M8 issues rare ?

[MPop]

A while back I posted asking if now was the time to buy an M8. General consensus was to wait until the '18s came out. Is the problems rare enough now that it should be safe to buy a Streetglide ?

[sbcharlie]

buy one, its the best harley they have built. 

[Ohio HD]

I suggest reading through the M8 section if you haven't already. I think it's best said as, buyer beware. Myself, I would wait.

[DTTJGlide]

I have a 17 RG built 4/17, 17,200 miles I ride pretty aggressively, no problems, love it. I feel for those with problems so I guess it's a crap shoot, but it seems like there are a lot out there that are running OK.

[goose2]

 I have owned several twin cams and now an m8. While I enjoyed the twin cams I wouldn't trade my m8 for two of the twin cams. The M8 is the best Harley to date.

[rbabos]

I have owned several twin cams and now an m8. While I enjoyed the twin cams I wouldn't trade my m8 for two of the twin cams. The M8 is the best Harley to date.

You mean the best conventional Harley to date. The best Harley, production was stopped.
Ron

[twincamzz]

I bought my 2017 Limited back in August of 2016. Now have over 16600 miles on it, mostly trouble free. My bike had the transmission to Primary transfer issue... transferred 4 ounces in 7000 miles. On 9/18/2107 my dealer replaced oil seal and sprocket shaft spacer and so far so good. However I have only ridden a couple thousand miles so too early to really tell if problem is fixed or not.
However, on 9/27/2107 Harley released TA0022 which addresses the transfer issue. 2014-2016 touring models are included as well as 2017-2018 touring models.
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=88592.msg1184303#msg1184303


For 2014-2016 touring models the repair stated is to replace oil seal and sprocket shaft spacer. ( this is the repair done to my bike...a 2017)
For 2017-2018 touring models it says to adjust fluid levels and check again in 1000 miles.

TA0022 also states " While some oil transfer can occur, instances where 150 ml (5fl.oz) or more have transferred in less than 8000km (5000mi) should be reviewed by the direction."

Personally, I don't think any level of transfer is acceptable & had I known of this issue I may not have made my purchase. I'm pushing 60 and this was supposed to be my last motorcycle. Disappointed that I spent damn near 30K for a motorcycle and have to put up with this. I never in my life would've dreamed about spending that much $$$ but I thought WTH, it's only money.lol. The motor still impresses the hell out of me, from the torque and horsepower to the smoothness, but now I constantly check transmission fluid levels where with my Old Evo if I didn't see a leak I new fluid levels were okay.
Not sure the Factory really understands exactly what is causing the problem or how to fix it. Even if they did, not sure they will step up & fix the problem due to $$$. Now that they have stated transfer to a certain level is in spec I suppose this is similar to the twin cam crank runout issue...let's just change the spec and it's all good. The fact that TA0022 includes 2018 Touring models would make me think twice.

[FSG]

I suggest reading through the M8 section if you haven't already. I think it's best said as, buyer beware. Myself, I would wait.

I visited my local HD Dealer yesterday, actually walked there so was good exercise.

Gave the show floor a quick once over and headed to the parts counter. 

Ordered the inner and outer clutch ramps for a 2018 Softail, was asked for the Model (WTF), replied a Cable Clutch Model.

Well the parts guy figured it out, of course I could have given him the P/Ns but .........  he figured it out.

I asked about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues, recieved the Blank Look followed by the "Don't know anything about it/them and no issues with any bikes sold here".

No problem, my ramps will be in the country (none at the moment) and in Brisbane next week.

As I was leaving I checked the clutch lever feel on a new Softail which brought a sales guy over.  Blah blah blah yes OK, which lead me to ask him about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues to which he answered "we've received nothing from HD to advise of any issues".   I mentioned the documents by name M-1450 (Revised) and TA0022, he then moved to his desk and pulled up HD Net did a search and found nothing.  That didn't surprise me and although I could have taken the keyboard and mouse from him and gone to the appropriate section I refrained.  I suggested he Google M-1450 which he did and surprise surprise up cam a forum and the bulletin.  He read it with interest and we had a short discussion.

