Author Topic: hylift johnson b2313se  (Read 1620 times)

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Offline fxstdavew

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hylift johnson b2313se
« on: January 17, 2018, 12:35:45 PM »
Anyone running these ? Opinions?
Most bike problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the seat

Offline koko3052

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 12:39:59 PM »
Not a direct answer, but I'm going to run the original Johnson #2410 in my next build.

Offline No Cents

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 01:47:06 PM »
    I did all last season...and they worked great in my 124".  :up:  No complaints at all. My valve train was nice and quiet. They never rattled on cold start ups.
   In fact...I just put in a set of Larry's new 842SEL lifters last week that he is selling that have the limiters in them. I just wanted to go back to a limited lifter. There was nothing wrong with the B2313SE's that I pulled out. His new 842's are suppose to deliver about 10% more oil to the top end. I didn't preload the lifters with oil before installing them like I normally do...and they went dead silent in just a few seconds after the initial start up.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Nastytls

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 03:43:04 PM »
I run them in my bike with RS 647 cams. They are nice and quiet. Haven't heard any clatter on startup even after sitting for a while, but I'm sure I'll hear some when I fire it up this spring after sitting all winter.

Offline misfitJason

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 05:34:31 PM »
I am.  I got them from Larry on this site.  I like them and I have run Johnson’s (and currently) on my evo too. The don’t rattle even when the bike has been sitting a week
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Offline sfmichael

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 08:47:35 PM »
installed several sets with good results  :up:

WFO Larry is a good source for them  :up:
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline Rockout Rocker Products

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
 :up: WFOLarry
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Offline Timinator

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 10:21:07 PM »
Any of the larger automotive warehouses sell the Hylift-Johnsons inexpensively. They fit small block chevies too, although the catalogue lists some of them for HDs too. Same with the limited travel ones.
Stay away from the Morel and repackaged Morel INEXPENSIVE lifters, 3 bad sets out of three sets. They will eventually pump up correctly at idle, but once the RPMs get above 1800 or so, some of them will collapse and that's with the small block Chevvies minimal spring pressure (110-130 on the seat).
Every time I called them all I got was: "We have never had any complaints before", yeah, just google Morel lifter problems. The expensive ones are fine, but pricey. After the runaround from Morel, I stay away from all of their stuff as a matter of principal. JMHO   TIMINATOR
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Offline Scott P

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 04:19:57 AM »
No questions ever in regards to S&S valvetrain products, fwiw.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Offline BVHOG

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 06:49:02 AM »
I have used over 50 sets of these lifters, on the last batch I ordered I had a couple that would not pump up. I still think It's a great lifter but I have yet to see ANY lifter brand not have some sort of issue when a big enough sample of them has been used. Have never seen a roller or body failure with them yet. (can't say that for Gatermans)
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Offline N-gin

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 10:16:42 AM »
U have ran a few Johnson lifters and a couple SS. Both do great. My Gaters worked well. But noticed some galling on the inside of the lifter wall and some noise.
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2018, 06:34:49 AM »
Johnson and Topline-Hylift are not the same company or parts.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »
Johnson and Topline-Hylift are not the same company or parts.


HYLIFT JOHNSON™ and  JOHNSON LIFTERS ® are not the same company.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 10:37:43 AM »
I mentioned some time back that the real "Johnson" lifters claims to have made a cease and desist request to Topline Hylift in regards to using the Johnson name.  I got what I perceived as attitude here after posting that previously. Did the person at Johnson lie to me,  I don't know.  My understanding is the only thing "Johnson" about the Topline Hylift product is the plant building was once owned by the Johnson family sometime in the past and the current crew that re-opened it is using the Johnson name.

Someone with better facts or that has been told a different story can/will straighten out my understanding.

Would be nice to know the facts.

Been posted before I believe but here's their troubled story from Hylift website:  http://hylift-johnson.com/our-company/
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 10:55:02 AM by 04 SE DEUCE »

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2018, 10:47:00 AM »
I mentioned some time back that the real "Johnson" lifters claims to have made a cease and desist order to Topline Hylift in regards to using the Johnson name.  I got what I perceived as attitude here after posting that previously. Did the person at Johnson lie to me,  I don't know.  My understanding is the only thing "Johnson" about the Topline Hylift product is the plant building was once owned by the Johnson family sometime in the past and the current crew that re-opened it is using the Johnson name.

