Author Topic: lithium ion batteries.....  (Read 5124 times)

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Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #150 on: January 30, 2018, 08:42:23 AM »
Lead battery chargers have a pulsating, de-sulfating phase. Lithium chargers do not.

So I'm assuming the charging system does not have this phase, and therefore is safe for lithium batteries?
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Offline FXDBI

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #151 on: January 30, 2018, 09:06:27 AM »
Lead battery chargers have a pulsating, de-sulfating phase. Lithium chargers do not.

So I'm assuming the charging system does not have this phase, and therefore is safe for lithium batteries?

That is correct.  Bob

Online Ancient

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #152 on: January 30, 2018, 11:42:43 AM »
The only thing that worries me about LI batteries is the price of admission. If not for that I'd be using them.
Greg

Offline Nastytls

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #153 on: January 30, 2018, 01:19:45 PM »
They’re not too bad anymore. I got my ATX 780cca for well under $400. The improvement in starting is incredible and worth every penny.

Offline 92flhtcu

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #154 on: January 30, 2018, 04:05:45 PM »
The Twin Power bagger is $299.95 msrp
Is it the end-all of the lead acid battery, not anytime soon, however where the extra cca is required, or just the faster spin up makes ya happy, or a guy is trying to shave some ballast from a bike, they fit the bill. The specific maintainer is $39.95 msrp, so all in, is still not that terrible
Need a bigger garage

Online 1workinman

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #155 on: January 30, 2018, 04:07:45 PM »
   my one year old battery doesn't spin my engine over fast enough for me. It sometime struggles on that initial hit of the starter button and hesitates for a second...then turns the engine over.
  I bought one of these Twin Power Lithium- Ion batteries today. Hopefully this will have no trouble turning the engine over.

(Attachment Link)

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  Ray the battery that you had was a lithium ion battery ? I remember I think lol reading you bought one a while back . I have considered buying one but I only drive the heavy sleds lol even with the warmed over motors , I would consider buying one if it was a way to help start the engine although I don't have a problem now. I don't mind spending a few dollars If it is worth while . Thanks for the advice Ray look forward to seeing how it works out

Offline No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #156 on: January 30, 2018, 04:44:36 PM »
  Jim...yes I have the Twin Power lithium ion battery in my bike. It has 625cca's
I've put the maintainer on it a total of 4 different times this winter so far. It's never taken over two minutes to say the battery was up to full charge. That with the bike sitting in an un-heated, non-insulated barn with a concrete floor. Temp's have been down into single digits for days at a time. It's held up nicely thru the cold temp's so far.
  I bought mine off E-Bay for $255.00...with free shipping.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Online 1workinman

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #157 on: January 30, 2018, 05:33:23 PM »
  Jim...yes I have the Twin Power lithium ion battery in my bike. It has 625cca's
I've put the maintainer on it a total of 4 different times this winter so far. It's never taken over two minutes to say the battery was up to full charge. That with the bike sitting in an un-heated, non-insulated barn with a concrete floor. Temp's have been down into single digits for days at a time. It's held up nicely thru the cold temp's so far.
  I bought mine off E-Bay for $255.00...with free shipping.
  Ok thanks when mine goes belly up I give that a try , nothing like being off some where and the battery dies . I know it not the same but I had a gel cell on my Lincoln pipe liner for seemed like 9 years impressive to me

Online Ironheadmike

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #158 on: February 02, 2018, 03:35:34 AM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

You were asked if you have a cell phone or laptop, do you? Lithium batteries are literally everywhere without issues.

Making outlandish statements like that does not help you persuade others on your opinion. You only make yourself look foolish when you make wild, over the top statements like that.
No I do not own a cell phone or a lap top or any battery operated tools . I know that where I work we had to build a separate building , like a powder room, to store them and they have to be shipped separately . I have seen what they do to a 6 ton piece of equipment . So no I'm not foolish . I just don't trust them .

Offline No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #159 on: February 02, 2018, 03:58:53 AM »
   you know...man has came a long way over time.
We don't use rocks as wheels anymore.
What harm did a lithium battery do to a 6 ton piece of equipment?  :scratch:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Hossamania

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #160 on: February 02, 2018, 04:20:06 AM »
No cell phone?
No laptop?
You're my hero!
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Offline kd

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #161 on: February 02, 2018, 05:55:03 AM »
DO NOT USE lithium batteries . At work we had to build a separate building to store them . They WILL blow up .

You were asked if you have a cell phone or laptop, do you? Lithium batteries are literally everywhere without issues.

