160+?

[PoorUB]

I have a 124 now that makes 137 and as much fun as it is, I'm a little bored.

It may be time to spend some cash on an import sportbike to get your thrills and run the Harley when you cruise or travel. It would be one heck of a lot less money in the long run!

[08flstf]

I already have to be careful in the rain. The sport bike or import bike thing doesn't work as those are made for vertically challenged people. I only want one bike to pay insurance on unless I win the lottery. lol 

[CVOKing]

My 124" is just shy of 160hp. It's in dyno section.
A B2 head 124" from Kendall Johnson would smash
the 160 mark

[Nastytls]

I already have to be careful in the rain. The sport bike or import bike thing doesn't work as those are made for vertically challenged people. I only want one bike to pay insurance on unless I win the lottery. lol

I would disagree. I'm 6'7" and at 43 have ridden sport bikes my entire life. I bought a R9T Racer this year as a twisty toy and despite it's really aggressive riding position I've put 300 miles on in a day. You want fast with zero reliability issues or PMS, get a ZX14, they are quite comfortable and will flat destroy all but the most extreme Harley and not even break a sweat.

[PoorUB]

I already have to be careful in the rain. The sport bike or import bike thing doesn't work as those are made for vertically challenged people. I only want one bike to pay insurance on unless I win the lottery. lol

For what it costs to build real HP in a Harley it would be a lot less money to buy a used sport bike and pay insurance on both!

[Ohio HD]

But you guys forget one thing. Anyone can have a fast sport bike, all you have to do is buy it. But making your Harley a fast Harley, well, not everyone can do that. Some of you guys are ridding HD's maybe in the last five to ten years, before that other brands. Some of us, myself included, Harley's are all we've ever ridden or want. Myself since 1979.

So like they say, if I have to explain it.....     


I say go for the 160+ Twin Cam. Not that many of them out there, you'd be in a small but respected club.

[pwmorris]

IF you are bored with 140, then 160 wont satisfy either.
You will spend cubic dollar per hp when you get over the 140 mark.
For me a 120-130hp is the most fun as you can ride it and go 10/10ths on it.
When i was running 160hp it wasnt as fun on the street. Had to be super careful.

IF you are bored with 140, then 160 wont satisfy either.
You will spend cubic dollar per hp when you get over the 140 mark.
For me a 120-130hp is the most fun as you can ride it and go 10/10ths on it.
When i was running 160hp it wasnt as fun on the street. Had to be super careful.

    ...and it really sucks when you get caught out in the rain with all that power on tap. A quick learning curve will happen.
The bike will give you the sensation of like it's on ice if you try to apply a little too much throttle too fast. I found out that this will easily happen in at least the 1st three gears to me. I've very quickly found myself changing my normal riding style and having to basically baby the bike to keep it from busting the rear tire loose on any wet roads. Hell...it's hard enough to learn to hold back on it on dry roads when the bike just wants to get up and go. The temptation is always there to feel that horsepower.

Two guys who have been there and know the deal....   on the street it ain't just about power, power, power. Stock wheelbase HD's on a factory rear tire are simply no match for these big hp builds.
I'm talking your original question-
Legit, 160 SAE PLUS-all day, with all run conditions, and no games. Not close, almost, could do it with this or that, or any other BS secret sauce on one single manipulated Dyno. At this level, 160 plus is really 160-170, or more, repeatable on any Dyno, any day, with no fear (saw a big talker at a shootout saying his bike made 160, then pulled 142....then with  his embarrassment growing as the truth was shown in front of his boys, he meekly said "well maybe 160 at the crank"...I Just shook my head...lol). It also ain't about ringers, race bikes, or trailer queens either, but real, daily driven, daily started, heat soaked, all day pump gas brutes-This is where a 143" would shine. No need to ring it out upstairs like my bike-nope, just turn the key and go, or dumb the motor downstairs with a different cam profile. Killer.
To really enjoy and appreciate big power on the street, the bike really has to be designed around the power to hook, handle, and deal with it. Otherwise it's an exercise in frustration....
My 126" current build is way more fun as a daily driver than my old 124"-guess I learned over the years...
With the cam profile I have now, and the way the power comes in, it's like I have two bikes as it is pretty mild around town, then a beast upstairs. The old 124" hit so hard, so early, it was as said....spin, spin, spin, unless I constantly backed off the throttle, or it was a wheelie machine....slow it down and short shift and it was jerky as I twisted it, or I sometimes couldn't find a nice, easy cruise rpm if traffic wasn't just right. My current bike is just the opposite-smooth roll on power till 4 grand, and most of my freeway and city stuff is below that. Only issue I have now (not really a big deal), is I run a solid sprocket which lets you know when you are backing out of the sweet spot power band, so I have to pull in the clutch and release the power. Only took me a decade to figure out how to run a 170 HP bike on the street, make a 9 Second pass, and still really enjoy it every time I turn the key and ride it wherever and whenever I want here in SoCal.
Your results may vary...

