Author Topic: Chamber Volume Changes  (Read 628 times)

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Offline dwjohnson

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Chamber Volume Changes
« on: February 11, 2018, 06:33:09 AM »
 Wondering what the general,  most typical increase in cc's come from a performance valve job with some light unshrouding ? For example, on a 95cc chamber on a 110 head, anyone seen an increase up towards 105 from only valve work?  Reused same stock valves.
 

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 06:54:35 AM »
Hell no. I can't speak for others but in my case adds about 1.5cc. The CVO 110 heads vary so I can't really pinpoint a CC they start at, I have seen them from 93-96.5cc without being touched.

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 07:13:49 AM »
 Well I guessed that was pretty far out there. But I have a combo that ended up with the CCP way way down and just trying to grasp what could have happened or gone wrong.
 110 heads, .030" gasket, with the 11cc dome 4" SE piston down .006 in cyl., in a 110" drop on kit on a 2011 Limited with IV cam closing at 47, rolling over at 120 w/ ACR's and 180 w/o. Big Boyz shows it should have been close to 205# Guess I'll leak it next but that's different from cranking pressures numbers, right?
 Guess it could be my gauge but never noticed a problem with it before.

Online DTTJGlide

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 09:56:55 AM »
How much running time on the engine? I did the figures on BB site & came in with 195-200.

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 10:54:01 AM »
 Running time is nil,just got it together Saturday, only 4 heat cycles so far. Think that will make a difference??? Not really broken in yet
 Not sure about your numbers from BB. I have checked it a bunch of times and it comes up 203 with a standard head gasket bore and 204 with an actual 4.010 gasket bore.
 I never cc'd the heads myself, the porter was supposed to deck them to 93 but I couldn't tell visually if that had been done or not.

Offline martinj

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 12:21:31 PM »
Running time is nil,just got it together Saturday, only 4 heat cycles so far. Think that will make a difference??? Not really broken in yet
 Not sure about your numbers from BB. I have checked it a bunch of times and it comes up 203 with a standard head gasket bore and 204 with an actual 4.010 gasket bore.
 I never cc'd the heads myself, the porter was supposed to deck them to 93 but I couldn't tell visually if that had been done or not.
It's always a good idea to either have the machinist verify to you what he actually did, or verify it for yourself. Personally, I would do both (and do), not because of a lack of trust, but just because things happen sometimes.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2018, 01:47:05 PM »
If the cam timing, front gears, was off a tooth this could happen.

Offline mike jesse

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 02:15:03 PM »
Throttle blade wide open during the test?

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 02:52:55 PM »
 Yes I did have the butterfly open. Thanks,good point.
 I agree with the comment of verifying, although thoughtful of you to bring it up now. However, it doesn't seem like the chamber could have been big enough to make this much of a difference. It would have to be 105 cc's (mathematically) if everything else is correct.
 The cams were never out or changed at this time so the timing is just as it was before. Plus I've got some miles on it now and seems to run great, not like something is wrong or off.
 Isn't it correct that the pistons from SE (22502-07B) have 11cc domes?
 Leak down showing frt at 2% and rear at 4%

Offline jsachs1

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 04:24:28 PM »
What's the valve protrusion. Maybe they were sunk to death, and the chamber was blended so there were no tunnels.  :nix:
John

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 04:45:37 PM »
 Again did not check it as it was also done for me by the head guy. But the valve heads in the chamber side look to be "proud" you know, high or sticking out a wee bit. Don't think they were sunk much. Just the slightest bit of unshouding around the intakes, not even all the way around.
 Am trying to reach out to the guy but no response as of yet. Maybe if he remembers he can shed some light for me. Doesn't make any sense unless my gauge is off.

Online DTTJGlide

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 06:24:11 PM »
You didn't say in your OP that the heads were supposed to be 93cc, I was adding 1.5 to 95.5 to get those #s. If it's running good I'd try to borrow a different gauge, it's happened before.