My departing comments included that his goal for the day was to find the documents on HD Net and to figure out why he and the other staff we unaware of the issues, IMO the show floor is exactly where the 2017s and 18s should stay until they get the issues fixed.

There is no new bike in my foreseeable future.   

[PoorUB]

Back in 2016 and hearing talk of a new engine I bought a 2016 Limited and have not regretted it. With the problems with oil transfer with the M8 I am glad I didn't wait. Granted, it affects a very few motorcycles but knowing my luck I would get one that transfers oil.

[Ohio HD]

I suggest reading through the M8 section if you haven't already. I think it's best said as, buyer beware. Myself, I would wait.

I visited my local HD Dealer yesterday, actually walked there so was good exercise.

Gave the show floor a quick once over and headed to the parts counter. 

Ordered the inner and outer clutch ramps for a 2018 Softail, was asked for the Model (WTF), replied a Cable Clutch Model.

Well the parts guy figured it out, of course I could have given him the P/Ns but .........  he figured it out.

I asked about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues, recieved the Blank Look followed by the "Don't know anything about it/them and no issues with any bikes sold here".

No problem, my ramps will be in the country (none at the moment) and in Brisbane next week.

As I was leaving I checked the clutch lever feel on a new Softail which brought a sales guy over.  Blah blah blah yes OK, which lead me to ask him about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues to which he answered "we've received nothing from HD to advise of any issues".   I mentioned the documents by name M-1450 (Revised) and TA0022, he then moved to his desk and pulled up HD Net did a search and found nothing.  That didn't surprise me and although I could have taken the keyboard and mouse from him and gone to the appropriate section I refrained.  I suggested he Google M-1450 which he did and surprise surprise up cam a forum and the bulletin.  He read it with interest and we had a short discussion.

My departing comments included that his goal for the day was to find the documents on HD Net and to figure out why he and the other staff we unaware of the issues, IMO the show floor is exactly where the 2017s and 18s should stay until they get the issues fixed.

There is no new bike in my foreseeable future.   

That's both interesting as well as sad that dealers aren't kept up to speed on bikes issues. Hard to sell something when the customer has more ammo than the salesman.

[rbabos]

I suggest reading through the M8 section if you haven't already. I think it's best said as, buyer beware. Myself, I would wait.

I visited my local HD Dealer yesterday, actually walked there so was good exercise.

Gave the show floor a quick once over and headed to the parts counter. 

Ordered the inner and outer clutch ramps for a 2018 Softail, was asked for the Model (WTF), replied a Cable Clutch Model.

Well the parts guy figured it out, of course I could have given him the P/Ns but .........  he figured it out.

I asked about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues, recieved the Blank Look followed by the "Don't know anything about it/them and no issues with any bikes sold here".

No problem, my ramps will be in the country (none at the moment) and in Brisbane next week.

As I was leaving I checked the clutch lever feel on a new Softail which brought a sales guy over.  Blah blah blah yes OK, which lead me to ask him about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues to which he answered "we've received nothing from HD to advise of any issues".   I mentioned the documents by name M-1450 (Revised) and TA0022, he then moved to his desk and pulled up HD Net did a search and found nothing.  That didn't surprise me and although I could have taken the keyboard and mouse from him and gone to the appropriate section I refrained.  I suggested he Google M-1450 which he did and surprise surprise up cam a forum and the bulletin.  He read it with interest and we had a short discussion.

My departing comments included that his goal for the day was to find the documents on HD Net and to figure out why he and the other staff we unaware of the issues, IMO the show floor is exactly where the 2017s and 18s should stay until they get the issues fixed.

There is no new bike in my foreseeable future.   

That's both interesting as well as sad that dealers aren't kept up to speed on bikes issues. Hard to sell something when the customer has more ammo than the salesman.