Making outlandish statements like that does not help you persuade others on your opinion. You only make yourself look foolish when you make wild, over the top statements like that.
No I do not own a cell phone or a lap top or any battery operated tools . I know that where I work we had to build a separate building , like a powder room, to store them and they have to be shipped separately . I have seen what they do to a 6 ton piece of equipment . So no I'm not foolish . I just don't trust them .


Lots of large shops (like the one I used to work in) have dedicated "battery rooms" for storage and maintenance charging with firewalls, heavy doors and good venting. I guess we shouldn't use lead / acid power either.  :scratch: They (lead / acid) have shipping restrictions too. Google up a few lead / acid explosion videos (car battery explosion) .  :dgust: BTW, gasoline is highly explosive. Lets stop using combustion engines in our cars and bikes. Oh ya, the alternative is battery power. I'm sure you get my point. Pick your poison, get educated and be safe.  .... or move into the mountains and live off grid.
KD

Offline No Cents

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #162 on: February 02, 2018, 08:42:42 AM »
   Before I retired I worked for an electric utility.
We had to store everything from gasoline, batteries, to WD-40 in safety cabinets in the shop. Anything marked flammable, or explosive was stored in these cabinets. Hell...OSHA even wanted us to store the chainsaw mix on the bucket trucks inside a bin that was marked as "explosive".  :doh:   Paint, WD-40, wasp stopper, and even Windex, etc was required to be stored in that bin. In 30 years of service there I never did see any of those things explode...or ignite.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

Offline Nastytls

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #163 on: February 02, 2018, 09:08:35 AM »
People choose what they’re going to be freaked out by based on their personal biases. As said above, anything can be dangerous in the right circumstances. Traditional lead batteries can be encredibly dangerous.

Offline kd

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2018, 09:34:19 AM »
I've watched 2 people blow the tops off from improper jump starting technique.  :dgust: Both individuals were lucky to not lose their eyesight. Their clothing, .... different story.  :crook:
KD

Online Ironheadmike

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #165 on: February 02, 2018, 09:55:47 AM »
   you know...man has came a long way over time.
We don't use rocks as wheels anymore.
What harm did a lithium battery do to a 6 ton piece of equipment?  :scratch:
It blew up a street sweeper to where you couldn't tell what it was .

Offline Nastytls

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #166 on: February 02, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »
It’s not C4. I find that hard believe, unless something was done to it intentionally to make that happen.

Offline hattitude

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #167 on: February 02, 2018, 04:57:46 PM »
My main concern with Lithium batteries, is on long trips......

Let's say to you are going cross-country with 5 or 6 days, riding 4+ hours a day....?

Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?

I may be missing something, but if you put it in a bike that you use for multi-day trips... won't you be damaging the battery?

Offline turboprop

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #168 on: February 02, 2018, 06:06:15 PM »
My main concern with Lithium batteries, is on long trips......

Let's say to you are going cross-country with 5 or 6 days, riding 4+ hours a day....?

Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?

I may be missing something, but if you put it in a bike that you use for multi-day trips... won't you be damaging the battery?

I have ridden coast to coast several times with a lithium battery in the bike. Miraculously, the sky didnt fall. That was several years. That early, Anti-Gravity battery is still going strong, spinning a high compression, carburated 124". No issues.
 
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline boooby1744

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #169 on: February 02, 2018, 06:20:33 PM »
I got the Twin power battery almost 2 years ago. I charged it with an Optimate TM 290 5 amp device. It performs 8 tests/cycles,it took 16 hours to finish! Haven’t used it since and all good. Did a couple of multi day road trips. I just make sure I take my Antigravity xp1 with me at all times.

Offline pwmorris

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #170 on: February 02, 2018, 06:26:59 PM »
Search carefully....very carefully, and look back at posts several years ago as to who actually ran lithium and who didn't in their Harley's years ago and decide.
Bullshit on lithium improvement-they are basically the same as 5-10 years ago.
Only difference is who had the balls to run them, who didn't, and who were the haters who didn't do squat but flap their gums.
Truth.

