Author Topic: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...  (Read 791 times)

Barc, WML57 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ScottFree

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 708
Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« on: September 15, 2018, 06:42:39 PM »
Well, this was fun...

So here I was, passing through Canton, Iowa (don't bother looking for it; it's a bar next to a bridge on county road E17, aka the middle of nowhere), and I start hearing this whistling noise. OK, we just switched from asphalt to concrete, maybe it's the tires interacting with grooves in the road...

Backed off the throttle and I'm treated to the sound of a jet airliner on final approach. Think of the sound that's repeated over and over on the Beatles' "Back in the USSR" and you'll be pretty close. At first it sounds like it's coming from the front end--especially since it gets much louder when I'm slowing down and the front suspension's under a bit of compression.

After further experiments (mostly demonstrating it doesn't change when I shift gears, so it's NOT an engine or trans noise), I conclude the noise is coming from the back half of the bike. Finding a spot where I can pull over, I have a look. Nothing jammed up under the fenders, no errant zip ties...

Eventually, I find a little piece of metal lodged in between the primary case and transmission, and just lightly grazing the belt. It looks vaguely like an old-style muffler clamp, but my '04 has the newer Torca-style clamps and they're all still in place and tight. Further, while it grazes the belt, it's not jammed in place. It seems to be floating--roll the bike backwards and it disappears under the starter drive; roll the bike forward and it pokes out again. The noise is coming from this thing just touching the ridges on the back side of the belt. Damn... high-tech version of cards in the spokes!

After getting a nice burn from the exhaust trying to fish the thing out with a screwdriver from my took roll, I stopped at an auto parts store and borrowed a long screwdriver and a magnet. Spent about a half hour... no luck. It moves forward and back within its range, but it's not going to come out, either forward or back.

I've ridden about 75 miles this way so far. About all it's done to the belt is lightly polished the ridges on the back side. It appears that once I get up to road speed (over 50 mph), the belt moves enough air to actually lift the thing out of contact. I'm 220 miles from home at the moment, but unless something changes I figure I should be able to make it home tomorrow (obviously plan to pull the left saddlebag and have a look at the belt every 40 miles or so)... as long as it doesn't move.

I have no idea how the damned thing got in there, but I suspect I'm not going to get it out without pulling the inner primary... at which point I wonder, with 55,000 miles on the bike, as long as I'm in that far, should I replace the belt? Probably... but that's a decision for another day.

Oh, sorry about no pictures... I'm on the road and don't have any way to upload them to a server for display. Pix when I get home, and no doubt more pix when I get this thing out!

Offline Fugawee

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 296
  • Country: us
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 07:17:13 PM »
Geez...Sometimes it seems like it Just Never Ends.  For what its worth...I would replace the Belt.  Good Luck.

Offline rigidthumper

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4356
  • Country: us
  • Buying a scalpel, don't make you a surgeon.
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2018, 08:44:01 PM »
Any chance you've broken the little tab (Item 19, above starter) on the bracket that holds the rear pipe  just above the transmission?



http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=528&b=46&c=0&d=2005%20FLHRCI%20ROAD%20KING%AE%20CLASSIC%20(INJECTION)%20(FR)%20EXHAUST%20SYSTEM

Online Breeze

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2383
  • Country: us
  • middle Georgia '68 Shovel,'92 Dyna, '07 E.Glide
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 04:52:54 AM »
subscribed, just to find out what it is.  :scratch:
I'm starting to believe my body is gonna outlast my mind.

Offline CndUltra88

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2914
  • Country: ca
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 05:00:06 AM »
I too am curious as to what that little bit is causin the noise and concern.
Keep your phone charged or sue sparingly and let us know your home and not on the side of the road someplace.
Best Regards,
Rob
Infantryman Terry Street
End of Tour April,4,2008 Panjwayi district Afghanistan

Offline ScottFree

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 708
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 05:42:33 AM »
Thanks for the concern; I'll let y'all know when I'm safely home.

