 3/4

Not being a smart a$$, I can understand somebody having trouble with 1/8 of a six sided object.
If you can do 3/4 you should be all over it. Half of 1/2 turn is a 1/4 turn. Half of 1/4 turn is 1/8 turn. If still troubled with 1/8 turn, perhaps try 1/6 turn. That would be one flat of the allen key in the adjuster. The difference between 1/8 and 1/6 would probably not be worth worrying about in this situation. Hope this helps. Good diagram posted by Ohio HD, that should also be a big help.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2017, 08:48:21 PM »
The Muller inner ramp must be opened up to clearance the larger diameter bearing thrust washer for the Baker throw out bearing. The Muller inner ramp has a 20,80mm recess for the OEM size bearing and thrust washer. The Baker kit uses a 24,00mm OD bearing, not sure of the thrust washer OD, as I don't have one here. But I assume it's also 24,00mm OD.


By the way, you can just buy the Koyo FNT-1024 bearing, but you'll need to make items #6 and #8 in the diagram.

https://www.amazon.com/Koyo-FNT-1024-Assembly-17000rpm-Rotational/dp/B007EE5S5M




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« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 10:13:14 PM by Ohio HD »
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Online ecir50

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2017, 08:58:38 PM »
So I guess the one used on the baker is baker specific?

Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2017, 10:27:22 PM »
So I guess the one used on the baker is baker specific?


I got this info direct from Baker back in 2013, "The origin of the washer is Timken who make it to Bakers Design/Dimensions, minimum hardness is 58 Rockwell."

Some more info Baker Heavy Duty Throw Out Bearing
http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=61088.0

Offline klammer76

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2017, 08:40:20 AM »
I just buy mine from Baker, just way easier in the long run. They have a 15% off sale until end of today. I picked up a spare at their tent at Sturgis last year. The shipping is what kills ya.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2017, 08:45:22 AM »
As long as the 18 ramps are what you want, then that's ok.

For me I see no point in paying for the ramps when I have them sitting in spare part boxes. As well I want to use the Muller, so I'll have the inner ramp chucked in a lathe and open the recess O.D. to about 26,00mm.

By the way, anyone that has purchased the Baker kit, what was the O.D. dimension of the recess in the inner ramp?
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Offline klammer76

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2017, 11:16:30 AM »
As long as the 18 ramps are what you want, then that's ok.

For me I see no point in paying for the ramps when I have them sitting in spare part boxes. As well I want to use the Muller, so I'll have the inner ramp chucked in a lathe and open the recess O.D. to about 26,00mm.

By the way, anyone that has purchased the Baker kit, what was the O.D. dimension of the recess in the inner ramp?
I meant I just buy the bearing kit from Baker. I use the Muller also.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2017, 12:24:47 PM »
As long as the 18 ramps are what you want, then that's ok.

For me I see no point in paying for the ramps when I have them sitting in spare part boxes. As well I want to use the Muller, so I'll have the inner ramp chucked in a lathe and open the recess O.D. to about 26,00mm.

By the way, anyone that has purchased the Baker kit, what was the O.D. dimension of the recess in the inner ramp?
I meant I just buy the bearing kit from Baker. I use the Muller also.

I see. But you have to call them to get the replacement parts, they're not listed on the web as items to order.
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Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2017, 12:36:08 PM »
I see. But you have to call them to get the replacement parts, they're not listed on the web as items to order.

I just ordered the bits I wanted, items 5, 6 & 8 from the install sheet via email.


Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2017, 12:46:55 PM »
I see. But you have to call them to get the replacement parts, they're not listed on the web as items to order.

I just ordered the bits I wanted, items 5, 6 & 8 from the install sheet via email.




Yep, that works. I use my friendly INDY to get the stuff from Baker.

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Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2017, 04:10:20 PM »
As long as the 18 ramps are what you want, then that's ok.

For me I see no point in paying for the ramps when I have them sitting in spare part boxes. As well I want to use the Muller, so I'll have the inner ramp chucked in a lathe and open the recess O.D. to about 26,00mm.

By the way, anyone that has purchased the Baker kit, what was the O.D. dimension of the recess in the inner ramp?

Recess OD =  0.990", depth = 0.095". Thrust washer OD = 0.905", thick = 0.095".

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2017, 04:13:27 PM »
As long as the 18 ramps are what you want, then that's ok.

For me I see no point in paying for the ramps when I have them sitting in spare part boxes. As well I want to use the Muller, so I'll have the inner ramp chucked in a lathe and open the recess O.D. to about 26,00mm.

By the way, anyone that has purchased the Baker kit, what was the O.D. dimension of the recess in the inner ramp?

Recess OD =  0.990", depth = 0.095". Thrust washer OD = 0.905", thick = 0.095".

Perfect! Thank you!

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Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2017, 04:19:37 PM »
Now that 19 Deg Ramps are available I wonder if Baker are going to offer the choice of ramps with their kit.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2017, 04:25:02 PM »
I would doubt it, at least not without prodding them.     :duel:


Looking at this Muller unit, wouldn't be super hard to make these, about three operations I think? Last one being EDM machine the pivots. Have to ask Roger, my wonder guy of machining at work.
 
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