Author Topic: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?  (Read 1436 times)

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Offline anImel

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Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« on: February 08, 2018, 10:02:47 AM »
I took the bike to the 1/8 mile drag strip last year with my friends for the first/only time. I would like to increase the performance for this year. One being driver skill but other being the bikes capabilities. We are bringing some new guys with us this year and the boys have done some winter mods this year so I am looking to do the same to keep up/ahead.  We are planning more track days this year and the boyz have all been talking lots of trash this winter so we plan on some fun grudge matches this year both in the 1/8 and 1/4.

Unfortunately, last year we planned this as I was riding on a bald rear tire but I still did well as far as wins.  I had lots of wheel spin with any relevant RPM at launch so I had to leave softer and catch them mid-track. I would like to launch harder and lead, which is where my focus is on.

2016 FLHXS
110 bolt on kit. 124 tq/120 hp. No motor work this year, maybe next year. So planning on weight reduction and gearing/hookup this year.

Before the last race...
Stock ratios. 1.353/2.125=2.875
Energy One extra plate clutch pack.
SE Heavy Clutch disc.
Bald stock tire, too many burnouts :/.

Added after the race...
Dunlop American Elite tires. Not track worthy but new. Interesting to see how much difference not having a bald makes.
Evolution Industries 30 tooth engine sprocket for new primary ratio 1.533/2.125 = 3.257. Which I love on the street.
AIM VPC95 added to clutch.
Baker Attitude Adjuster.

Winter mods...xmas gifts from the wife!
MJK chain drive conversion 24/51 stock ratio.
Brock's Vtwin swingarm, -10.7 lbs, axle +2" rearward.
Twin Power Lithium Ion battery, -16 lbs.
Bike is about 45 lbs lighter from part swaps/removal and the rider is about 20 lbs lighter from dieting/exercise and lack of summer rides with beer stops.

Considered mods...
I still have primary apart and considering changes before putting it back together.
N1 shifting, I've been know to hit neutral a few times during aggressive shifting.
Bandit clutch, or other.
Gearing change closer to 3.45? too much? Either through primary or secondary changes. May be too high for comfortable street cruising, OD 6th gear for that next year maybe to help, am considering Baker GrudgeBox, almost bought it when it was on sale Black Friday but just missed it's availability at that price, so next sale.
Thoughts on clutch and sprocket change? What about the ratio? Maybe change gearing in secondary instead?

Any other ideas/thougts?
Thanks!

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 10:37:19 AM »
There is a Shinko tire that a lot of the guys use that is very sticky, not expensive.
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Offline mike jesse

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 11:08:25 AM »
The best upgrade would be seat time. You can never get enough of it.
Leave the bike alone and run it until the ET is consistent.
Then focus on cutting a decent light.
When you can run a consistent ET and cut a .075 or better light, then add power to the bike.

Even the best seasoned riders still find ways to mess up a run now and then.

Offline HotRodShovel

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 01:48:16 PM »
There is at least one 'pro drag' racer on this forum.  At the top of the game too.  thats who I'd want to ask about drag mods. Just MHO.
Sometimes life is like trying to share a sandwich with Rosie O'Donnell. 
John

Offline anImel

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 03:54:45 PM »
All info appreciated. Not looking to become a pro racer just looking have loads of fun, although it be progressively improving fun.
I will be planning for new larger motor 124? in the following 2019 riding season unless I destroy this one before then. Until then I want to improve the bike to support the larger build while still giving me added benefit now.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 04:00:26 PM »
I would start looking into a bandit clutch, I know you think your clutch is fine but as they say you can buy it now or you can buy it later but your going to want one because it makes a difference.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Online LMR

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 06:54:23 PM »
The more power you have, the harder it will be to race. My problem was letting the clutch out3/4 the way and waiting to see if it would wheelie. That loses time. Ideally, you would want the front wheel to come off the ground no more than an inch. More then this and is wasted torque. Donít worry about your reaction time and concentrate on the 60í times. Under 1.50 will be nice. The best bracket bike I ever saw was a 750 Honda automatic. This bike was consistent within a hundredth yet ran in the 18 sec time. All the rider had to worry about then was the light. That plays big on an 8 sec turbo bike waiting until the guy is 2/3ís down the track.

Offline ThumperDeuce

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 07:01:06 PM »
Bandit Superclutch with lock-up.  Set the springs and weights for a high rev launch.

Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline Jonny Cash

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 04:44:07 AM »
Skip the grudgebox, unless you want to re -gear the final drive.  Get a decent set of rear shocks with rebound adjustment, will help with the 60', but most of all just keep making passes, seat time will teach you a lot.  I've only been running a bike a few years, I learn something every time I go.   For a regular street tire, the Michelin hooks really good, the Shinko a lot better
Accurate information is expensive, rare and difficult to find!

Online LMR

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 04:48:27 AM »
Reduce the air pressure in the rear to 20#. If still spinning on launch, reduce a little more.

Offline anImel

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2018, 01:23:14 PM »
Iím wondering about shift points. I currently shift about 6000 and it drops the next gear to around 5000/5200. Iím wondering if I should shift around 5500? See dynograph for reference.
See video for WOT run. https://instagram.com/p/BgnBwEihSqp/


Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2018, 04:29:07 PM »
What times are you running now?
Can you post a couple time slips?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline turboprop

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2018, 05:28:30 PM »
I took the bike to the 1/8 mile drag strip last year with my friends for the first/only time. I would like to increase the performance for this year. One being driver skill but other being the bikes capabilities. We are bringing some new guys with us this year and the boys have done some winter mods this year so I am looking to do the same to keep up/ahead.  We are planning more track days this year and the boyz have all been talking lots of trash this winter so we plan on some fun grudge matches this year both in the 1/8 and 1/4.

Unfortunately, last year we planned this as I was riding on a bald rear tire but I still did well as far as wins.  I had lots of wheel spin with any relevant RPM at launch so I had to leave softer and catch them mid-track. I would like to launch harder and lead, which is where my focus is on.

2016 FLHXS
110 bolt on kit. 124 tq/120 hp. No motor work this year, maybe next year. So planning on weight reduction and gearing/hookup this year.

Before the last race...
Stock ratios. 1.353/2.125=2.875
Energy One extra plate clutch pack.
SE Heavy Clutch disc.
Bald stock tire, too many burnouts :/.

Added after the race...
Dunlop American Elite tires. Not track worthy but new. Interesting to see how much difference not having a bald makes.
Evolution Industries 30 tooth engine sprocket for new primary ratio 1.533/2.125 = 3.257. Which I love on the street.
AIM VPC95 added to clutch.
Baker Attitude Adjuster.

Winter mods...xmas gifts from the wife!
MJK chain drive conversion 24/51 stock ratio.
Brock's Vtwin swingarm, -10.7 lbs, axle +2" rearward.
Twin Power Lithium Ion battery, -16 lbs.
Bike is about 45 lbs lighter from part swaps/removal and the rider is about 20 lbs lighter from dieting/exercise and lack of summer rides with beer stops.

Considered mods...
I still have primary apart and considering changes before putting it back together.
N1 shifting, I've been know to hit neutral a few times during aggressive shifting.
Bandit clutch, or other.
Gearing change closer to 3.45? too much? Either through primary or secondary changes. May be too high for comfortable street cruising, OD 6th gear for that next year maybe to help, am considering Baker GrudgeBox, almost bought it when it was on sale Black Friday but just missed it's availability at that price, so next sale.
Thoughts on clutch and sprocket change? What about the ratio? Maybe change gearing in secondary instead?

Any other ideas/thougts?
Thanks!

Is this a heads up class? Bagger specific?
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline anImel

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2018, 06:15:33 PM »


Is this a heads up class? Bagger specific?
[/quote]

For now, this is just me and the boys running on TNT days trying to get some experience and have fun. Iíve only gone one time last year and havenít been this year yet due to rainouts. We will be looking to venture out to different tracks for different experiences this year. Totally an amateur/novice.

Offline 04 SE DEUCE

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2018, 07:01:39 PM »
Skip the grudgebox, unless you want to re -gear the final drive.  Get a decent set of rear shocks with rebound adjustment, will help with the 60', but most of all just keep making passes, seat time will teach you a lot.  I've only been running a bike a few years, I learn something every time I go.   For a regular street tire, the Michelin hooks really good, the Shinko a lot better

Which model Michelin

Offline 1workinman

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2018, 05:17:44 AM »
  I spent a little time practicing on my 12 street glide just for fun and after reading about the basket coming apart and locking up that on the list to change out . On both bikes. My bagger is pretty heavy and I ride two up, . I doubt the GF would want to see the effects of a locked up basket while she is on the bike . I give here some credit as she leans forward as much as possible to as she said I don't like the front end off the ground

Offline ThumperDeuce

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2018, 06:19:46 AM »
Iím wondering about shift points. I currently shift about 6000 and it drops the next gear to around 5000/5200. Iím wondering if I should shift around 5500? See dynograph for reference.
See video for WOT run. https://instagram.com/p/BgnBwEihSqp/