Offline N-gin

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 08:39:05 PM »
Deck height was checked right?
I see that most of the dome pistons are actually .010 down.
I'm not here cause of a path before me, Im here cause of the burnout left behind

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 08:29:19 AM »
 Yes I did check deck height, along with a real squish check while claying the valves. I had .006" down using straight edge and feeler gauge, and .036-.038" squish. That clay is tricky to measure when it's thin.
  Have borrowed another gauge, will know more tonight.
 Thanks for the ideas and tips.

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 03:15:53 PM »
 yEE HAW. Glad to report it seems my gauge is off. Borrowed a MAC gauge and it shows 200 frt and 202 rear. That's very close to the calculated numbers so I feel a good bit better about the combo and build now.  Now wonder how long mine has been off. Seems I would have noticed a 20 pound issue before now though.
  Have some break in miles on it now but not impressed with the Head Quarters cam. Anyone used the HQ-600-HC?  It has such low TDC's, especially intake.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 03:18:41 PM »
 :up: :up: congratulations.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline kd

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 03:42:04 PM »
 
Quote from: dwjohnson link=topic :hyst:=102713.msg1212447#msg1212447 date=1518563753
yEE HAW. Glad to report it seems my gauge is off. Borrowed a MAC gauge and it shows 200 frt and 202 rear. That's very close to the calculated numbers so I feel a good bit better about the combo and build now.  Now wonder how long mine has been off. Seems I would have noticed a 20 pound issue before now though.
  Have some break in miles on it now but not impressed with the Head Quarters cam. Anyone used the HQ-600-HC?  It has such low TDC's, especially intake.


:hyst:   :hyst:  Hmmmm, not impressed eh?  Guess ya gotta go bigger eh?  Your startin to fit right in here dw. 
KD

Offline N-gin

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 12:25:11 AM »
Quote from: dwjohnson link=topic :hyst:=102713.msg1212447#msg1212447 date=1518563753
yEE HAW. Glad to report it seems my gauge is off. Borrowed a MAC gauge and it shows 200 frt and 202 rear. That's very close to the calculated numbers so I feel a good bit better about the combo and build now.  Now wonder how long mine has been off. Seems I would have noticed a 20 pound issue before now though.
  Have some break in miles on it now but not impressed with the Head Quarters cam. Anyone used the HQ-600-HC?  It has such low TDC's, especially intake.


:hyst:   :hyst:  Hmmmm, not impressed eh?  Guess ya gotta go bigger eh?  Your startin to fit right in here dw.

 :hug:
I'm not here cause of a path before me, Im here cause of the burnout left behind

Offline dwjohnson

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 04:25:19 PM »
 Well I suppose I may be a little hard to impress with a big ole full dressed bagger on the street. I have a 100" Sporty that I race with Marty and Jane in the Hot Street class. Runs mid to high 9's at about 135 so...., although I'm not even competitive in that class.  But I really love my big street bike and it runs strong (even better now) and me and the wife can usually keep up with most everybody, I just like leading the pack while having fun doing it.
 Will try to get to the dyno here soon and then maybe we'll know what I really got. I know,I know, I need a full tune, working on that too.
 Thanks again for all the help,advice and info.
    BTW, anyone know of a good hooking tire for the stock 180-16 rear wheels?
 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 04:29:38 PM by dwjohnson »

Offline N-gin

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Re: Chamber Volume Changes
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 12:09:03 AM »
Well I suppose I may be a little hard to impress with a big ole full dressed bagger on the street. I have a 100" Sporty that I race with Marty and Jane in the Hot Street class. Runs mid to high 9's at about 135 so...., although I'm not even competitive in that class.  But I really love my big street bike and it runs strong (even better now) and me and the wife can usually keep up with most everybody, I just like leading the pack while having fun doing it.
 Will try to get to the dyno here soon and then maybe we'll know what I really got. I know,I know, I need a full tune, working on that too.
 Thanks again for all the help,advice and info.
    BTW, anyone know of a good hooking tire for the stock 180-16 rear wheels?
 

Ive been hearing Shinko is pretty sticky but also wears fast.. but that goes hand in hand
I'm not here cause of a path before me, Im here cause of the burnout left behind