Author Topic: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions  (Read 3201 times)

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Offline kd

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2018, 06:34:24 AM »
Question here....is this needed (opened up Mueller ramp for the Baker HD throw out bearing)???
I have the Mueller and shovelhead spring to install on my 114 @137HP & 134TQ.
If this is the way to go who and where do I get this done?
Or run it like it is.....??????
Come on, Ohio HD & No Cents let me know please. Thanks for the info.


You don't indicate that you are using the Baker bearing. The mod to the Muller arm is only done to accommodate that over-sized release bearing. Follow the instructions and put it together. If at some point you decide to go to the heavy duty Baker unit you will have this thread to get the spec for machining out the relief.  :wink:

 :up:  for using the return spring on the cable.
KD

Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2018, 10:00:36 AM »
Looks like putting a slight chamfer on the throwout and radiusing the flutes a touch on the end mill would go a long way here?

I was thinking similar. Radius the inside corner of the recess and one edge of a thrust washer? Keep half the thickness of the thrust washer untouched, the half closest to the bearing, to maintain support for the bearing rollers. Micro surgery to radius a corner of a washer! Chamfer would be easier. With ~0.020 of meat to the divot, I think a radius would be stronger although I don't think I'd be too keen on taking the edge off a (expensive) mill bit.

I'll have to check my notes when I get home to see if I recorded the measurements. HTT Member Billy machined both my oem 21* and my Muller. He may recall?

I don't recall the exact measurement, however I opened up the recess enough to allow for the tool nose radius, and faced it back to the ID, so as the washer would sit comfortably flat on a fully machined seat. HTH

Sounds like Billy went bigger than 0.949 diameter. And no faffing about with the thrust washer. That might be fine on a 21 ramp but again, I've not seen a Muller ramp.
BTW, I believe klammer76 and Billy are both reputable sources of information. I also trust Ohio HD's measurements and that's what got me thinking about taking the edge off the washer.
Another BTW, 15/16 = 0.9375". My baker ramp measures 0.990 but looks like someone had two bites at it. I wonder if it had been done on a mill with maybe a worn 1" bit.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 10:04:59 AM by -deuced- »

Offline Billy

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2018, 10:13:42 AM »
If y'all are gonna use an end mill I'd suggest carbide. I didn't hardness test the ramp material but it is hard, I'd guess 58-60 Rockwell C.
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Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2018, 01:04:07 PM »
Quote
I didn't hardness test the ramp material but it is hard

sure is   :SM:

Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2018, 03:48:45 PM »
Well I can tell you that the new 19 Deg Ramps in the 2018 Softails aren't very hard  :emsad:

I just machined a new ramp to take the larger diameter thrust washer, wasn't cheese or brass but sure wasn't as hard as the previous HD 21 and 16 Deg ramps I've touched.


Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2018, 03:53:28 PM »
and just because, here's a stock HD thrust washer sitting in the recess of a stock 21 Deg inner ramp


Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2018, 04:16:26 PM »
Speaking of 21 ramps. Here's how much room you have after opening the recess to 0.990" for the Baker HD throw out bearing. Even a drunk sailor could do it!!     :teeth:


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Online klammer76

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2018, 09:36:24 PM »
I checked my notebook and I don't have the dimensions from my Muller that Billy machined. I'm surprised as I record everything. I'll add to this later in the spring when I have the clutch release cover off when it gets warmer.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2018, 03:54:08 PM »
My buddy with the machine shop called, said my ramps were ready. I picked them up, they look good, getting things together little by little.


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Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2018, 05:39:16 PM »
Might just be the angle of the dangle but they look like different sizes in the pic. Are they all machined to fit a baker bearing? Looks like you went a little deeper on the muller, too?

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2018, 05:58:38 PM »
They are different diameters, the 21 units are larger diameter, as there's more room. Good eye on the Muller, it's deeper, not because I wanted it that way.

Another lesson, stop letting your friends do work for you for free. It was machined to match the depth of the 21's even though I didn't ask for that. An honest mistake, but what can I say, make him pay for a part that he wouldn't charge me to machine? I don't have what I need at home to accurately measure from the radius to the other side where the recess is. At work I can see how much material is still there, and if I think there is any issues with the three bearings and the clutch spring pressure. If I think it's too thin, I'll scrap it and buy another Muller. Getting metal bits into the transmission bearings isn't worth the gamble.

