Author Topic: Jets EV27  (Read 2229 times)

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Online Prostock

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Jets EV27
« on: February 08, 2018, 04:03:17 PM »
Jet size recommendations for a stock 1995 fatboy with an Andrews EV27 cam.  Stock carb, true dual pipes.   Ridden from 1500 to 4000 elevation in Arizona. THX

Scot

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 05:01:19 PM »
46 pilot (drag specialties) stock needle and main. 1 shim #6 under needle, adjust the idle screw for smoothest idle from a lean drop off

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2018, 02:47:57 PM »
IMHO
You and everyone is guessing until you install an AFR gauge.
I have said it a 100 times and will a 10000 more, it is the best tool I have on my bike .
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Deye76

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 04:38:09 PM »
IMHO thumper, you can post, but HD Street Performance actually does work, for many here, myself included. He gave a damn good starting point, and maybe a final point. Not everyone needs/wants a AFR gauge for a mild street bike.
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2018, 04:43:00 PM »
To each their own-
I will tell you this, I thought I could read plugs -you know pull in the clutch at whatever RPM I am checking, hit the kill switch, and pull the plugs.
My best guess was sometimes right according to the AFR meter, my best guess was usually a million miles off.
So, my opinion is without AFR,  it is a hipshot guess.
And why try?
The tool is available at a very reasonable cost.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 05:08:48 PM »
To each their own-
I will tell you this, I thought I could read plugs -you know pull in the clutch at whatever RPM I am checking, hit the kill switch, and pull the plugs.
My best guess was sometimes right according to the AFR meter, my best guess was usually a million miles off.
So, my opinion is without AFR,  it is a hipshot guess.
And why try?
The tool is available at a very reasonable cost.

Another way to look at it is a gauge is a good tool that allows anyone regardless of skill level to read AFR.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Online JW113

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 06:21:55 PM »
My goodness, how the hell did we ever manage to tune engines before the advent of the AFR gauge?
 :hyst:

I wonder if Burt Munro used one to set that land speed record?
 :scratch:

And then, there is the cookbook method. How many Evo Fatboys were made? How many with basically stock motor with EV-27 cam? Gonna guess a few thousand, maybe more. And what was used to jet them? (ask the guys that did it, they know)

The thing I love about klunky old carburetors over fuel infection is that it's not rocket science. Get it close, and day to day the bike runs just fine if not great.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline hdbikedoc

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 06:43:16 PM »
 :up:  :agree:  afr meter wow front sitting at 14.6  rear at 13.5  now what with a single carb this  is what you get
no computer adjustment front and rear   not saying they are not a good tool but ton's of people for years and years did fine without them
Keep your feet on the pegs and your right hand cranked

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 08:34:42 PM »
You will not ever see the whole dynamic picture without one.
Its one thing to get a static plug check and be in the ballpark of whatever RPM you just checked.
But with AFR one can see the whole pic all through the RPM range.
Not to mention the time spent doing plug checks!
Now ask yourself,- what does a dyno person use?
A guess?
For the money, he better dam well have all the equipment!
Next- just cause you had no way to do it with accuracy B4  without a meter,
 should that mean continue on that road?
We used to use a contraption to see in the cylinders whilst running,
 I am grateful for the wideband.
Carry on, be cavemen.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline kd

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 08:49:35 PM »
Today's gas makes it hard to read plugs.  :nix: Everything looks lean until it's too rich.  :idunno:
KD

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 08:58:29 PM »
Yep, and that's is the other point.
Glad you mentioned it.
I am not going to waste my time  trying  to convince people
that other tools have been invented since the crescent wrench.
The minute one adds an AFR gauge to the cockpit,  they get a big smile on their face!
Plus it is an excellent on board diagnostic tool .
They can actually see what is going on at 30MPH or a 100 MPH.!!
Can they Do that the caveman way?
Keep guessing folks, that's why the endless questions about which jet to use.
Carry on.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline turboprop