OP, it really comes down to your goals and what you are trying to accomplish.
If you are serious, and not just dreamin', I would order a 143" and pull that motor out and sell it, or keep it as a spare or for another bike. Done-


Sometimes, the more you get, the less you get out of it in real enjoyment and actually riding the bike on a daily basis.

BTW, you guys talking rice rockets...this is HTT HARLEY tech talk....take that import stuff to another forum....or get off the net and actually build an American V Twin that will actually eat rice for breakfast and cruise with your other HD buddies for dinner.....

[jam65]

Well said Paul. If you want to talk about buy and play..... Some of us like to push the envelope to make something more than it was intended to be. I am, among others who would consider this next level of performance a passion.

[PoorUB]

    ...and it really sucks when you get caught out in the rain with all that power on tap. A quick learning curve will happen.
The bike will give you the sensation of like it's on ice if you try to apply a little too much throttle too fast.

It is called a throttle, learn to use it!

[08flstf]

Well I just want to say thanks to everyone that has taken the time to offer suggestions, even the sport bike suggestions. I have no interest in sport bikes but understand the reasons for suggesting them. It would be easy, uncomfortable, but easy. I've ridden them and am in no way comfortable in that riding position. I want to stick with my Harley because even though it cost more, sometimes it's more fun making something fast that's not supposed to be fast. It's fast now but I get restless sometimes and want to change things up a bit. The 143 sounds good, but I don't think I'd get enough for my used 124 to do that. I have homework to do now and some head porters to talk to. I will definitely let you all know if I attempt this. Supposed to go to work in Puerto Rico soon and if that works out this should be a doable project.

[Ohio HD]

    ...and it really sucks when you get caught out in the rain with all that power on tap. A quick learning curve will happen.
The bike will give you the sensation of like it's on ice if you try to apply a little too much throttle too fast.

It is called a throttle, learn to use it!

Riding a 130+ HP and TQ HD is way different than a sport bike with 130 HP and 80 TQ. The HD V-Twin and 130+ TQ that comes in fast will spin that tire in the rain easily, and unwanted if not very careful.

I'm pretty sure Ray knows how to use a throttle. 

[PoorUB]

    ...and it really sucks when you get caught out in the rain with all that power on tap. A quick learning curve will happen.
The bike will give you the sensation of like it's on ice if you try to apply a little too much throttle too fast.

It is called a throttle, learn to use it!

Riding a 130+ HP and TQ HD is way different than a sport bike with 130 HP and 80 TQ. The HD V-Twin and 130+ TQ that comes in fast will spin that tire in the rain easily, and unwanted if not very careful.

I'm pretty sure Ray knows how to use a throttle.

The  R1 and wet roads will spin the tires with zero effort too. Cold asphalt is fun too as the tires like a little heat in 'em to get traction. Below about 65 degrees they are like riding on ice. Add cold and rain and it is worse.

What is real fun is when it is about 65 degrees is to hit the throttle and the back tire breaks loose, but just let 'er spin, the tire warms up from the friction and suddenly it hooks and lofts the front tire.

I am sure Ray knows how to use the throttle.

[hbkeith]

But you guys forget one thing. Anyone can have a fast sport bike,  Some of you guys are ridding HD's maybe in the last five to ten years, before that other brands. Some of us, myself included, Harley's are all we've ever ridden or want. Myself since 1979.

So like they say, if I have to explain it.....     