Only a small percentage of us in the big picture that find out what's going on. The other 99% can't even change their own oil. Hd's favorite customers. Forums must be a real pain in the ass for them.
Ron

[Ohio HD]

Only a small percentage of us in the big picture that find out what's going on. The other 99% can't even change their own oil. Hd's favorite customers. Forums must be a real pain in the ass for them.
Ron

This is probably true. As well some just don't seek out information.

I just wonder how many would buy a new Chevrolet truck that passed oil into the cooling system, and needed topped off, and cooling system flushed on occasion. But they'll consider a new HD that transfers fluid.

[rbabos]

Only a small percentage of us in the big picture that find out what's going on. The other 99% can't even change their own oil. Hd's favorite customers. Forums must be a real pain in the ass for them.
Ron

This is probably true. As well some just don't seek out information.

I just wonder how many would buy a new Chevrolet truck that passed oil into the cooling system, and needed topped off, and cooling system flushed on occasion. But they'll consider a new HD that transfers fluid.

Well, my wife explained it to me once. The MoCo has the ability to suck peoples brains out and sell the name. Most of my brain cells have grown back.
Ron

[Will-Run]

 

[Hossamania]

I get a kick out of reading car reviews when they are testing a higher end vehicle, a Jag or some such, and it won't go into reverse, or goes into limp mode three days out of a seven day test.
If a low end Chevy or Ford did that, it would be vilified. But since the car costs as much as three regular cars, it is an "inconvenience."

[joelp34252]

I just wonder how many would buy a new Chevrolet truck that passed oil into the cooling system, and needed topped off, and cooling system flushed on occasion. But they'll consider a new HD that transfers fluid.
[/quote]                       Google "chevy pickup 5.3 burning oil"


joel 2001 FLHT

[Moparnut72]

I think all new models, no matter who builds them are going to have teething issues. I bought one of the very first R75/5's in 1970.It had a couple of issues, carburators gave me trouble, slides hanging up. BMW replaced them and wouldn't even tell the dealer what the problem was. We tried everything to correct the problem with no result. The factory apparently re-engineered them. Also the stator went bad. The factory started epoxying after the issue surfaced. In fact BMW used me as kind of a beta tester as I was putting a lot of miles on the bike in a short period of time both as a daily driver and a long hauler.

I now have a 2013 HD Ram. It is the first year of a complete redesign. It has had some problems, no great surprise. All issues have been taken care of with no push back from Chrysler and all these issues have been addressed in later models.

The difference here I guess is the MoCo should figure out the problem and fix it, on existing bikes and incorporate the fix on the assembly line.
kk

[rbabos]

I think all new models, no matter who builds them are going to have teething issues. I bought one of the very first R75/5's in 1970.It had a couple of issues, carburators gave me trouble, slides hanging up. BMW replaced them and wouldn't even tell the dealer what the problem was. We tried everything to correct the problem with no result. The factory apparently re-engineered them. Also the stator went bad. The factory started epoxying after the issue surfaced. In fact BMW used me as kind of a beta tester as I was putting a lot of miles on the bike in a short period of time both as a daily driver and a long hauler.

I now have a 2013 HD Ram. It is the first year of a complete redesign. It has had some problems, no great surprise. All issues have been taken care of with no push back from Chrysler and all these issues have been addressed in later models.

The difference here I guess is the MoCo should figure out the problem and fix it, on existing bikes and incorporate the fix on the assembly line.
kk

Exactly. Stand behind the damn product.
Ron

[88b]

I get a kick out of reading car reviews when they are testing a higher end vehicle, a Jag or some such, and it won't go into reverse, or goes into limp mode three days out of a seven day test.
If a low end Chevy or Ford did that, it would be vilified. But since the car costs as much as three regular cars, it is an "inconvenience."

That rarely if ever happens because the press fleet are hand built vehicles that have all done at least a thousand miles on a blueprint engine that was run in on a dyno. The vehicle then has the odometer zeroed and new tyres fitted .

[88b]

I suggest reading through the M8 section if you haven't already. I think it's best said as, buyer beware. Myself, I would wait.

I visited my local HD Dealer yesterday, actually walked there so was good exercise.

