Author Topic: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8  (Read 14672 times)

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Offline Xyzzy

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Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« on: September 08, 2016, 06:10:56 PM »
Dunno if any of you find this interesting or helpful, but -- during my 1,000 mile service today (done by me on my '17 SGS) I noted the following:

Engine Oil:
  • I drained 3 quarts and 27 ounces of oil from the engine. This includes oil from the filter. I only warmed up the engine for 5 minutes prior.
  • Unlike my old '16 RGS, rocking the bike from side-to-side did not get any more oil out. Maybe the sump is shaped better now?
  • The engine oil dip stick has 10 marks. It was at mark #5 from the factory.
  • I added exactly 4 quarts. After a 100 mile shake-down run after the change, the oil was on mark #7. (Mark #10 is the full mark.) (On my RGS I added 3 quarts because any more than that would blow a lot of oil into my air filter. 3 quarts would put me at mark #9 out of 19 on the old dipstick.)
  • The oil pressure when starting the bike back up after the change did not light the oil pressure light at all. (My RGS would flicker red for 3-4 seconds.)
  • I used Mobil 1 20W50 oil and an OEM H-D filter.
  • I never spill oil (I use aluminum foil under the oil filter) but if you do spill oil now, there is a bunch of new wires and crap for the oil to get all over.
  • My Rivco oil filter wrench would not fit. The voltage regulator is on the front in the way. I used a "normal" oil filter cap wrench. The crankcase sensor is no longer in the way.
  • The oil filter boss assembly is now part of the case. The oil cooler lines are not in the oil filter area any longer.
  • The oil dip stick is further to the rear and a bit more difficult to unscrew without getting burned a bit. It no longer has a swivelized dangly dip stick. It is a normal all-in-one deal now.
  • The oil pressure display on the infotainment screen is a "CHECK OIL" or "OK" message. I read somewhere there is a P&A deal that will restore the old pressure functionality but I haven't been able to find it. I really miss having the actual pressure readout.

Primary:
  • I drained exactly 1 quart.
  • I added exactly 1 quart.
  • The level is easier to see now via the derby cover.
  • I have a lot of Mobil 1 10W40 left over from previous motorcycles so I used that.

Transmission:
  • I drained exactly 28 ounces.
  • I added exactly 28 ounces.
  • Afterwards, the level was just at the top of the hour glass marking on the dip stick.
  • The drain is now away from the lower frame cross piece so you can drain the transmission without getting oil everywhere.
  • I have a lot of Mobil 1 75/90 gear oil so I used that.

Miscellaneous:
  • All of the prior TC torque values are the same for the M8.
  • There was a bunch of pipe dope on all 3 drain plugs. I used a thread chaser top clean them up.
  • Behind the oil cooler is a gigantic huge space for the electric fan to go if you add it. It is pre-wired for the fan. I bet you could fit an air horn down there.
  • All of the o-rings were able to be reused. The manual now tells you to reuse them if they are in good shape. Somehow the chamfer that the o-ring seats in is sized better or smoother because it is very easy to tighten the drains without messing up the o-rings. You can seat the drain fully just with finger pressure on the drain nut.
  • I am hoping I can use whole quarts for the engine, primary and transmission to keep things simple. So far the engine and primary work that way. I don't know if 4 more ounces in the transmission will cause it to blow out the vent line.

If you have any questions let me know!

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 06:19:03 PM »
Transmission drain trick using primary funnel:

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Offline 00se

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 06:43:22 PM »
I think the M-8 holds 4 1/2 quarts of oil.

Offline FloridaJim5

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 04:59:08 AM »
I think the M-8 holds 4 1/2 quarts of oil.

Probably a half quart left in the lines, cooler, etc. 

Offline koko3052

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 08:09:15 AM »
Thanks for the info Xyzzy. :up:

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 12:04:30 PM »
Good post thx. :up:

Offline les

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 01:17:30 PM »
Xyzzy, the service manual says that the primary takes 30 oz. wet.  You drained exactly a quart.  Yeah, 2 oz. is nearly nothing.  Here, I'd guess that 30 oz. is the same as 32 oz.  Your comments?  In your opinion, safe to just dump in the entire quart? 

