Author Topic: andrews 54h cr  (Read 1097 times)

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Offline sisco683

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andrews 54h cr
« on: February 12, 2018, 07:03:06 PM »
Hi
Building a 103cu with andrews 54h.Planning streetport with bump in compression.At Sea level I see alot of guys going 10.2:1.This bike might see 1000' elevation,Almost all riding will be between 3000' and 9000'.
Question being what would be the idea cr at altitude I was thinking 10.5:1 with comp releases.
Bike 2009 softail classic big sucker a.c. python staggard duals.Gonna keep stock valve sizes.
Thanks

Offline oldhippie

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 08:22:50 PM »
While Iím happy enough running 54s in my old build at @205ccp, I think there are better more modern cams out there these days...

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 08:46:58 PM »
10.5 with a killer tune.....should be fine

Don't waste your money on BS stock valve "street port"

At a minimum do a 1.85" intake valve and make sure the guides are addressed and replaced if needed

Stock springs are fine


Online PoorUB

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 05:50:47 AM »
While Iím happy enough running 54s in my old build at @205ccp, I think there are better more modern cams out there these days...

Wow! when were the 54's released, with the 96"? Ten years and they have fallen off the favorite cam of the month list?
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 10:27:46 AM »
If the world only consisted of crestline Ohio.......you would only have the option of 54's and 37's and cast iron guides

Offline sisco683

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 06:22:55 PM »
thanks for feed back,
I know its advised to get headwork for a 54 cam,But I thought keeping stock valve size might help keep torque curve a little lower on the rpm scale.
also is 0.37 squish band reasonable,or is it worth it to turn the cylinders to "0" deck height?I do have to hone the jugs anyway probably wont be that big a deal.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 06:41:59 PM »
thanks for feed back,
I know its advised to get headwork for a 54 cam,But I thought keeping stock valve size might help keep torque curve a little lower on the rpm scale.
also is 0.37 squish band reasonable,or is it worth it to turn the cylinders to "0" deck height?I do have to hone the jugs anyway probably wont be that big a deal.

With stock heads install a +4 gear with those 54 cams, your going to run out of air before you run out of cam anyway and it will come in a little sooner, have more low and mid range and you will still make the same hp. If you do heads later you can still run the cam straight up by removing the gear.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline TorQuePimp

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 11:06:52 PM »
thanks for feed back,
I know its advised to get headwork for a 54 cam,But I thought keeping stock valve size might help keep torque curve a little lower on the rpm scale.
also is 0.37 squish band reasonable,or is it worth it to turn the cylinders to "0" deck height?I do have to hone the jugs anyway probably wont be that big a deal.

Stock exhaust valve with the right work....sure

Stock intake ? Too small

A .045-.060 larger intake valve is not a hindrance to torque....the opposite

Offline Gerry Smith

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 03:55:28 AM »
Just a thought look at the  Cycle Rama cams. I went with the 575 cams on my 106 big bore with ported heads and 2 into 1 header. Going into the shop soon.
Just do it while you can.

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 04:51:59 AM »
This is 103 TW54 build, 10.2CR @ ~1000' altitude, and still a little "right sided", but not bad. Components listed in the notes. You can see he needed more than the SE clutch spring he had.
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 05:54:39 AM »
Here is a 54h advanced 4 degrees with heads matched and stock valves. As you stated you could add .2 compression for your altitude.

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=63670.msg681040#msg681040
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline FTW359

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 05:56:34 AM »
This is 103 TW54 build, 10.2CR @ ~1000' altitude, and still a little "right sided", but not bad. Components listed in the notes. You can see he needed more than the SE clutch spring he had.
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
What was done to the heads if any.

Offline sisco683

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 07:13:09 AM »
This is 103 TW54 build, 10.2CR @ ~1000' altitude, and still a little "right sided", but not bad. Components listed in the notes. You can see he needed more than the SE clutch spring he had.
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Nice ! 110tq was going to be my target,Just so everyone knows the heads are going to Big Boyz to have Bean do a port job with cr's ,chambers to cc @80cc.0.030 head gasket.That calculates to 173ccr @5000'

Online Bigbluff

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 07:57:50 AM »
Here are two curves from my '09 build with the Andrews 54h cam. The only difference in the curves is the exhaust system that was bolted on...and the date the tunes were done. Red curve was with V&H Propipe Chrome 2>1. Blue curve was V&H Power Dual Headers with V&H 4" Twin Slash Round mufflers. Same dyno, same tuner...Joe Lyons (before he opened his new shop). Heads were done by Don at http://www.hdstreetperformance.com/. I was very happy with the build.
In all that time he was riding through the desert he could have named that horse

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 03:35:57 PM »
Here is a 54h advanced 4 degrees with heads matched and stock valves. As you stated you could add .2 compression for your altitude.

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=63670.msg681040#msg681040


Here is the graph that went with the tread above.
As said, stock valves just a seat cut and ports cleaned and matched
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline sisco683

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 04:03:03 PM »
WOW
I would frame any of the dyno charts I've seen on this thread.Very impressive to someone riding a stage 1 96".
I feel good about my cam selection,I'll probably go with no advance as I'm riding a 09 fxstc.
Good to know if I want more low end I can adjust it with advance gear.
I just want it to be awesome 2 up passing traffic.

