Author Topic: Jets EV27  (Read 2078 times)

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Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2018, 11:09:46 AM »
Mine would not ever run that lean on the front.
It would be making nasty sounds under load at low RPM
I dont know much but it would seem to me you are pretty skinny there, Esp if high-dynamic  CR.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2018, 11:11:11 AM »
No-
I am going to the dual set up after all this :
The argument that one cylinder is so far off, that AFR is so inaccurate. (*edit- upon some research, the AEM compensates and translates)
I now want to know the real story.
I am a life learner and right now this argument is raging on several forums at all times..
For me, I want the one real answer.
After all the money I have strewn across this bike and the floor it occupies what is another 400 bucks?
I am moving my ports this season, going to 50 deg cut, and a bunch of other crap.
The little Evo is in an evolution of its namesake with me .
I want the truth.

This was your best post to date.
If you actually do this you will be better off for it.
Now how are you going to optimize your ignition timing?

I run Daytona dual plug T.T.
It pretty flexible
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Amateur engineering with bad math.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2018, 11:15:36 AM »
No-
I am going to the dual set up after all this :
The argument that one cylinder is so far off, that AFR is so inaccurate. (*edit- upon some research, the AEM compensates and translates)
I now want to know the real story.
I am a life learner and right now this argument is raging on several forums at all times..
For me, I want the one real answer.
After all the money I have strewn across this bike and the floor it occupies what is another 400 bucks?
I am moving my ports this season, going to 50 deg cut, and a bunch of other crap.
The little Evo is in an evolution of its namesake with me .
I want the truth.

This was your best post to date.
If you actually do this you will be better off for it.
Now how are you going to optimize your ignition timing?

I run Daytona dual plug T.T.
It pretty flexible

I agree it is very tunable but How you gonna tune it on the street?
You see there is no bolt on gauge for setting optimum timing.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2018, 11:19:46 AM »
Mine would not ever run that lean on the front.
It would be making nasty sounds under load at low RPM
I dont know much but it would seem to me you are pretty skinny there, Esp if high-dynamic  CR.


That was an example of a bike that came in from another shop that does not sample afr on carb bikes. The customer said it ran good but complained it ran hotter after he had it tuned. regardless of the AFR the example was for the difference between front and rear and which was richer.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2018, 11:24:45 AM »
1FSTRK

Is this a test?
It been running on the street.
Had 20K on it until the pinion gear let lose, all was ok.  (dam straight cut shaft)
Even so, no damage done well.....slightly bent valves  Cant even tell by eyeball..
I can see a mar on the tops of the pistons..I think I got away with it for once.
So I will sell them on EBAY///..............J.K .! :wink:
It ready for top end anyway as I gear them for a 20K TBO b4 tear dwn.
How are you going to tune yours?
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #105 on: February 14, 2018, 11:26:59 AM »
deleted
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #106 on: February 14, 2018, 11:29:43 AM »
Mine would not ever run that lean on the front.
It would be making nasty sounds under load at low RPM
I dont know much but it would seem to me you are pretty skinny there, Esp if high-dynamic  CR.


That was an example of a bike that came in from another shop that does not sample afr on carb bikes. The customer said it ran good but complained it ran hotter after he had it tuned. regardless of the AFR the example was for the difference between front and rear and which was richer.

It is way too lean for High CR.
i have no clue how it would not be tinkling all over the place.
Must sound like a pop corn machine.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline turboprop

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2018, 12:22:20 PM »
No sense getting worked up, you have to read between the lines, its a forum and will never be avoidable. Where's your pic lol.

Here is a pic of one of my FXRs with an RB Racing AFR gauge. Despite using a narrow band sensor, this gauge worked very well and was a big help.

As previously discussed, an AFR gauge is not needed for a little 80" with a bolt in cam, but run some ductile cylinders, with a 4-⅝" stroke crank at 11.5 on the street. In this application the AFR gauge shifts from being a toy/gimmick to a much needed tool as it is not uncommon to scuff pistons with ductile cylinders if the tune is off. Unlike an aluminum cylinder, ductile will not expand nearly as much when it is hot and is much less forgiving of tuning issues.



https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/rsrgauge5.jpg
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Online ecir50

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #108 on: February 14, 2018, 12:55:32 PM »
nice, I was wanting to see a pic of thumpers ride.

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #109 on: February 14, 2018, 01:01:57 PM »
Like i said , mine is in pieces.
I have the AEM mounted up on the handlebar near throttle  EZ to read.
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Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Deye76

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2018, 04:23:03 PM »
"an AFR gauge is not needed for a little 80" with a bolt in cam,"

What I and JW113 said 4 pages ago.
East Tenn.
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Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 04:32:48 PM »
"an AFR gauge is not needed for a little 80" with a bolt in cam,"

What I and JW113 said 4 pages ago.

 :up:
Yes but look at all we cover in the meantime.  :wink:
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline Deye76

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #112 on: February 14, 2018, 04:43:03 PM »
It is winter, isn't it.  :teeth:
East Tenn.
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Online ecir50

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #113 on: February 14, 2018, 05:28:32 PM »
84 degree high today here :).

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #114 on: February 14, 2018, 05:47:11 PM »
"an AFR gauge is not needed for a little 80" with a bolt in cam,"

What I and JW113 said 4 pages ago.
You speak with such authority
How do you know if the slide is not worn out?
You are not there.
How is the internet is full of people that know everything?
How do you know his whole freeking carb is even somewhat correct?
Like I said B4 these bikes and carbs are getting old.
The needle may be wrong, clip in the wrong place.
EC ETC ETC
A sure-fire way to "see" is to read the exhaust.
Just because someone is running the anemic 8.5 CR does not mean they could not benefit.
No , they are not in near as much danger as a performance engine, but much can be learned and adjusted.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline speedzter

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #115 on: February 14, 2018, 06:54:02 PM »
It was mentioned as to how you tune both cylinders.
Now I know people here are generally reasonably intelligent, and know it is a compromise on a Carb' bike.
My process - measure the front and adjust jetting to a safe point 13.5 idle, 14 cruise, 13 WOT.
Move the sensor to the rear and measure.
Depending on how the rear is, rejet to make it safe if needed, and repeat over.
You can see up to a point difference between front and rear, and it can be either way depending on the combo.
You need to split the difference, and one will end up a little rich, one a little lean.