Yes, the service manual says 28 oz. for the transmission, exactly your observed number.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 04:00:45 PM »
Xyzzy, the service manual says that the primary takes 30 oz. wet.  You drained exactly a quart.  Yeah, 2 oz. is nearly nothing.  Here, I'd guess that 30 oz. is the same as 32 oz.  Your comments?  In your opinion, safe to just dump in the entire quart?

I don't think there is a problem. The right way to fill it is with a visual check anyways.

"* Amount is approximate. Fill to bottom of pressure plate OD with vehicle upright."

On my old bike I experimented with fills from 32 to 48 ounces. (It called for 38 ounces.) The only difference I felt was easier shifting with just 32 ounces.

Here is a thread I posted with some of my questions/experiments: http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php/topic,89687

TL;DR = A quart is fine, IMO.

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Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 04:04:38 PM »
More experiments: http://harleytechtalk.com/index.php/topic,91271

Edit: Just to add a thought - I never replace the derby cover seal. I never have had a leak or problem with the seal. That said, I only have ~40K miles experience with HD bikes.

PS - I bought a big bag of o-rings to use rather than pay the dealer $1 for each one. Here is a link to some super high-quality ones: http://www.mcmaster.com/#1201T24
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:19:46 PM by Xyzzy »

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2016, 07:41:11 PM »
They didn't route the spark plug wire differently on the M8, so check your front left plug wire for chafing where it touches the fuel tank. Mine had a divot wore in it so I wrapped some electrical tape around that area.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 11:55:13 AM »
I did the 5,000 mile service today.

The good:
  • I checked the air filter. and it looked new. My '16 RG would ruin the filter with engine oil so I replaced the filter every 10,000 miles. It looks like I will be able to run this filter a lot longer.
  • The bolt to take off the air filter cover is out in the open. You don't have to pry off the badge that has that weird velcro stuff.
  • The engine oil looked much better than what I am used to seeing. My old RG would blacken the oil. I have attached a picture of the new oil below.
  • When I went to drop the oil, the level was at 3 marks out of 10. It started at 7 marks out of 10, so it used 4 marks worth of oil. I think that is reasonable. When I added exactly 4 quarts today it put the level at 5 marks out of 10.

The bad:
  • The gasket for the air filter cover is a bit fiddly to mess with.

The ugly:
  • I spilled oil from the oil filter area. I am kinda known for having a surgically clean work area so this really bummed me out. I was able to clean up the mess, but it took a while because the spilled oil got all over some of the connectors near the bottom. You know a dealer is just going to dump a pile of oil in that area so I have no idea how dirty or messed up those connectors are going to get. There is a plastic cover at the bottom that you can pop off to get to the connectors.

I'm averaging a smidge over 50 MPG at 5,000 miles. I have been riding at the speed limit (70 MPH) a lot the last few days on a long trip and the engine just loves to run at that speed.

Online hd06

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 02:44:02 AM »
 That's great, I picked up my RGS 3 days ago average 51.6 mpg on 261 miles. This bike is great love the toque.

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 06:12:12 PM »
1300mi. KC to Phoenix had a pretty strong headwind across NM. Running 75 to 83mph. Averaged 35 mpg.

Offline brokenwing

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 06:15:40 PM »
Forgot to post what I was riding. 2017 Streetglide. Had 700mi on it when I left KC.

Offline kristian

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 10:51:16 PM »
my vote is for liquimoly in all the holes, its greatest lubricant on the planet!!  Just ask bubbiebobclassicmountainmanbroke
Kris

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2016, 01:47:25 PM »
I just got back from a 2,000 mile road trip. I did the 10,000 mile maintenance today. I still spilled oil but it was less that last time because I found a few places I can stuff some shop rags to soak up the mess. The bike still runs perfectly and I have had only one tank under 50 MPG. This last trip I was at 70-75 MPH most of the time and it still came in over 50 MPG. The oil on the dip stick was on the 4th set of holes so very little oil was consumed.

Online hd06

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2016, 11:58:31 PM »
Looking good   :up: 

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 03:26:30 PM »
I checked the air filter. and it looked new. My '16 RG would ruin the filter with engine oil so I replaced the filter every 10,000 miles. It looks like I will be able to run this filter a lot longer.

