Author Topic: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG  (Read 579 times)

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Offline klammer76

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Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« on: October 07, 2018, 12:32:07 PM »
I am considering getting a 2016 Road Glide or possibly a Street Glide. I have a 2002 stripped down, carbed FLHTC (that I will also keep).

Yesterday, GF & I test rode a 4,000 mile 2016 Road Glide Special. Bike has not been ridden much this season by the owner. When we went to take off (cold) the bike shuddered and made noise from the primary or drive line (hard to describe but kind of a knock). It actually felt like I was trying to start out in second or third gear up hill. I knew I was in first but quickly checked and verified first gear. Gave it some throttle and got to top of his driveway. Took off again and same thing. Bike ran fine down the road, shifted fine and didn't notice any drive line or primary noise. Didn't experience this issue again. Upon return I asked the owner what was up with that and had he ever experience it. He replied he had and had asked the dealer about it while getting a service done and dealer said it was fine and they do that (standard answer for everything). So, my question to you is what could this have been? I have read here on HTT in the past about compensator issues, auto chain tensioner issues, bearing issues in the cush drive etc. I have test rode demo bikes at rallys in the past and have never had this happen but they were well warmed up. Is this normal? I passed on this particular bike for a few reasons.

Coming off a early model TC I'm sure I will have some other questions about the later FBW induction etc.

Thanks,
klammer

Offline kd

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 12:38:17 PM »
Almost without doubt the comp sprocket.  And by the way, they don't all do that.  In fact, the MOCO came out with shims to correct that issue in the 14+ big twin models. A search on this site for 14+ compensator will fill you in.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:47:22 PM by kd »
KD

Offline klammer76

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 01:00:28 PM »
Almost without doubt the comp sprocket.  And by the way, they don't all do that.  In fact, the MOCO came out with shims to correct that issue in the 14+ big twin models. A search on this site for 14+ compensator will fill you in.
Thanks KD, knew they didn't do that but had no idea what it was. My 2002 certainly doesn't (I realize different compensator). I'll do a searc for the 14+ comp.

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 01:03:48 PM »
The feeling of taking off in 2nd or 3rd gear doesn't sound like compensator in my opinion. The noise yes it could be. Clutch wasn't slipping was it? Also keep in mind that bike is geared a lot taller than your 2002 bike.
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Offline kd

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 01:08:21 PM »
Brian, I thought he was referring to the knock and rattle you would get taking off in too high of a gear. You know, the bucking sound just before it kicks and stalls.  :embarrassed:

Klammer, the most informative thread I recall is now on the Sticky page. I have posted it for your convenience.  :teeth: 

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=13484.msg136065#msg136065
KD

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 01:14:13 PM »
The 1st gear ratios of a five speed vs. a six speed, the six speed is actually a touch lower gear:


5 speed = 3.24
6 speed = 3.34

but the overall gearing the six is taller
5 speed OA = 10.206
6 speed OA = 9.594

Not a huge difference, but you may feel it if your earlier bike runs good, and has a more positive clutch feel.


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Offline klammer76

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 03:27:01 PM »
The best way to describe it was the feeling and sound like starting off in second gear. Owners driveway starts up hill right away and we were two up. When I asked the owner about the sound he knew right away what I was talking about as it has done it with him also. He was also standing beside the bike when we left and heard it. Happened as soon as I let the clutch out. Granted, the 2016 gearing is way higher and different than my 2002 103" low end mild build with cable clutch and 3.37 gearing but I think there was something going on with it. I have never felt/heard this on any other late model I have tried but have also never started out on an incline with those bikes either. It doesn't seem like the compensator would be shot at 4,000 miles?

Maybe it was the gearing as it did feel like I wasn't in 1st that is why I checked to make sure. Bike was a stock 2016 103". Took way more throttle to get up the hill than I am used to.

Thanks for the links, I appreciate it. Yup, there is a lot out there on the compensator issues. Does GMR still sell their compensavor?

Offline klammer76

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 03:30:46 PM »
The 1st gear ratios of a five speed vs. a six speed, the six speed is actually a touch lower gear:


5 speed = 3.24
6 speed = 3.34

but the overall gearing the six is taller
5 speed OA = 10.206
6 speed OA = 9.594

Not a huge difference, but you may feel it if your earlier bike runs good, and has a more positive clutch feel.
Brian,
Looking at your chart I see the late model HD 6 speed (I have a SE/Jims 6 speed in my 2002) is lower. I do have the primary set up at 3.37. I can say that my 02 woiuld have walked up that incline like a John Deere tractor  :wink:

Online PoorUB

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 03:55:53 PM »

Maybe it was the gearing as it did feel like I wasn't in 1st that is why I checked to make sure. Bike was a stock 2016 103". Took way more throttle to get up the hill than I am used to.