Gave the show floor a quick once over and headed to the parts counter. 

Ordered the inner and outer clutch ramps for a 2018 Softail, was asked for the Model (WTF), replied a Cable Clutch Model.

Well the parts guy figured it out, of course I could have given him the P/Ns but .........  he figured it out.

I asked about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues, recieved the Blank Look followed by the "Don't know anything about it/them and no issues with any bikes sold here".

No problem, my ramps will be in the country (none at the moment) and in Brisbane next week.

As I was leaving I checked the clutch lever feel on a new Softail which brought a sales guy over.  Blah blah blah yes OK, which lead me to ask him about the Sumping and Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer issues to which he answered "we've received nothing from HD to advise of any issues".   I mentioned the documents by name M-1450 (Revised) and TA0022, he then moved to his desk and pulled up HD Net did a search and found nothing.  That didn't surprise me and although I could have taken the keyboard and mouse from him and gone to the appropriate section I refrained.  I suggested he Google M-1450 which he did and surprise surprise up cam a forum and the bulletin.  He read it with interest and we had a short discussion.

My departing comments included that his goal for the day was to find the documents on HD Net and to figure out why he and the other staff we unaware of the issues, IMO the show floor is exactly where the 2017s and 18s should stay until they get the issues fixed.

There is no new bike in my foreseeable future.   

That's both interesting as well as sad that dealers aren't kept up to speed on bikes issues. Hard to sell something when the customer has more ammo than the salesman.

Remember the circuit breaker recall in 03? A friend got a new 100th anniversary Ultra that kept cutting out , almost got him flattened a few times. Dealer couldn't find anything wrong with the bike, then I found the recall bulletin possibly on HTT . Printed off and gave it to him , the dealer told him it was a hoax and I knew F all . Two days later they phoned him and said not to ride the bike it was dangerous .

[farmall]

I'd never spend money to be a beta tester, especially beta testing expensive toys. "Prestige" motorcycle brands are not prestigious in the minds of mechanics. When it comes in the shop it's just another broken turd needing repair. I don't admire (post Airhead) BMWs either after working on them. No wonder they depreciate rapidly...

I suggest  ignoring dealers, salesman and anyone who isn't an experienced wrench as far as machinery is concerned.. They may be nice people but non-mechanics know FA about machinery and no one with a vested interest in lightening my wallet inspires trust.  Even nice people aren't immune to being stupid. They may actually believe in their product but if they aren't a mechanic they lack understanding to have an informed opinion.

Wait and see what independent mechanics say about the engine over time. Let some unfortunate, trusting, eager, desperate gullible shmuck pay the dealer to handle (or not) the bugs. They need the life lesson anyway.

Most Americans barely ride their Harleys. Buy used and take advantage or buy new AFTER that model is PROVEN debugged by the Harley non-dealer community.

[MPop]

Talked to salesman at 3 different Dealers today. None of them knew of the problem and acted like I didn't know wtf I was talking about. Asked each of them if they ever read this forum or any other forum. All of them said no. 

[Ohio HD]

I stated a while back that the best thing you can do is practice buyer beware. If you buy one and simply tool around on it, you may never see any issues. But then when the TC went from a five piece to a three piece crank, 2002 or 2003, and there were issues with crank twist, I doubt that many sales people ever knew what was what. And guys that tooled around on them probably never had any crank issues.

I would also bet that 80% of the sales force at HD changes jobs frequently. You have some guys that make a career at HD and do know the bikes, but that isn't the majority.

[PoorUB]

Talked to salesman at 3 different Dealers today. None of them knew of the problem and acted like I didn't know wtf I was talking about. Asked each of them if they ever read this forum or any other forum. All of them said no. 

I am convinced that dealer salesmen don't know about anything technical about what they are selling. Paint colors and accessories they can help with, but don't ask them about the doohickey that keeps breaking.