Someone with better facts or that has been told a different story can/will straighten out my understanding.

Would be nice to know the facts.


Not sure how long ago you got your info but I would bet if it were true the HYLIFT JOHNSON™
Website and advertising would reflect it. Once a cease and desist is ordered the the advertising usually stops and sometimes you have time to flush current packaging other time it is pulled and repackaged immediately.  Like always two sides to every story.

According to their web site Johnson lifter registered that name in 2007.
The Hylift Johnson name goes back to the 1950's and became part of TopLine Automotive in 2003.

https://johnsonlifters.com/Portals/0/Documents/Registered%20Trademark%20Document.pdf

http://www.hylift-johnson.com/our-company/
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 10:56:03 AM by 1FSTRK »
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Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2018, 11:13:52 AM »
I have a head cold and am a little slow/off.  Made the same mistake previously and came back to change "order' to "request" and was too late,  you were already on it.

Called Topline Hylift and asked for an explanation of the use and affiliation of the Johnson name to the current product/lifters being made.  A gentleman named Ed told me that the plant previously manufactured Hylift-Johnson lifters and after re-opening under TopLine Automotive they are making Hylift-Johnson lifters.  Couldn't really nail down whether the current operation has any real/other ties to the Johnson name besides Hylift-Johnson lifters having been made at that location previously and closed.

I went to the trouble to call as some of my previous posts in regards to TopLine Hylift were laughable to some...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 11:19:54 AM by 04 SE DEUCE »

Offline BVHOG

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2018, 05:55:19 AM »
If you want the "real" Johnson lifters they are sold by fueling.  Very different lifter than the topline hylift lifters and a great deal more money.
If you don't have a sense of humor you probably have no sense at all.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2018, 09:35:10 AM »
If you want the "real" Johnson lifters they are sold by fueling.  Very different lifter than the topline hylift lifters and a great deal more money.
Yes their "race" lifter.


I was told that TopLine Hylift makes the plunger in 5 sizes and a "machine" measures the bore in the lifter body and selects what size plunger to install.  When I asked about more detail I realized that the person I was talking to is in a different building/location from the plant and just has a basic understanding.  I got the impression that the plunger selection is on the slow bleed only which kind-of explains why a friend of mine has had problems with more than 1 set of the regular 2313 (not the slow bleed) Htlift with a mild bolt-in and stock heads/springs.  Ticks at start up,  takes a few seconds to quiet and is a little noisy when hot.

Offline wfolarry

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 12:26:37 PM »

Offline ssls6

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2018, 05:27:54 AM »
I put a set in my 2010 CVO.  No complaints so far.  With all the specialty lifters for sell, I find it hard to believe there are that many custom machine shops around.   I find it much more likely that the same lifters are just repackaged and sold under various names.  I also don't believe people buy lifters, take them apart, measure all dimensions, and put them back together scraping various components.

People have shown where the Harley lifters fails (axle bearings) and the hylifts are at least trying to deal with that.  I don't know if their solution will be successful or not but that is why I chose them.  I will likely still replace them after another 20k miles.

Offline Rockout Rocker Products

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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2018, 07:43:09 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLx_2UKcjS4

Awesome video, thanks  :up:

I agree, I like seeing manufacturing facilities and their processes. Lots of motors, air cylinders, conveyors, proximity switches, PLC controls, etc.
For the best deal on bike parts, call Calif Phil
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Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2018, 08:12:52 AM »
Me too  :up:
I really like the vibratory parts feeders

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2018, 01:06:19 PM »
There is a company called Johnson lifters, but Hylift, Johnson lifters are manufactured by Topline.
This is where the confusion is, Hylift Johnson went through a bankruptcy several years ago, as stated above and then there was some fraud/theft by it general manager of the company, there was some quality problems.
That has all been sorted out.
They classify their lifters is several leak down classes, the OEM quality is just a normal leak down rate and has no prefix. The Racing lifter is a fast blead down, or blead down lifter/ variable lifter.  This lifter give more blead down at low rpms and has an R prefix.
The slow bleed down lifter it a very tight tolerances and slow bleed down. These lifters work more like solids and are designed to work with valve trains with high valve spring pressures, they have a prefix if S.
They also offer the direct shot lifter with the shot to the roller, it has a prefix of E after the number.
I’ve run several sets of the standard sets over the years and never had a problem, always bought them from AMS, but that was before Larry started selling them so Larry :up:

This from there web page, product page.
http://hylift-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/HyLift-Johnson-Lifter-Catalog_2014.pdf

Types of Hydraulic Lifters:
Hydraulic Lifters are great for a maintenance free valve train but do have some limitations.
In some performance applications where higher valve spring pressure is required, a standard
Hydraulic Lifter might not be able to handle the extra spring load resulting with the piston
collapsing. The collapsing will cause a loss in valve lift and usually a ticking noise. We have
three different types of Hydraulic Lifters to accommodate a wider range of performance
requirements.
OEM Design: These parts don’t have any designation after their part number. So a standard
part number will look like A-0817. These Lifters are manufactured to be direct replacements
of the Original equipment. They have the same range of Leak Down as was supplied to your
car manufacture. These lifters are made with the widest Leak Down range of 10 to 120
seconds. The reason for this range is to ease manufacturing and reduce the cost of the
part. We manufacture this type of parts to the same range as was supplied to the OEM
with 90% of them being in the 20 to 80 second range.
“R” or Race Design: These parts have an “R” designation after their part number. So a Race
Design part number will look like A-0817R. These Lifters have a Leak Down on the lower end
of the scale from 8 to 20 seconds. In the performance application these lifter will actually
“Bleed” down and result in an effective loss of valve lift and duration at lower RPMs. These
are also referred to as “Variable Duration” Lifters and will supply a better idle quality when
using a performance cam while still getting the benefit of the upper end power over a stock
cam. As the engine increases in RPM the Bleed down effect is reduced resulting in more duration
and valve lift. Having lifters with a much smaller Leak Down range will also balance all
of the cylinders to each other. Having one cylinder with lifters having a Leak Down of 80
seconds will react and produce a different power curve than the same cylinder with a 10
second Lifter.
“S” or Slow Design: These parts have an “S” designation after their part number. So a Slow
Design part number will look like A-0817S. These Lifters have a Leak Down on the upper
end of the scale from 90 to 120 seconds. In a performance application these lifter will actually
act like a mechanical lifter with very little effective loss of valve lift or duration at any RPM.
Just like the “R” Lifters these have a much smaller Leak Down range that will also balance all
of the cylinders to each other. These lifters are very hard to produce because the TOTAL
clearance between the I.D. of the Body and the Piston assembly is reduced to less than
0.000120”, or 1/30 of a human hair. These are like super heavy duty shocks and can handle
higher spring pressures without collapsing like the standard and “R” lifters. The only draw
back of this type of lifter is that if the valve train should “Float” because of reaching a higher
RPM than the valve springs can handle these lifters will try to take up the excessive clearance
causing the valve to hang open resulting in a loss of power. Because these are Hydraulic
lifters there is no lash or additional adjustment needed and the full cam profile is translated
to the valves. In testing, not only did these lifters result in more power and higher RPM
reading over other Hydraulic lifters they also reduced valve train wear and failure compared
to mechanical lifters.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2018, 02:43:00 PM »
Letter or other designations added at the end or after a part # are referred to as suffix.

If you got your standard Hylift lifters from AMS,  they personally claim to quality check the lifters.

Like I said my friend has standard 2313 that are slow to pump up and are a little noisy when the oil is hot/thin...replacements weren't a lot different.  We had someone else come on this site and post the same issue with the standard 2313 but he was berated and told it had to be anything other than the lifters as they were the flavor of the month.

Others here have finally experienced TopLine Hylift lifters that are noisy...it takes a while to have ample sample time and quantity.

Unless I'm really confused these aren't magic/perfect lifters.


Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2018, 03:30:26 PM »
Who was it in here who checked bleed down rate on lifters and paired them up?
There were a ton of lifters that were blamed for the rocker shaft tick and replaced with lifters that did not help.

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2018, 03:38:15 PM »
And I mispeld beead.