[No Cents]

    Having good throttle control on wet roads is why I said there will be a quick learning curve. You will learn fast...or chances are you will dump the bike. Give it a little too much throttle...and your skating the back tire with that much horsepower and torque going to the rear wheel.
    My 124" only delivers 100hp and 150tq @ 3500 rpm's. My normal casual everyday riding style I shift right around 3500 rpm's between gears. No way can I do that on wet roads and keep the bike upright and under me. I try my best to not get caught out in the rain...but it never fails...it sometimes happens, and I have to change my riding style a lot to get the bike and myself home safe in one piece.


     added later:

  if money doesn't come into play...like was suggested prior...I'd get a 143"er and bolt it in and have it tuned...and be done with it.
The 143" will cure your want for more power. By the time you spend all that money trying to make a 124" make 160+ hp you will have close to what a crate 143" engine costs...and there is no guarantee that the 124" will make 160+. The 143" will do 160+ hp right out of the gate in it's sleep...on any dyno it's put on.
   A lot of time of trial and error will go down that path if you do choose to try to make a 124 have the horsepower your wanting. B2 heads that have been loved on can get you the horsepower your looking for out a 124. But...a lot more parts have to play along with them too.

[PoorUB]

But you guys forget one thing. Anyone can have a fast sport bike, all you have to do is buy it. But making your Harley a fast Harley, well, not everyone can do that. Some of you guys are ridding HD's maybe in the last five to ten years, before that other brands. Some of us, myself included, Harley's are all we've ever ridden or want. Myself since 1979.

So like they say, if I have to explain it.....     


I say go for the 160+ Twin Cam. Not that many of them out there, you'd be in a small but respected club.

For me it is about the money. I don't have the coin to drop $25K on a motorcycle, then drop $10k-$15k more then sell it in a couple years and take a beating on it. I have a basically stock 2016 Limited with 18,000 miles on it. How much do I want to toss into a ride I will most likely replace in 3 years.

I bought my 2003 R1 with a bad engine for  $1,000, and put maybe another $1,000 into it and it is fast enough for rot my brains. I played the 107" cams, heads and so on. I can not afford to run down that road over and over again.

[1workinman]

  Perhaps the bar could be lowered a tad say to the low 150s or even 150 and that is a great running bike . Even the mid 140s or high 140s is a nice running bike and do it every day . Sure you can build or have built a high flier but smooth linear power and no PMS in a heavy bike like I ride works for me . I will admit I want more than a LC 124 has to offer , I just like the rush I get from feeling it pull hard . I was given good advice when ridding in the rain with a large engine and I was not fond of the experience but managed to keep it up right damn . I rather have a manageable 138 or so than a 160 and PMS BS . The only person you have to make happy is you . I understand it is not about what I want what I am suggestion is you have a good running bike now and to get to those levels is probably cost some serious coin and may not be as enjoyable to ride as you have now   i

[Ohio HD]

It for sure can be done, here's a 124 that Kelly built. It rocks, but also notice the cams he's using, S&S 675's. I have no idea how street able these might be for any type of extended length riding, I'm sure he can speak to it. However he does race this bike.


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=97891.0


When I built my 124 I was wanting to keep it more streetable, and as such made it a milder build. I quickly discovered that it wasn't enough for me, and will be exchanging cams this winter. I'm also pretty sure that won't satisfy me, but will keep me happier for a short time. Eventuality I know the heads will go back to Larry, I'll order new pistons, order an exhaust, more clutch items, and away we go. But I also have a 2nd HD that is mostly stock, and is fun to ride too.

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=100336.0

[tommy g]

Ohio,,to what exhaust would you swap?

[Ohio HD]

I would be looking at Burns, or Wegner to start I guess. Possibly a mix of parts, but for that I would look for help from those who have done it.

[1workinman]

It for sure can be done, here's a 124 that Kelly built. It rocks, but also notice the cams he's using, S&S 675's. I have no idea how street able these might be for any type of extended length riding, I'm sure he can speak to it. However he does race this bike.


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=97891.0


When I built my 124 I was wanting to keep it more streetable, and as such made it a milder build. I quickly discovered that it wasn't enough for me, and will be exchanging cams this winter. I'm also pretty sure that won't satisfy me, but will keep me happier for a short time. Eventuality I know the heads will go back to Larry, I'll order new pistons, order an exhaust, more clutch items, and away we go. But I also have a 2nd HD that is mostly stock, and is fun to ride too.

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=100336.0

A while back I was discussing the 143 engine with SS rep and asked about different camshafts other than the 635 and the fellow told me that they tried the 640 and the 675 but did not make the power they wanted. I did ask if added any compression to the engine well no. I suspect the results would have been different if  that was the case lol

[tommy g]

I would be looking at Burns, or Wegner to start I guess. Possibly a mix of parts, but for that I would look for help from those who have done it.