Period-

I was one of the the leaders (first on this forum running multiple lithium batteries in my bikes -street and strip-starting 10 years ago), and getting hated hard years ago-slammed by the wannabes in posts on this forum for my running lithium in my bikes. All, yeah critics, ALL were by posers, dreamers, sheep-those who actually NEVER ran lithium in their bikes ("have you run lithium in your Harley???"....".well...no but I heard bad things about them!!!".....lol..)
 All good though, as when you step out front in the line of fire, stick your head out and charge out of the foxhole, you may take hits, and risk getting your head blown off, but the weak, crouched and afraid....who stay behind while other test the waters, will always, always (Harley's, or anything in life),  be known as followers. Lead, follow......or get the F out of the way-

Are you the Sherperd or the sheep? Or, what I've seen in the last few years.....sheep following the Shepard who now think they are leaders ("Things seem good now! "I'm speaking up!"), when they lived in the flock of sheep and didn't have the balls to step out and risk being a Shepard till everything was SAFE-

Flash forward to now.......
90% all good and just a trickle of the haters around, who will soon disappear like a fart in the wind....

Lithium is the future and lead is dead, very soon.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 06:41:36 PM by pwmorris »

Offline harley_cruiser

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #171 on: February 03, 2018, 04:01:40 AM »
Everything I've read says it's bad to overcharge them, keeping them fully charged stresses the battery & shortens service life, and the dedicated Lithium battery chargers stop charging when the batteries get to about 85% of full charge....

So how does a Harley charging system, charging a lithium battery in the above profile, NOT hurt the battery?
That is the job of the voltage regulator to keep the voltage charge to the battery/bike between 13.5 and 14.5.
The battery is for storage in overload times and for starting, the alternator supplies the current to run the bike.
When the charging  voltage goes above 14.5 the regulator regulates the current going to the alternator and the alternator reduces it output.
When the voltage falls below 13.5 then the regulator increases output to the alternator.
Your regulator does not care if the battery is lithium or lead, you can overcharge a lead battery as well if your regulator is overcharging, and will boil the battery.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 05:29:39 AM by Harley_Cruiser Rocker Lockers »

Offline Will-Run

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #172 on: February 03, 2018, 07:08:40 AM »
Search carefully....very carefully, and look back at posts several years ago as to who actually ran lithium and who didn't in their Harley's years ago and decide.
Bullshit on lithium improvement-they are basically the same as 5-10 years ago.
Only difference is who had the balls to run them, who didn't, and who were the haters who didn't do squat but flap their gums.
Truth.

Period-

I was one of the the leaders (first on this forum running multiple lithium batteries in my bikes -street and strip-starting 10 years ago), and getting hated hard years ago-slammed by the wannabes in posts on this forum for my running lithium in my bikes. All, yeah critics, ALL were by posers, dreamers, sheep-those who actually NEVER ran lithium in their bikes ("have you run lithium in your Harley???"....".well...no but I heard bad things about them!!!".....lol..)
 All good though, as when you step out front in the line of fire, stick your head out and charge out of the foxhole, you may take hits, and risk getting your head blown off, but the weak, crouched and afraid....who stay behind while other test the waters, will always, always (Harley's, or anything in life),  be known as followers. Lead, follow......or get the F out of the way-

Are you the Sherperd or the sheep? Or, what I've seen in the last few years.....sheep following the Shepard who now think they are leaders ("Things seem good now! "I'm speaking up!"), when they lived in the flock of sheep and didn't have the balls to step out and risk being a Shepard till everything was SAFE-

Flash forward to now.......
90% all good and just a trickle of the haters around, who will soon disappear like a fart in the wind....

Lithium is the future and lead is dead, very soon.
:up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
Lean Angle, " Is Life."

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2018, 08:35:27 PM »
I ride through all winter. I have heated clothes.

My Dyna powers my clothes to the point they get way too hot. (There is a button to turn them down, fortunately!)

I think the Dyna charging system is > 1,000 watts.

On my Sportster, the clothes get warm but nowhere close to too hot. I have to assume the charging system is less watts.

So, the question: If I put a lithium ion battery in my Sportster:

Will my clothes get warmer?
Will I over-discharge the battery?

I have a JW Speaker LED headlight which uses less watts, and I plan to get LED turn signals/running lights. Right now my Sportster’s lead acid battery does not over-discharge even after hours of running my clothes. If I turn the heated pants off I can get the heated jacket warmer, so that kinda tells me that I need more amps. Maybe I need a stator with more windings?

If a lithium ion battery will help that would be cool.

Offline joelp34252

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Re: lithium ion batteries.....
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2018, 09:00:55 PM »
My take on the Harley charging systems,at least on the older bikes,is the alternator is running 100% all the time. The regulator shunts the charge to the ground when the battery gets up to charge. I may be wrong on this, but that is my understanding on a permanent magnet alternator.

Joel 2001 FLHT