I installed a SE heavy breather yesterday. I have just under 15,000 miles on the bike. I haven't looked at the air filter since the 10,000 mile service so I was surprised to see that the lower part was drenched in oil. I don't know if this is a one-off occurrence or not, but I would check the filter every few thousand miles now, knowing this. In my opinion, at 15,000 miles, this filter is toast, and probably has been for a while.

The heavy breather still has the oil vented into the throttle body but the filter is not near that part so I expect to not see air filter contamination in the future. If you run the stock filter, the upgrade filter, the upgrade filter with the better backplate or the ventilator filter, the oil will still foul the filter if too much is vented.

FWIW, the engine looks very cool with the heavy breather installed. The stock air filter cover obscures most of the engine from sight whereas the heavy breather reveals almost all of it.

Offline mattVA

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 12:05:37 PM »
For the oil filter consider getting a "Form A Funnel" https://www.amazon.com/FORM-FUNNEL-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B017MTFIYE and punch a hole in the end of the filter to let it drain overnight. After trying everything on my Twin Cam to keep from having to clean up a mess, this is the only thing that has worked.
2009 FXDF

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2017, 12:22:11 PM »
I just bought the new overpriced official orange drain thingy.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-catcher-drain-oil-funnel-pa-12-62700199--1

I test fit it on the bike and it locks into position. Maybe it will work.

The TC version did not work well. I hope they "engineered" this one better.

I'll post a review of it in a few days when I do my 15,000 mile service.

I always nail a hole in the end of the filter to get most of the oil out prior to removing it. It makes it a lot less messy!

Offline FSG

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2017, 01:05:53 PM »
Quote
15,000 mile service.

already, your not mucking around then      :chop:

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 12:53:28 PM »
already, your not mucking around then      :chop:

I squeezed in an 18 hour IB1K (unofficial) yesterday. The weather was incredible!

:koolaid:

I just bought the new overpriced official orange drain thingy.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-catcher-drain-oil-funnel-pa-12-62700199--1

I test fit it on the bike and it locks into position. Maybe it will work.

The TC version did not work well. I hope they "engineered" this one better.

I'll post a review of it in a few days when I do my 15,000 mile service.

I always nail a hole in the end of the filter to get most of the oil out prior to removing it. It makes it a lot less messy!

The "new overpriced official orange drain thingy" is worthless. I get less mess using my aluminum foil "form-a-trough" method.

Today's 15K service went well with nothing weird to report. I ran the bike to 15,750 miles, so a bit past the scheduled service, but I am not worried about it. The drain magnet was perfectly free of metallic swarf/paste. The oil prior to changing was on the "two dot" marker on the dip stick.

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »
I did my 20,000 mile service today.

Primary:
  • The primary oil (M1 10W40) looked pretty dirty with 10,000 miles on it, but the clutch works great so I will continue to do 10,000 mile intervals.
  • Since I have an AIM variable pressure clutch thingy now, the fancy orange plastic H-D funnel no longer works right.

Transmission:
  • The transmission oil (M1 75W90) was darker than I expected, but it was clear and the drain plug had only a super small bit of metallic swarf on it. Almost too small to see.
  • The gasket on the dipstick is torn a little so I will get a new one.
  • I haven't checked the level even one time until today. I figure if there isn't any oil on the garage floor then I am okay.

Engine:
  • The engine oil (M1 20W50) looked like all the previous times so I didn't take a picture of it. I don't want my wife to get upset with me using her dishes for oil pictures, either.
  • The engine only used maybe 2 dots worth of oil. I have been riding a lot at 70MPH in 5th gear so the engine is spinning happily.
  • The plug o-ring looked fine but I replaced it anyways. I think I will put new o-rings on all of the plugs every 20,000 miles.

Air filter:
  • I have switched to the SE Heavy Breather since my last service. I pulled off the elbow to look in the throttle body and everything looked great. There was a very small amount of (very clean) oil there. Since the Heavy Breather filter element is "upstream" there is no way for the oil to contaminate it. I probably will inspect the throttle body area every 20,000 miles now.

Overall, the bike runs fantastic and, I think, it runs better now than when I first got it.

Offline IA17RGU

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 07:22:38 PM »
yea..my oil filter dropped a big mess...tried to get the tin foil in there...no dice...jsut got all smushed up

Offline Xyzzy

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Re: Engine, transmission and primary oil change notes for M8
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 07:51:09 PM »
I'm going to try to put a diaper under the filter next time.