Offline wfolarry

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 03:08:26 AM »
Letter or other designations added at the end or after a part # are referred to as suffix.

If you got your standard Hylift lifters from AMS,  they personally claim to quality check the lifters.

Like I said my friend has standard 2313 that are slow to pump up and are a little noisy when the oil is hot/thin...replacements weren't a lot different.  We had someone else come on this site and post the same issue with the standard 2313 but he was berated and told it had to be anything other than the lifters as they were the flavor of the month.

Others here have finally experienced TopLine Hylift lifters that are noisy...it takes a while to have ample sample time and quantity.

Unless I'm really confused these aren't magic/perfect lifters.

The 2313 are the standard lifter with the plunger fitted to .0008 - .0012.
The 2313S & 2313SE are fitted to .0002.
Good oil pressure is a must for ANY lifter to work.
Nobody ever told me they were the flavor of the month. I wish I knew I could have sold more.  :gob:
I sell hundreds of lifters. Some guys swear by them. Others said they tick. Never said they were a 'magic' lifter.
I'm a dealer for S&S, Comp Cams & I even have stock Delphi lifters on the shelf for whatever floats your boat. I don't force anything on anybody. I give people options. Use what works best for you.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 04:56:13 AM »
Many brands of many products take the "As good", "better", or "best" approach.
If you cheap out and buy a lifter that they tell you up front is "as good" tolerance wise as the ticking one you are removing you cannot complain. You can lie to yourself and others and say I have brand X and they are supposed to be the best but everyone knows you got just what you paid for.
 
This lifter thing has gotten crazy. The idea that just because they will all fit in the hole and the bike will start means the are all the same except the price is just ignorance.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: hylift johnson b2313se
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2018, 10:15:11 AM »
Who was it in here who checked bleed down rate on lifters and paired them up?
There were a ton of lifters that were blamed for the rocker shaft tick and replaced with lifters that did not help.

The bike in question has rocker lockers installed.

Many brands of many products take the "As good", "better", or "best" approach.
If you cheap out and buy a lifter that they tell you up front is "as good" tolerance wise as the ticking one you are removing you cannot complain. You can lie to yourself and others and say I have brand X and they are supposed to be the best but everyone knows you got just what you paid for.
 
This lifter thing has gotten crazy. The idea that just because they will all fit in the hole and the bike will start means the are all the same except the price is just ignorance.

Personally if Hylift was my brand of choice I would have bought the (SE) slow bleed with roller oiling.    The standard lifter was billed as a stock replacement so my friend was told they would be ok with just a bolt in cam.

The bike was quiet prior to the cam and lifter swap and subsequent replacement of the noisy new lifters...same as the thread made by another some time back.

Letter or other designations added at the end or after a part # are referred to as suffix.

If you got your standard Hylift lifters from AMS,  they personally claim to quality check the lifters.

Like I said my friend has standard 2313 that are slow to pump up and are a little noisy when the oil is hot/thin...replacements weren't a lot different.  We had someone else come on this site and post the same issue with the standard 2313 but he was berated and told it had to be anything other than the lifters as they were the flavor of the month.

Others here have finally experienced TopLine Hylift lifters that are noisy...it takes a while to have ample sample time and quantity.

Unless I'm really confused these aren't magic/perfect lifters.

The 2313 are the standard lifter with the plunger fitted to .0008 - .0012.
The 2313S & 2313SE are fitted to .0002.
Good oil pressure is a must for ANY lifter to work.
Nobody ever told me they were the flavor of the month. I wish I knew I could have sold more.  :gob:
I sell hundreds of lifters. Some guys swear by them. Others said they tick. Never said they were a 'magic' lifter.
I'm a dealer for S&S, Comp Cams & I even have stock Delphi lifters on the shelf for whatever floats your boat. I don't force anything on anybody. I give people options. Use what works best for you.

Not one word of my quote above was directed at you personally Larry it's the internet placebo syndrome at work,  the Gaterman lifters were a great example of that. 

You did however let me know some time back that I had some incorrect/laughable facts/info,  which were statements made personally to me that I shared as I was told.  I've checked some but will probably never know how much was a lie/incorrect,  old info,  or if there are possibilities that are not public knowledge and I really don't care other than it's not my thing to knowingly share bad info.