Even when Gonenorth bought his BMW. He wanted a CB radio so we can communicate on the fly and wanted it all integrated with the factory sound system, no problem the dealer said. Once they installed the CB it was decided that they couldn't do it. Gonenorth and I did some research and got it hooked up. We may as well have installed it ourselves as we had to tear into the bike so far.

[FSG]

I would also bet that 80% of the sales force at HD changes jobs frequently.

  it's just a shop and they are retail salesmen

[Admiral Akbar]

I stated a while back that the best thing you can do is practice buyer beware. If you buy one and simply tool around on it, you may never see any issues. But then when the TC went from a five piece to a three piece crank, 2002 or 2003, and there were issues with crank twist, I doubt that many sales people ever knew what was what. And guys that tooled around on them probably never had any crank issues.

I would also bet that 80% of the sales force at HD changes jobs frequently. You have some guys that make a career at HD and do know the bikes, but that isn't the majority.

I'm surprised FSG didn't correct you on this..

[Thermodyne]

Talked to salesman at 3 different Dealers today. None of them knew of the problem and acted like I didn't know wtf I was talking about. Asked each of them if they ever read this forum or any other forum. All of them said no. 

I am convinced that dealer salesmen don't know about anything technical about what they are selling. Paint colors and accessories they can help with, but don't ask them about the doohickey that keeps breaking.

Even when Gonenorth bought his BMW. He wanted a CB radio so we can communicate on the fly and wanted it all integrated with the factory sound system, no problem the dealer said. Once they installed the CB it was decided that they couldn't do it. Gonenorth and I did some research and got it hooked up. We may as well have installed it ourselves as we had to tear into the bike so far.

They talk about what they are trained to talk about.  And they are trained to deflect any questions about reliability.  Ever shop for a car and notice that you get pretty much the same spiel from each dealer.  They point you at the good bells and whistles and avoid the stuff that is lacking. 

When the M8 first came out they were all starting the scooters on the floor and showing how smooth they were.  Till they started running rough from all the cold starts and no road time.  Well duh.  That's what salesmen know.

[BigT]

I know the mechanic at my local dealership. He does most of the motor work and dyno tuning. They have not seen sumping issues as of yet.

[badcooky]

Same here ,I've known the salesman at my local Hd shop for over forty years ,his son is the mechanic there ,they've had no sumping or transfer issues but they have seen the memos from the MOFOCO.

[Fat11Lo]

I think the biggest problem is the help at HD dealers, I stop in mine fairly often and rarely see the same people. There are some exceptions and those are the ones I rely on when I need something.

Bought a CVO Street Glide back in June and when we dropped it off for 1000 mile service there were probably 4 or 5 techs that were wrapping up for the day and they came out to look at our bike as the service writer was checking it in. None of them looked like they could pass for over 25 years old, doesn't mean they're not smart guys, but have to question their experience. I have been a mechanic for almost 30 years now and I know you have to get experience somewhere, but to have an entire shop full of young techs doesn't appeal to me. Our local dealerships are run more like a retail business than a service based business and their permanent "Now Hiring, no experience necessary" signs reflect the help they do have. The other thing is from what I understand they don't pay these guys very well either, so once they do get some experience and knowledge they are gone.

I asked about the oil pump issues, they told me of one instance at their downtown location, happened on a road test after the 1000 mile service. Funny thing is I met the guy that owns that bike on a ride earlier this year, he said they took care of it, replaced the entire engine without a fuss. I asked about the transfer issue, they had never heard of it. I explained what I have read about and I asked that my transmission fluid level as well as primary be checked before they were drained. They did report back to me that the trans was down to the top of the add mark, but couldn't tell if the primary was overfilled, at least they attempted to address my concern.

I have worked for dealerships in my career and have never seen a model change come without issues. I think Harley's biggest problem is a lack of education and experience on a dealership level and these people are not "equipped" to deal with customers that have issues especially ones that have some background knowledge. The owners of these dealerships are more concerned with new bike sales and would rather their employees be out on social media drumming up sales than pay for the time to educate them to service customer's properly.

When was the last time you were in any type of dealership and seen an award on the wall for best customer service? I've seen them for #1 in sales