Typical reaction moving from a 5 to a 6 speed. I noticed it myself but it takes a bit of retraining for the rider. A bit more throttle, a bit more slip on the clutch.

As to the clunk, more than likely the compensator, although they will clatter a  bit if the revs drop below idle RPM on take off. Possible weak spring in the compensator too, but often it is just changing the way you handle the clutch and throttle.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 04:07:43 PM »
The 1st gear ratios of a five speed vs. a six speed, the six speed is actually a touch lower gear:


5 speed = 3.24
6 speed = 3.34

but the overall gearing the six is taller
5 speed OA = 10.206
6 speed OA = 9.594

Not a huge difference, but you may feel it if your earlier bike runs good, and has a more positive clutch feel.
Brian,
Looking at your chart I see the late model HD 6 speed (I have a SE/Jims 6 speed in my 2002) is lower. I do have the primary set up at 3.37. I can say that my 02 woiuld have walked up that incline like a John Deere tractor  :wink:
This is what I show for a 3.37 with a Jim's six speed. Is your first gear a 2.94?   


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Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 04:29:59 PM »
I updated this to show the actual over all primary and secondary ratio at the top.

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Offline kd

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2018, 06:07:36 PM »
It doesn't seem like the compensator would be shot at 4,000 miles?



FWIW I had a new +14 comp installed during a warranty claim and repair. It rattled right out of the box.    The dealers (at least some of them) seem to think it's OK and normal.  Probably because they would have had to take it back apart on their dime. I had to buy a couple of shims and tighten it up myself.  Not worth the debate and they were very generous on the warranty claim.
KD

Offline klammer76

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 06:12:52 PM »
I updated this to show the actual over all primary and secondary ratio at the top.

(Attachment Link)
According to the SE FLHT 6-Speed Transmission instruction sheet that I have (J03322) ratios are as follows:

1st - 3.210
2nd- 2.209
3rd- 1.572
4th- 1.226
5th- 1.000
6th- 0.885

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 06:25:10 PM »
Ok, that changes things. So your first gear is a bunch lower than the 2016 bike. Actually 1st, 2nd and 3rd are going to feel a lot lower. But as you mentioned other late bikes didn't feel like this one did. I just wonder if the clutch was slipping a little.


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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 06:32:22 PM »
I updated the workbook with the SE ratios and Jim's ratios.

http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php?topic=105065.msg1243992#msg1243992


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Offline NHBAGGER

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 04:16:12 PM »
Klammer, I know exactly what you are talking about.  My 14 Tri Glide does it ever since we had to replace the Baker Comp (which galled) with an SE unit.  We aren't sure if it's the comp or if possibly the clutch plates glazed when the Baker Comp was hanging up.  It galled so bad that using a 12" breaker bar on the comp hex required two hands to turn it.  Not sure if the SE unit was shimmed or not when installed.  Our riding season is winding down so we have not torn it down yet.

Online harpwrench

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 05:20:34 PM »
If the exhaust has been modified without proper tuning it could cause that, also going from cable to hydraulic clutch will probably put the friction zone in a different spot.

Offline klammer76

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 02:06:12 AM »
If the exhaust has been modified without proper tuning it could cause that, also going from cable to hydraulic clutch will probably put the friction zone in a different spot.
Interesting, he did have a set of SE slip on's on it. Bike wasn't tuned, had decell popping. Was out yesterday, during a stop for hydration, guy took off on a 2015 RG, no noise, smooth.

You are correct on the friction zone being different.

Offline NHBAGGER

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 04:32:39 AM »
In my case, I know it's not the exhaust/tune.  Pretty sure it's either the comp or the plates glazed in the Bandit clutch.  Be great to be able to pinpoint it before opening up the primary and finding parts are required.
Forgot to mention, mine does it all the time, not just when cold.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 05:27:31 AM by NHBAGGER »

Offline kd

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 09:09:07 AM »
I just realized thOP posted about when cold. That makes the chain adjustment suspect. The extra slack when cold along with the chug at takeoff together could be the problem. The loose chain may be snapping and causing the comp to flex more.
KD

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Re: Primary/drive line noise when taking off cold on 2016 RG
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 10:16:42 PM »
In my case, I know it's not the exhaust/tune.  Pretty sure it's either the comp or the plates glazed in the Bandit clutch.  Be great to be able to pinpoint it before opening up the primary and finding parts are required.
Forgot to mention, mine does it all the time, not just when cold.

Only one real way to know, open it and check it. It works for now, if you need parts but still want to ride, close it up, ride, repair when parts come in.
If you decide what the problem is and order parts before confirming, you may be paying a restocking fee, or having nice new unneeded parts sitting on the shelf.
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