Here's a good post I had bookmarked: http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=8770.0
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:05:23 PM by speedzter »

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #116 on: February 14, 2018, 07:06:18 PM »
It was mentioned as to how you tune both cylinders.
Now I know peolpe here are generally reasonably intelligent, and know it is a compromise on a Carb' bike.
My process - measure the front and adjust jetting to a safe point 13.5 idle, 14 cruise, 13 WOT.
Move the sensor to the rear and measure.
Depending on how the rear is, rejet to make it safe if needed, and repeat over.
You can see up to a point difference between front and rear, and it can be either way depending on the combo.
You need to split the difference, and one will end up a little rich, one a little lean.

 :up: :up:
Here is a man that has tuned street bikes on the street.
Many times one cylinder is on the verge of too lean when the other is on the verge of too rich.
Early stock heads are the worst for doing this followed by some of the poor choices in exhausts.
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Offline Burnout

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2018, 07:23:38 AM »

Early stock heads are the worst for doing this followed by some of the poor choices in exhausts.

I will venture to say 95% of the AM exhaust systems are junk regarding the balance F to R.
The worst exhaust in creation is found on the baggers!
The VE difference of the two cylinders changes depending on RPM. It goes from bad, to really bad, then only half bad.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2018, 07:39:39 AM »
I do not have time to test everything..Bearly time to study what I do.'

I have Thunder Headers, They pull really well and everything I have read says they are pretty good set up.
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Offline Heatnbeat

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #119 on: February 15, 2018, 07:04:45 PM »
I'm with Thumper. When you put an AFR on it you are amazed at how much variance there is. It can seem like it runs fine but the mixture across the whole spectrum is far from ideal. In fact once you start to look at it you almost wonder how carbs even work at all.

Offline JW113

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #120 on: February 15, 2018, 08:39:25 PM »
Ha ha ha ha !!! That is the best post on this entire topic!
 :hyst:

Yes, amazing indeed. And yet, some of us seem to get from point A to point B, with a great running machine, day to day, for years on end, and even more amazing, no AFR gauge. Will miracles never cease?

-JW
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Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #121 on: February 15, 2018, 11:10:40 PM »
Ha ha ha ha !!! That is the best post on this entire topic!
 :hyst:

Yes, amazing indeed. And yet, some of us seem to get from point A to point B, with a great running machine, day to day, for years on end, and even more amazing, no AFR gauge. Will miracles never cease?

-JW
Lets face it, Most Harley riders Harley will never see the other side of 45MPH. Ok that's a small exaggeration, but not by much.
When I have to brake for them,  coming down over the Cascade Pass it is pretty frustrating!
Never mind I am in a pokey 18 wheeler!   :emoGroan:
Ever been out on a Saturday and had to pass 2, 3, or 60 of these clowns?
This has happened to me more than once -a bunch plugging up, and putting up the roads, having no clue, WHITE KNUCKLED, not smart enough to move to hail over!
My point?
These bikes could be jetted lean fat whatever as most these people never get to the main jet!
So jetting for them is as much a waste of time as fitting me for hi Heels.
Yes, year after year they putt around and would not know if they were on a hot rod or a moped, but they are status quo and so kool!
There is the few of us that demand more.
Maybe we are all here.
I demand 1.25 per cube as a baseline from an NA engine. I am hoping for 1.5 this year.
Jetting is pretty important to me, and it would be for a stock bike too if they used it much.Or Understood it much.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Online 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2018, 04:03:40 AM »

I demand 1.25 per cube as a baseline from an NA engine. I am hoping for 1.5 this year.
Jetting is pretty important to me, and it would be for a stock bike too if they used it much.Or Understood it much.

I love this thread, more twists and turns than Deals Gap and now another one.
Would please give the engine specs on this 1.25 hp/ci evo you've been riding and then the specs on the 1.5 hp/ci you are building? I would also be very interested in what carb you run because we  know it is not a jetted stock CV making 1.25 hp/ci on a 80ci Evo.
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #123 on: February 16, 2018, 05:45:56 AM »
1.25 hp per cubic inch is pretty aggressive on a stock based motor.
I run a 95" twin cam that hit 100 horse with heads, carb, etc. To get to 113 horsepower would require quite a few more mods that are beyond the norm, much higher compression, much more aggressive cam, etc. Not very practical for a touring motor that should get to 100,000 miles. An Evo with an ev27 cam is not a high performance motor. It just needs to be dialed in and ridden, not constantly monitored and re-tuned. An occasional check and re-tune may help, but not critical to long life and good riding manners. 100 horsepower (1.25 hp per cube) in an Evo is very aggressive, almost a 75% increase in power. Not realistic for a long lasting well mannered touring motor.
Could mine use an afr guage to dial it in better? Sure, I'm not against it. Somehow without it though, it has reached well over 100,000 miles. It was Dyno tuned when new, and  about 30,000 miles later. This motor is not ridden gently.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:50:14 AM by Hossamania »
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Offline Hossamania

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #124 on: February 16, 2018, 05:52:59 AM »
Besides, I barely look at my oil guage, the afr guage would just be more ignored noise....
No shirt, no shoes, but I still get service.
Why? Girl, look at this body!