Might be a while till I find out what it is. I'm looking at a hip replacement in the next couple months and planned to take the bike in for upgraded cam chain tensioners (it's an '04, with the spring loaded ones) and a little other stuff this winter, while I'm in physical therapy. Now it looks like I'll be having the primary pulled to get this little intruder out, and probably replace the belt--with 55K on the bike, I can rationalize that the upgraded tensioners and new belt mean I should be able to just ride it until it rolls over 100K.

One thing I'm pretty sure it's not is the exhaust pipe bracket on top of the trans (or a piece of it). That's still there. I think it's most likely just some piece of road debris that was kicked up by the front tire and somehow bounced into an impossible location... and now can't get out because there's no way to reverse those bounces.

Online Leed

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
  • Country: us
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 08:32:48 AM »
I hope you make it home OK.  Maybe once you're home and can get the bike up in the air you'll be able to get that bugger out.

Offline Norton Commando

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 516
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 11:37:57 AM »
Hoping it's not serious.  The last time my bike sounded like that the sprocket nut had come loose.

Jason
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

Offline ScottFree

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 708
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 12:37:24 PM »
Well, I'm home. Did the 200 miles in just over four hours. Inspected the belt at a couple stops along the way. It's showing slight wear on the outside ribs, and I suspect over the next thousand or so miles it might actually wear them away. Not that I intend to test this.

Too tired and sore (remember that bad hip) to investigate further. Will have a closer look, take some photos and make another attempt to maneuver the object out tomorrow or Tuesday, when everything's nice and cool.

Offline klammer76

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1528
  • Country: us
  • It's all about the Torque!
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 06:37:51 PM »
Glad you made it back. Interested to see what it is.

Offline kd

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5730
  • Country: ca
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 06:50:42 PM »
Klammer, put a jack under the frame and let the suspension hang. You may have to remove the lower shock bolts to get the clearance you need to slip it back out or squeeze it back the way it go in.  Good Luck.
KD

Offline ScottFree

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 708
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 05:35:07 AM »
Hoping it's not serious.  The last time my bike sounded like that the sprocket nut had come loose.

Jason

Oh, yeah, had that happen on my first '90 bagger (back in the days when they "secured" the sprocket nut with one little allen screw). I was lucky--mentioned the noise to somebody who knew what it was, he reached under the bike and showed me how the sprocket could move. I was lucky--it hadn't yet gotten itself cockeyed and stripped the splines off the main drive gear (though it had put some nice grooves in the back of the primary case). I got the big socket, cinched that sucker down, secured it with the lock plate (drilled/tapped four holes in the sprocket to make sure that bugger didn't come loose), and rode the bike another 80K miles before I replaced the main drive gear as part of a general trans rebuild at 112K.

Wasn't so lucky with the H-D accessory belt drive we put on the wife's '86 Sportster. I didn't pay much attention when she complained it was making a "funny noise," until it stopped in Guttenberg, Iowa (why do these things always seem to happen in Iowa, anyway?). Stripped the splines out of the sprocket and messed up the splines on the transmission mainshaft. We were able to save the trans, at least, but it was a major PITA.

I did check very carefully for any signs my sprocket was coming loose. Happily, it's not. The little piece of metal does sound like it's sometimes grazing the flange on the sprocket, though. Two distinct noises--scraping metal at very low speeds, and this jet-engine whine (from grazing the ridges on the belt). Since the flange is on the left and the belt is showing slight wear lines on the right, I figure this piece has got to have a very odd shape... gonna be real interesting to get it out.

Offline Panzer

  • Shed Master
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11336
  • Country: us
  • Live one day at a time.
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 05:10:32 PM »

                    :pop:
You don't have to shovel sunshine ..... let's ride.

Offline biggzed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1883
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 10:44:10 AM »
I got something jammed up there once. Turned out to be my GD cig lighter. It fell out of my fairing, hit my leg and somehow got sucked up inside there. I couldn't believe it once I figured out what it was.


Zach

Offline ScottFree

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 708
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 05:25:42 AM »
Thought I posted an update yesterday, but it's not here... so let's try again.

I spent some time trying to get the object out yesterday (when the bike was cool). I could move it around, but haven't yet figured out how to get it out short of pulling the primary. I am more or less convinced it came in from the back and was carried into position by the belt.

