Author Topic: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary  (Read 71938 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Bigtwin

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: fr
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #700 on: November 28, 2017, 02:28:47 AM »

I have trouble with the translation. You mean to push the oil by disengaging, by operating the lever of the left hand?

Offline FSG

  • BrisVegas in Oz
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16994
  • Country: au
  • BrisVegas
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #701 on: November 28, 2017, 02:39:00 AM »
Quote
You mean to push the oil by disengaging, by operating the lever of the left hand?

No

If you lightly rest your hand/fingers on the clutch lever you can feel the A&S Clutch in action, that is the feedback from the clutch via the slave cylinder.

Offline Karl H.

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
  • Country: de
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #702 on: November 28, 2017, 03:49:48 AM »

A&S Clutch was introduced on the 2013 CVO models and 2014 Tri Glide. With the M8 it became a standard feature 2017 up.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 03:59:24 AM by Karl H. »
Dyna Wide Glide '03, Softail Deluxe '13, Street Glide '14, Sportster 883R '15

Offline rbabos

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 13298
  • Country: ca
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #703 on: November 28, 2017, 04:32:38 AM »
Quote
You mean to push the oil by disengaging, by operating the lever of the left hand?

No

If you lightly rest your hand/fingers on the clutch lever you can feel the A&S Clutch in action, that is the feedback from the clutch via the slave cylinder.
Gave it some thought  :scratch: and doubt it would pump. Goes in and out on an even cycle so no directional effect. That and the feel in the lever is multiplied from the pressure reversal. Big piston feeding back to a small one. Slave movement would only be a few thou at most.
Back to the same old. There must be accumulation around the pushrod for anything to happen.
Ron

Offline HV

  • New Brunswick CANADA ( East Coast )
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7269
  • Country: ca
  • 2013 FLTRX * Member Dec/2000*
    • HTT Admin
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #704 on: November 28, 2017, 01:20:35 PM »
Every time you shift you can feel a pulse in the lever almost like a HYD feed back of some kind
HV HTT Admin ..Ride Safe ...But Ride informed with HTT !!
Skype HV.HTT

Offline blackhillsken

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Country: us
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #705 on: November 28, 2017, 01:25:25 PM »
Every time you shift you can feel a pulse in the lever almost like a HYD feed back of some kind

Used to get that lever pulsing on some 2007s and were fixed with the Baker bearing door kit.
Ken

Offline FSG

  • BrisVegas in Oz
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16994
  • Country: au
  • BrisVegas
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #706 on: November 28, 2017, 01:33:32 PM »
Quote
There must be accumulation around the pushrod for anything to happen.

the gear box screw compressor will keep the slave recess full, the slave pulse will do the rest

Offline rbabos

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 13298
  • Country: ca
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #707 on: November 28, 2017, 01:55:31 PM »
Quote
There must be accumulation around the pushrod for anything to happen.

the gear box screw compressor will keep the slave recess full, the slave pulse will do the rest
Head from the reason you stated would bring the fluid at the bottom of the PR hole and gravity when on the kickstand too will move some also. The whole situmatation sucks , I tell you.
Ron

Offline Advntr

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 68
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #708 on: December 01, 2017, 06:33:30 AM »
The local service manager at the HD store told me the moco still does not know what the case of the migration is and he opined that there may be a porosity issues with the castings...i will check with my other service parts manager that i know. :emoGroan:

Offline harleytuner

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3017
  • Country: us
    • Wide Open Cycles
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #709 on: December 01, 2017, 06:41:13 AM »
The local service manager at the HD store told me the moco still does not know what the case of the migration is and he opined that there may be a porosity issues with the castings...i will check with my other service parts manager that i know. :emoGroan:

lol, porous cases?  Between the trans and primary?  Let that sink in for a minute. :doh:
Enjoying the hell out of my "hotted" up twincam

Offline PoorUB

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14116
  • Country: us
  • Tropical Fargo, ND
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #710 on: December 01, 2017, 08:36:45 AM »
The local service manager at the HD store told me the moco still does not know what the case of the migration is and he opined that there may be a porosity issues with the castings...i will check with my other service parts manager that i know. :emoGroan:

lol, porous cases?  Between the trans and primary?  Let that sink in for a minute. :doh:

Sure, that I certainly the cause! :banghead:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Karl H.

