Author Topic: Max Cell cams ?  (Read 2177 times)

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Offline turboprop

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 05:45:33 AM »
For those of us that do not know, what would the difference be if measuring at .050 vs. .053? Is there a benefit to claim itís .050 instead of .053?

It changes the published/measured timing events. If someone wanted to lets say copy a competitors grind, they could publish timing events measured at a different lift. Makes it harder to compare apples to apples.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline joe_lyons

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 06:01:52 AM »
Some companies use .053, others use .050 and even some use seat to seat.  There is no exact industry-standard that everybody has to publish.
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Offline Jamie Long

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 07:28:14 AM »
For those of us that do not know, what would the difference be if measuring at .050 vs. .053? Is there a benefit to claim itís .050 instead of .053?

The difference between .050 and .053 reference is about 1 degree in event timing, about 2 degrees in duration. In the end this makes no difference in the cam itself, it's simply reference points.

I know nothing about this company or their cams, however if we want new products to come to market and move the envelope forward we have to give them fair shot. It seem some are playing judge, jury, and executioner before the components have even been tested. This is also not helping user participation on this and other sites. 

Offline harleytuner

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 02:25:23 PM »
I got the bike tuned today, turned out pretty good.  Made 110HP and 128TRQ, carried 120TRQ from 2200 to 4500. 
Enjoying the hell out of my "hotted" up twincam

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 03:57:37 PM »
Specs at .050 make a cam sketchy  or shady ?

Everyone else does it that way.....that damn sifton guy had to go and make Harley cams ....spec them wrong..... everyone else followed suit


Wrong. No, everyone does not do it that way. But dont take my word for it. Look here:

Zippers
http://www.zippersperformance.com/index.php/downloads/dl/file/id/29/product/0/catalog_red_shift_cams.pdf

Andrews
http://www.andrewsproducts.com/sites/www.andrewsproducts.com/files/catalog_pdfs/page_06_0.pdf

S&S
https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/instructions-data/cam-specs-overview

Black Widow
http://www.crazyhorsespeedshop.com/twin-cam-engines.html

GMR
http://gmrperformance.com/products/cams/


As usual head in the sand

Sifton started the .053 nonsense...... everyone else followed suit

By everyone else..... everyone but the Harley market

Important to us but a very small market

So not shady..... normal

Offline sfmichael

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 11:02:19 PM »
For those of us that do not know, what would the difference be if measuring at .050 vs. .053? Is there a benefit to claim itís .050 instead of .053?

The difference between .050 and .053 reference is about 1 degree in event timing, about 2 degrees in duration. In the end this makes no difference in the cam itself, it's simply reference points.

I know nothing about this company or their cams, however if we want new products to come to market and move the envelope forward we have to give them fair shot. It seem some are playing judge, jury, and executioner before the components have even been tested. This is also not helping user participation on this and other sites.


^^^ this
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline shovelbill

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 03:57:06 AM »
maybe Jim Leineweber will come out with some M8 cams........measured at .020"
build it, bust it.....figure out why

Offline turboprop

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 04:29:27 AM »
maybe Jim Leineweber will come out with some M8 cams........measured at .020"

Jim also publishes his specs at .053". Like almost everyone else in the harley industry.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 04:44:43 AM »
So how is publishing specs at .050 shady ?

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 05:31:50 AM »
So how is publishing specs at .050 shady ?

Of course it is not shady.
I have to wonder how much of this comes from the factory getting help from the auto industry for these 4 valve heads because .050 specs are common there. It is also common knowledge they have in the past and Hd set the M8 precedent by publishing the OEM specs and SE cam specs at .050. Andrews followed suite using .050 specs with some of the first aftermarket M8 cams available as do the cams that started this thread which kept all things comparable in the M8 market . Some where in the game someone that makes cams for the earlier HD engines decided to use the old HD standard .053 spec number on their M8 cam and now we loose parity. We will never know if it was because they just did things the old way or if it was to separate their products from the pack but this thread proves it only adds confusion to an already confused customer base. The new cam timed that comes with 4 valve flow is a learning curve for even the HD pros but it is twice as hard for the DIY guys when the industry itself is confused. In trying to get or keep an edge on the market many do not even tell what timing lift they used while others give no timing specs at all.

I personally think the timing spec is the smallest issue here, it has overshadowed the the fact that many are creeping back to their 2 valve ways by adding more and more lift to these 4 valve heads. On top of having very little in return the high lift ignores the advantages of 4 valve heads and returns the customer to all the disadvantages of heavy springs, pushrod weight or flex, lifter problems, valve train noise as well as wear and tear. 
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2018, 05:46:49 AM »
It's a defacto or is .050" an SAE standard in automotive?


Offline shovelbill

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2018, 06:30:36 AM »
maybe Jim Leineweber will come out with some M8 cams........measured at .020"

Jim also publishes his specs at .053". Like almost everyone else in the harley industry.

i''m sorry if my sense of humor was lost over the interweb......
build it, bust it.....figure out why

Offline mike jesse

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2018, 08:05:59 AM »
Unless you are taking the time to degree the cam in, who cares.

Most will be installed lining up the dots on the gears. Done.

Offline NCTURBOS

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2018, 11:58:27 AM »
(704) area code... So, he's local to me. I'll have to look into him, his shop, etc...

Since he's been in the automotive race profession, as mentioned earlier, I can see where he's using .050" as his reference measurement.

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Offline HarleyFranco

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2018, 05:53:31 PM »
HarleyTuner that looks like a fun bike to drive.  Plus I can't believe 10 posts went by and nobody commented.

Quote
I got the bike tuned today, turned out pretty good.  Made 110HP and 128TRQ, carried 120TRQ from 2200 to 4500. 

Good job!

Frank

Offline FLSTFIDave

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Re: Max Cell cams ?
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2018, 08:26:32 PM »
I got the bike tuned today, turned out pretty good.  Made 110HP and 128TRQ, carried 120TRQ from 2200 to 4500.
That has to be a fun ride.  Nice torque for sure.
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