No expert, but I would shift at 5500. 
Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline hbkeith

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2018, 06:27:21 AM »
Iím wondering about shift points. I currently shift about 6000 and it drops the next gear to around 5000/5200. Iím wondering if I should shift around 5500? See dynograph for reference.
See video for WOT run. https://instagram.com/p/BgnBwEihSqp/

No expert, but I would shift at 5500.
    Like Johny Cash said " seat time " you've only been out once , try different things

Offline PC_Hater

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2018, 10:59:41 AM »
Iím wondering about shift points. I currently shift about 6000 and it drops the next gear to around 5000/5200. Iím wondering if I should shift around 5500? See dynograph for reference.
See video for WOT run. https://instagram.com/p/BgnBwEihSqp/
Good, you have your dyno sheet.
The best rpm to change gear is almost certainly 6,250 rpm. Yes, red-line it in every gear!
The only way to be certain is to draw the 'waterfall' diagram of ftlbs at the rear wheel vs mph using the torque figures and the rear wheel gear ratio in each gear.

You need to know your engine sprocket tooth count, the clutch sprocket tooth count, the transmission pulley tooth count and the rear wheel pulley tooth count. Knowing the exact revs per mile figure for the rear tyre is useful for true accuracy, use 800 revs per mile until you can get an exact figure.

If you don't like the results you might be able to juggle the internal transmission gear ratios, you'll have to be guided by the Pros for that.



1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

Offline ThumperDeuce

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2018, 11:37:16 AM »
Iím wondering about shift points. I currently shift about 6000 and it drops the next gear to around 5000/5200. Iím wondering if I should shift around 5500? See dynograph for reference.
See video for WOT run. https://instagram.com/p/BgnBwEihSqp/
Good, you have your dyno sheet.
The best rpm to change gear is almost certainly 6,250 rpm. Yes, red-line it in every gear!
The only way to be certain is to draw the 'waterfall' diagram of ftlbs at the rear wheel vs mph using the torque figures and the rear wheel gear ratio in each gear.

You need to know your engine sprocket tooth count, the clutch sprocket tooth count, the transmission pulley tooth count and the rear wheel pulley tooth count. Knowing the exact revs per mile figure for the rear tyre is useful for true accuracy, use 800 revs per mile until you can get an exact figure.

If you don't like the results you might be able to juggle the internal transmission gear ratios, you'll have to be guided by the Pros for that.

Why red line it?  The engine is not making any more power after 5500 and you've begun to lose torque.
Idiots are important, why else would every village have one?

Offline PC_Hater

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2018, 12:08:59 PM »
The best I could manage is a 'generic' example for a car and an old 1340 Harley.
http://harleytechtalk.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=3298
hopefully that links to the spreadsheet.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/wayne/Main/Vehicle/Torque_HP.htm#Calculating%20Shift%20Points
is where it came from.

IF the waterfall diagram is smooth with crossovers between gears then you change at the crossover rpm. That varies from gear to gear.
If there is no crossover point - you redline it!
5 years ago I uploaded the diagram for my bike but it has vanished. If I can find it again I will upload it.

The car one below shows the gaps. Many Harleys are similar, hence the Baker 7 speed transmission.
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1942 WLA45 chop, 1999 FLTR(not I), 2000 1200S

Offline anImel

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2018, 02:40:15 PM »
Appears there is no crossover for me. Torque at redline higher than new gear. However after shift rpm hits about 5000 which is above peak torque for that gear. Think thatís due to primary gearing 1.53 vs stock 1.35? It pulls the way I shift now. Iíll try 500 or so less rpm and see.

Offline Jonny Cash

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2018, 05:03:26 AM »
For best ET try around 5500, should drop you into a range for highest average tq from shift to shift.  Tq is what accelerates the bike.  I find on my 5 speed bike the shift point is not the same in every gear to get the best ET.  Just keep trying different shift points and making passes. 
Accurate information is expensive, rare and difficult to find!

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2018, 03:15:46 PM »
For best ET try around 5500, should drop you into a range for highest average tq from shift to shift.  Tq is what accelerates the bike.  I find on my 5 speed bike the shift point is not the same in every gear to get the best ET.  Just keep trying different shift points and making passes.

 :up:
Great post and will apply most all transmissions except purpose built race gearing.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline N-gin

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Re: Looking for upgrades/tips from those that drag race?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2018, 12:14:53 PM »
When racing I found I gained MPH shifting early.

I'm not here cause of a path before me, Im here cause of the burnout left behind