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
  • Country: de
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #711 on: December 01, 2017, 08:38:39 AM »
Porosity between crank and primary case leading to vacuum in the primary as discussed by Max on HDF already (see #449)   :pop:

Karl
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:50:13 AM by Karl H. »
Dyna Wide Glide '03, Softail Deluxe '13, Street Glide '14, Sportster 883R '15

Offline 1FSTRK

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7904
  • Country: 00
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #712 on: December 01, 2017, 10:57:52 AM »
Porosity may put engine oil it the primary but would not be the cause or cure for trans fluid in the primary, it just doen't work that way.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline harleytuner

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3017
  • Country: us
    • Wide Open Cycles
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #713 on: December 01, 2017, 06:53:38 PM »
 If the engine case is porous enough too draw a vacuumthrough the primary and pull trans fluid into it you would think it would pull primary fluid into the crank case.  Besides it would have to pull more air than the vent supplies.
Enjoying the hell out of my "hotted" up twincam

Offline 1FSTRK

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7904
  • Country: 00
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #714 on: December 01, 2017, 08:43:06 PM »
Not to mention that it will pull air only unless you have something causing the trans oil to be up to the level of the center hole in the mainshaft. It just keeps coming back to the changes in the side cover and slave cylinder that cover the end of the shaft with liquid trans oil. This just is not an air and vapor problem.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline -deuced-

  • Site Supporter
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
  • Country: au
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #715 on: December 01, 2017, 09:59:36 PM »
deleted, wrong page
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 10:44:39 PM by -deuced- »

Offline FSG

  • BrisVegas in Oz
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16994
  • Country: au
  • BrisVegas
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #716 on: December 01, 2017, 11:29:25 PM »
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Offline To The Max

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 196
  • Country: au
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #717 on: December 02, 2017, 02:13:54 AM »
(Attachment Link)
Great diagram could sit and watch that pumping action all day. But more to the point , from what I see there a slinger is in order. has any one tried one yet?

Offline FSG

  • BrisVegas in Oz
  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16994
  • Country: au
  • BrisVegas
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #718 on: December 02, 2017, 03:00:51 AM »
there is no room for a slinger

Offline 1FSTRK

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7904
  • Country: 00
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #719 on: December 02, 2017, 04:41:31 AM »
 :idea:
There would be room for a slinger if you machine out the slinger shaped cone they added to the end cover instead of drilling holes in it.

Is it as simple as machining out what they added to the new covers and then go back to a slinger?

Maybe just one more case of you can't make it better if you don't know how it worked in the first place.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Offline rigidthumper

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4410
  • Country: us
  • Buying a scalpel, don't make you a surgeon.
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #720 on: December 02, 2017, 06:17:34 AM »
:idea:
There would be room for a slinger if you machine out the slinger shaped cone they added to the end cover instead of drilling holes in it.

Is it as simple as machining out what they added to the new covers and then go back to a slinger?

Maybe just one more case of you can't make it better if you don't know how it worked in the first place.

Bingo- but I wonder if that's not a cost effective solution, as they would have to replace the side cover, (few machinists left at most dealerships) push rod pieces, and gaskets, at a cost of about $230/unit.  HD has produced over two hundred thousand 2017/2018 units, so this is a 50 million dollar fix.


Offline VDeuce

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 679
  • Country: us
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #721 on: December 02, 2017, 06:27:53 AM »
Great diagram, FSG.

Has anyone tried a cable conversion with slinger on an M8 to prove transfer stops?

Offline rigidthumper

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4410
  • Country: us
  • Buying a scalpel, don't make you a surgeon.
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #722 on: December 02, 2017, 06:39:48 AM »
Great diagram, FSG.

Has anyone tried a cable conversion with slinger on an M8 to prove transfer stops?
Good question! Any M8 softails having transfer issues?

Offline crewchief25H

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: us
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #723 on: December 02, 2017, 06:51:20 AM »
I have a 18 with transfer issues. My dealer called Harley Tech and was told they have a oil deflector prototype they are installing in the trans. I'm working thru the transfer validation to get one installed.
My bike has 600 miles on the clock. At 490 dealer filled tranny with 12 oz.  Dealer wants me to get to 1000 miles to validate TA0022 and then HD will send someone out to install the deflector..

Anybody know what this "deflector" looks like?

Offline VDeuce

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 679
  • Country: us
Re: M8 trans fluid leaking in primary
« Reply #724 on: December 02, 2017, 09:22:37 AM »
Great diagram, FSG.

Has anyone tried a cable conversion with slinger on an M8 to prove transfer stops?
Good question! Any M8 softails having transfer issues?
From what I have heard, being cable operated, the 18 Softails don't transfer.

But, I would really like to see proof that a cable would resolve the issue on a Touring bike that has the issue. I would think it would. If it were my bike and I had a non-batwing fairing, I'd do the retrofit. The batwing would be more challenging due to having to drill hole for cable. Road Kings and Road Glides would be easy I would think.