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 02:44:23 AM »
In regards to the AFR gauge. I have a couple of them that I use. Like most, I too thought I could tune a carb. The first time I rode my bike with my new AFR gauge installed told me otherwise. Even the simple idle mixture screw was off. The difference between 11.5 and 13.5 is less than ¼ turn on the screw. Many of my friends with carb'd bikes have taken my $100 challenge, i.e. I drill and weld in a bung for the sensor, hook up the gauge and see what is going on. If everything is as close as it can get, I give them $100, if not, they give me $100. Even bikes that have been tuned n the dyno (WOT pulls) are almost always off when ridden on the street. Its an invaluable tool IME. My red/white FXR is on the RB Racing website, top of the AFR meter page.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2018, 03:07:41 AM »
May I add-
As soon as one subscribes to performance mods as in cams, higher CR ,
 different cut chambers, ETC, the AFR unit is one boatload of help!
 The AFR unit will get it done in a hurry!
Without it, one is messing with the tune forever.
You cant see the lean spots, whereas I can.
You can see the fat spots NOW.
With performance mods most cannot run, maybe none run at stoichiometric.(14.5)
AFAIK most dyno rooms will leave a performance bike on the anemic side,
 Not a good place to hang out ..well. you will hang holes in pistons.
I have in my opinion a performance engine.
I can cruise dwn the road and always be aware if has decided to suck air and save myself a lot of grief.
The AFR is live, not some pull on a dyno, but real in the real world it lives in.
I dont have to trust someone else work which is good, as i have NOT trusted any one else to do the work on my bike either!
I know where it is running fat,  and I  need it there..no guessing required.
So you experts that poo poo this tool have denied yourself a large treat!
 You can blither on all you want about your tuning by plugs, however, I will bet you are so wrong.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Deye76

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 04:55:26 AM »
I have nothing against a AFR gauge, but with a CV carb and a EV27 cam it's not a deal breaker if you don't have one. There's only so much you can do to a stock CV carb, or need to. 150hp motor, different story> Waaay different carb.
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2018, 07:05:47 AM »
There are at least 5 different things that can be changed in a CV.
That is at a minimum.
I will take a CV over a Muk anytime.
The next point- these bikes are getting old- who knows what the last guy did?
The carbs are getting old, how does one know if they are even working somewhere near right?
The AFR meter will tell you right now!
That CV is my preference as I do long runs over big mountain passes and low
places.
They are absolutely simple and very adjustable.
Carry on .
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Deye76

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 07:49:07 AM »
Not arguing that a CV is good or not. The EV27, 80 cu. in. Evo, CV, dual exhaust w/tapered muffs combination has been around for 25+ years, the receipe, developed 10's of thousands of times isn't a secret.   
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 07:01:02 AM »
It is fun watching guys that upgraded from the “seat of the pants/plug reading” method of tuning to the “seat of the pants/AFR gauge” method of tuning try to explain how much more can be done with a simple gauge that reads real time info. They just cannot understand how anyone would not see and understand the clear advantages. Then, they themselves turn around and have the opposite side of the debate with a guy that tries to teach them the infinite advantages of quality dyno tuning.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2018, 07:05:41 AM »
where is, and who are you presenting this argument with or to?
Most people have a very big misunderstanding what a dyno is or does.
Then again there are a lot of dyno operators that might be better off doing something else.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline pan620

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 07:36:08 AM »
Nice discussion, So what ARF guage do you use thumper 823, and where do you think the best place is to install it? Thanks

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 07:51:29 AM »
I use the AEM , off amazon.
Its diabolically fast !  No slow-motion reading.
Change something and the AFR will change instantly.
The tricky part is getting the bung in the best place and a little out of sight.
Mine is in the front tube, at the turn about 9 inches dwn, on the inside near the frame.
 Everyone in the universe always has said the front cylinder will always be slightly leaner than the rear hence I used the front.
I guess if one wanted to get really tricky you could mount two,
 or perhaps one that you can flip a switch and read the rear.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 12:04:20 PM »
I use the AEM , off amazon.
Its diabolically fast !  No slow-motion reading.
Change something and the AFR will change instantly.
The tricky part is getting the bung in the best place and a little out of sight.
Mine is in the front tube, at the turn about 9 inches dwn, on the inside near the frame.
 Everyone in the universe always has said the front cylinder will always be slightly leaner than the rear hence I used the front.
I guess if one wanted to get really tricky you could mount two,
 or perhaps one that you can flip a switch and read the rear.

So you have never sampled the rear cylinder, you sample only the front?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline thumper 823

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 12:07:25 PM »
Nope.
If the rear runs richer and the front runs leaner ...
There is not a dam thing i can do except make sure the front is not the lean one.
If one wishes to put in an extra bung, they  could swap the sensor around from time to time.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Amateur engineering with bad math.

Offline Burnout

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 12:18:53 PM »
Or get a dual channel wide band like the one Daytona Twin Tech sells.

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/WEGO3.html

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Offline 1FSTRK

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 12:33:26 PM »
Nope.
If the rear runs richer and the front runs leaner ...
There is not a dam thing i can do except make sure the front is not the lean one.
If one wishes to put in an extra bung, they  could swap the sensor around from time to time.

That's a big if
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline turboprop

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Re: Jets EV27
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 01:10:21 PM »
Nope.
If the rear runs richer and the front runs leaner ...
There is not a dam thing i can do except make sure the front is not the lean one.
If one wishes to put in an extra bung, they  could swap the sensor around from time to time.

That's a big if

No its not.  Every tuner knows the rear cylinder needs less fuel as it is plain as day in the fuel tables. Bikes with carbs are no different in that regards.
'Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig'.