Here's a picture of the object itself. Almost looks like it's supposed to be there!



When I roll the bike backwards, it disappears below the starter drive. I can, using a magnet, rotate the thing almost 90 degrees, but then it won't go any further. My biggest concern in trying to wiggle it out is that I'll get it stuck worse, so that I can't ride the bike to the shop and have the primary pulled as part of my planned winter maintenance stuff (normally I'd pull the primary myself, but I'm facing hip surgery).

As for the belt:



This picture makes it look worse than it is, and it doesn't look bad. It's just polished the ribs on the belt. I think it'd take a couple thousand miles to actually wear through the rubber and expose the belt cord. Still, since I'll be paying to pull the primary, it's not that much further to replace the belt as well.

I still have no idea what this thing is or where it came from.

Offline chaos901

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
  • Country: 00
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 05:54:29 AM »
I would have to get it out now, would drive me crazy..........course I'm not facing hip surgery. 

Offline Panzer

  • Shed Master
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11336
  • Country: us
  • Live one day at a time.
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2018, 06:02:06 PM »
Anyone with the closest answer (when ScottFree has it removed) will get a "get out of Shed" free pass.
I'm guessing road debris.

Psst.....comes in handy when you have to dance with Bertha.
You don't have to shovel sunshine ..... let's ride.

Offline FTBY55

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 130
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2018, 08:13:19 PM »
That looks like a piece of keystock from a shaft keyway.

Offline Maddo Snr

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: au
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2018, 10:15:44 PM »
That looks like a piece of keystock from a shaft keyway.

Don't reckon it's tool-steel. It looks like it has worn into shape to fit right where it has settled. I'm with Chaos, even with no hips I'd be dragging my butt around the workshop on a creeper getting it out!

Good luck with the hip Doctor Scotty, maybe his mate the Gynaecologist can get that thing out for you... :idea:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:19:49 PM by Maddo Snr »

Offline -deuced-

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
  • Country: au
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #19 on: Today at 02:26:18 AM »
Looks like your twin cam is soon to become a twin belt. I agree with others about the urgency of removal. Sorry to hear of your ill health but if your unable to disassenmble then perhaps consider putting it in the shop.
You need a new shifter shaft seal anyway or was that the planned maintenance?
« Last Edit: Today at 03:10:33 AM by -deuced- »

Online Wiseguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Country: us
Re: Sounds Like A Jet On Final Approach...
« Reply #20 on: Today at 03:29:46 AM »
Thought I posted an update yesterday, but it's not here... so let's try again.

I spent some time trying to get the object out yesterday (when the bike was cool). I could move it around, but haven't yet figured out how to get it out short of pulling the primary. I am more or less convinced it came in from the back and was carried into position by the belt.

Here's a picture of the object itself. Almost looks like it's supposed to be there!




Why does it look like your countershaft bearing is sticking out of its hole in the case? My S&S 5-in-4 case looks similar because I bought the wrong bearing, and being 1/4" too wide, hangs out a bit. It's been there almost 18 years, so I'm not planning on changing it for the proper shorter one.

Wiseguy

Edited to add that I went out to look at my tranny, and the bearing is partially behind the sprocket teeth, so I was mistaken. That protrusion I was looking at in your pic is something else.


When I roll the bike backwards, it disappears below the starter drive. I can, using a magnet, rotate the thing almost 90 degrees, but then it won't go any further. My biggest concern in trying to wiggle it out is that I'll get it stuck worse, so that I can't ride the bike to the shop and have the primary pulled as part of my planned winter maintenance stuff (normally I'd pull the primary myself, but I'm facing hip surgery).

As for the belt:



This picture makes it look worse than it is, and it doesn't look bad. It's just polished the ribs on the belt. I think it'd take a couple thousand miles to actually wear through the rubber and expose the belt cord. Still, since I'll be paying to pull the primary, it's not that much further to replace the belt as well.

I still have no idea what this thing is or where it came from.
Once you know the facts, the answer will stand proud.