Online PoorUB

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 08:27:26 PM »
WOW
I would frame any of the dyno charts I've seen on this thread.Very impressive to someone riding a stage 1 96".
I feel good about my cam selection,I'll probably go with no advance as I'm riding a 09 fxstc.
Good to know if I want more low end I can adjust it with advance gear.
I just want it to be awesome 2 up passing traffic.

It is a 107".
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 08:45:41 PM »
WOW
I would frame any of the dyno charts I've seen on this thread.Very impressive to someone riding a stage 1 96".
I feel good about my cam selection,I'll probably go with no advance as I'm riding a 09 fxstc.
Good to know if I want more low end I can adjust it with advance gear.
I just want it to be awesome 2 up passing traffic.

It is a 107".

 :scratch:

OK I see there is one 107" posted by Bigbluff
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Online PoorUB

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 10:49:47 PM »
WOW
I would frame any of the dyno charts I've seen on this thread.Very impressive to someone riding a stage 1 96".
I feel good about my cam selection,I'll probably go with no advance as I'm riding a 09 fxstc.
Good to know if I want more low end I can adjust it with advance gear.
I just want it to be awesome 2 up passing traffic.

It is a 107".

 :scratch:

OK I see there is one 107" posted by Bigbluff

I guess I was not completely sure which post he was talking about, but I don't see any 96" mentioned here either.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2018, 03:46:52 AM »
WOW
I would frame any of the dyno charts I've seen on this thread.Very impressive to someone riding a stage 1 96".
I feel good about my cam selection,I'll probably go with no advance as I'm riding a 09 fxstc.
Good to know if I want more low end I can adjust it with advance gear.
I just want it to be awesome 2 up passing traffic.

It is a 107".

 :scratch:

OK I see there is one 107" posted by Bigbluff

I guess I was not completely sure which post he was talking about, but I don't see any 96" mentioned here either.

Impressive to him, he has been riding his stage 1 96", he is building it into a 103"
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline BVHOG

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 05:32:21 AM »
The 54 was a great cam when it came out and is still a great cam. When it first came out everyone was putting it in their 96 inch motors which was to put it mildly kind of so so results.  That cam works best with a little compression and despite what you might read don't discount those "Street" heads. Have seen plenty combos that did quite well with those type of heads. I see no problem running that cam at 10.5 but like always the timing part of the tune will have to be done correctly.  If you are going to mess around with advance gears etc then it is time to pick a new cam.
If you don't have a sense of humor you probably have no sense at all.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 05:43:08 AM »
The 54 was a great cam when it came out and is still a great cam. When it first came out everyone was putting it in their 96 inch motors which was to put it mildly kind of so so results.  That cam works best with a little compression and despite what you might read don't discount those "Street" heads. Have seen plenty combos that did quite well with those type of heads. I see no problem running that cam at 10.5 but like always the timing part of the tune will have to be done correctly.  If you are going to mess around with advance gears etc then it is time to pick a new cam.

This is a great statement every time you make it here.

Please tell me what is wrong with indexing the cam timing to the engine?

What specifically is the difference between a cam ground to a specific timing and a cam installed to the exact same timing by advancing or retarding it with a gear?

Is a cam installed correctly when a degree wheel is used to assure the timing events happen in the engine exactly when they are specified on the cam card?

Is a cam installed incorrectly when it is timed to make the most efficient power curve an engine is capable of?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 07:28:39 AM »
You can get about + or -1.5į wobble from a loose keyway fit on the stock gear.

Offline BVHOG

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 06:56:31 PM »
The 54 was a great cam when it came out and is still a great cam. When it first came out everyone was putting it in their 96 inch motors which was to put it mildly kind of so so results.  That cam works best with a little compression and despite what you might read don't discount those "Street" heads. Have seen plenty combos that did quite well with those type of heads. I see no problem running that cam at 10.5 but like always the timing part of the tune will have to be done correctly.  If you are going to mess around with advance gears etc then it is time to pick a new cam.

This is a great statement every time you make it here.

Please tell me what is wrong with indexing the cam timing to the engine?

What specifically is the difference between a cam ground to a specific timing and a cam installed to the exact same timing by advancing or retarding it with a gear?

Is a cam installed correctly when a degree wheel is used to assure the timing events happen in the engine exactly when they are specified on the cam card?

Is a cam installed incorrectly when it is timed to make the most efficient power curve an engine is capable of?
This topic just came up last week here in the shop, with the twincam arrangement there isn't much you can do about the front cam if there is a difference from front to rear, with the new Mil8 engine it will be feasible to degree the cam to exactly what it was intended for if you so choose to.  Advance a 54H 4 degrees and tell me what cam it is VERY close to.
If you don't have a sense of humor you probably have no sense at all.

Offline Dogbone45ACP

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Re: andrews 54h cr
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2018, 02:49:34 AM »
Andrews 57. I think the 54 has less aggressive ramps. I advanced a 54N several years ago because I wanted a higher lift 37. The 57 was not available at that time. The bike is a 95" with HDSP heads. It runs well with no valve train noise.  Bunch of cams out there now that would do the same thing.