So I did what any sane person would do, I ordered a cheap bench top lathe today.    :teeth:
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Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2018, 06:20:18 PM »
.........................ordered a cheap bench top lathe today.    :teeth:

I've been researching those lately, definitely on the wishlist. I'm starting a new thread!

Offline Bagger

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2018, 04:02:17 PM »
Just thought I'd add this picture.  18* ramps that were included with the Baker Drivetrain Heavy Duty Throwout bearing Kit I bought in a match 2011. https://bakerdrivetrain.com/products/heavy-duty-throwout-bearing-kit

Left pic with stock bearing in stock 18* ramp.  Right pic 18* ramp from Baker supplied in their kit.

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« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 06:13:43 PM by Bagger »

Offline Bagger

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2018, 04:54:15 PM »
Muller ramp that I sent to Baker, which they machined to fit their bearing for me.
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 05:10:24 PM by Bagger »

Offline ecir50

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2018, 05:53:05 PM »
so what's the advantage for the larger baker?

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2018, 06:07:23 PM »
More bearing surface, handles more load.
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Offline ecir50

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2018, 06:41:47 PM »
Was wondering if there would be a notable feel. Seem it would be smoother with the large surface. 

Offline -deuced-

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2018, 05:10:17 PM »
Muller ramp that I sent to Baker, which they machined to fit their bearing for me.


Measurements? Looks like they machined the recess wider than in their 18 ramps. What about depth? Thrust washer looks like it may have been machined. Is the thrust washer flush with the ramp? Is it the same thrust washer as in your 18 pic? Are the Baker thrust washers in the pics the same thickness?

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2018, 03:57:55 PM »
Muller 67-10-0 FAIL

I bought a micrometer from a guy that had tools listed on eBay. Good for measuring the remaining material after my friend played end mill to the center of the earth with the Muller inner ramp. Best I can measure is I have 0.011" of material between the bearing recess and the closest part of the divot on the other side of it. So it's not enough material to make me feel comfortable with 400+ pounds of clutch pressure pushing against it. So it's scrap. Maybe it's ok to use on a stock clutch spring pressure, but why would you need it on a stock clutch?

   :angry:       :banghead:      :cry:      :emoGroan:


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Offline kd

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2018, 04:23:58 PM »
Can you refill it with mild steel and re-cut it now that you know the depth measurement?
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2018, 04:27:10 PM »
Not taking chances with anything that will eventual end up in the bearings in the transmission. These ramps are hard, probably C50 or more. It's not worth the trouble to try and fix it, and end up with bigger problems later.
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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2018, 03:05:50 PM »
First lesson in working on, well, anything. If you want something done right, do it yourself. This is an HD 18 ramp I machined for the Baker heavy duty through out bearing. Turned out pretty good I think. They definitely are as hard as a snarbuckle.


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Offline koko3052

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2018, 03:11:50 PM »
Our snarbuckles all froze  here last night, -28C!  :dgust:

Offline FSG

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2018, 03:41:40 PM »
Quote
This is an HD 18 ramp I machined for the Baker heavy duty through out bearing.

To what diameter and depth?

It's just my opinion but, the Baker Thrust Washer (by Timken) which are considerably larger in diameter than the OEM, provide much more stability for the Inner Ramp to rotate and so I'd only enlarge the recess diameter in the Inner Ramp to a hair or so larger than the OD of the Thrust Washer.

Kudos to Bert for putting up the $$$ to have the Thrust Washers made as their ID is smaller than stock for the OD.
 .

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Muller Power Clutch - First Impressions
« Reply #99 on: March 31, 2018, 04:09:53 PM »
Quote
This is an HD 18 ramp I machined for the Baker heavy duty through out bearing.

To what diameter and depth?

It's just my opinion but, the Baker Thrust Washer (by Timken) which are considerably larger in diameter than the OEM, provide much more stability for the Inner Ramp to rotate and so I'd only enlarge the recess diameter in the Inner Ramp to a hair or so larger than the OD of the Thrust Washer.

Kudos to Bert for putting up the $$$ to have the Thrust Washers made as their ID is smaller than stock for the OD.
 .

OD came out at 0.942", the depth is 0.105", that cleaned it up decent.

You must have gotten different bearings than I did, mine came with the brass bushing to fit the push rod diameter.


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