Is the Zilla falling short? I suppose the correct made to order pipe has the edge.

[Ohio HD]

I would be looking at Burns, or Wegner to start I guess. Possibly a mix of parts, but for that I would look for help from those who have done it.

Is the Zilla falling short? I suppose the correct made to order pipe has the edge.

For what I have now, the Boarzilla is fine. I don't know that it'll easily or at all support above 150 HP. Possibly the head pipes will, and use a different muffler. But that's probably playing a what if game.

[tommy g]

Gotcha!

[Jonny Cash]

It for sure can be done, here's a 124 that Kelly built. It rocks, but also notice the cams he's using, S&S 675's. I have no idea how street able these might be for any type of extended length riding, I'm sure he can speak to it. However he does race this bike.


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=97891.0


When I built my 124 I was wanting to keep it more streetable, and as such made it a milder build. I quickly discovered that it wasn't enough for me, and will be exchanging cams this winter. I'm also pretty sure that won't satisfy me, but will keep me happier for a short time. Eventuality I know the heads will go back to Larry, I'll order new pistons, order an exhaust, more clutch items, and away we go. But I also have a 2nd HD that is mostly stock, and is fun to ride too.

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=100336.0

Interesting topic, and I have a little insight.  Mine made 150 and a few as a crate engine with headwork, made a fine everyday rider, would have rode it anywhere.  Cam change and a big compression bump took me to mid 160's, probably more but I have really short gearing on the bike.  Its still streetable, the 675 cam really feels no different than the 640 as far as manners. Fuel is my limiting factor, E 85 is found in abundance here in IL, but not so much everywhere.  But that peak HP number doesn't tell the whole story, it only looks like 10 more HP, but the average HP, or TQ for that matter over the intended operating range, make the 2 combos entirely different animals.  It goes over 150 @ 5200 now and carrires 160 out to 7k, its a beast, worth .7 at the track this year, so that 10 HP bump on the sheet doesn't tell the whole story.  A 143 is the easy way to a streetable 160 HP.  I have two other daily riders, a stock 88 police bike and a 110 roadglide, the latter which will get a build very similar to Brians 124, which to me looks like a perfect big cube touring bike

[Ohio HD]

It for sure can be done, here's a 124 that Kelly built. It rocks, but also notice the cams he's using, S&S 675's. I have no idea how street able these might be for any type of extended length riding, I'm sure he can speak to it. However he does race this bike.


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=97891.0


When I built my 124 I was wanting to keep it more streetable, and as such made it a milder build. I quickly discovered that it wasn't enough for me, and will be exchanging cams this winter. I'm also pretty sure that won't satisfy me, but will keep me happier for a short time. Eventuality I know the heads will go back to Larry, I'll order new pistons, order an exhaust, more clutch items, and away we go. But I also have a 2nd HD that is mostly stock, and is fun to ride too.

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=100336.0

Interesting topic, and I have a little insight.  Mine made 150 and a few as a crate engine with headwork, made a fine everyday rider, would have rode it anywhere.  Cam change and a big compression bump took me to mid 160's, probably more but I have really short gearing on the bike.  Its still streetable, the 675 cam really feels no different than the 640 as far as manners. Fuel is my limiting factor, E 85 is found in abundance here in IL, but not so much everywhere.  But that peak HP number doesn't tell the whole story, it only looks like 10 more HP, but the average HP, or TQ for that matter over the intended operating range, make the 2 combos entirely different animals.  It goes over 150 @ 5200 now and carrires 160 out to 7k, its a beast, worth .7 at the track this year, so that 10 HP bump on the sheet doesn't tell the whole story.  A 143 is the easy way to a streetable 160 HP.  I have two other daily riders, a stock 88 police bike and a 110 roadglide, the latter which will get a build very similar to Brians 124, which to me looks like a perfect big cube touring bike

Thanks for the feedback on the 675 cams. They'll be on the short list for maybe next winter upgrades on the 124. As well as T-Man 662-3, Andrews 64, and Red Shift 687. All should give decent upper power. I think what I miss in the 124 that the 117 had was the rush of power when gaining RPM. This one still rushes, but the torque is up there the whole time, so it feels different. And I was hoping for a little more up top. It is a great touring motor no doubt about that. Starts easy, doesn't run hot.