17 RGU 107 loping

billbeemer · February 09, 2018, 03:53:25 AM

bike is stock, in heavy traffic when feathering clutch, bikes goes to super slow idle and lopes, sometimes dies. any ideas? it idles normally at 850, any way I can increase this a bit?

BVHOG · February 09, 2018, 05:56:55 AM

Quote from: billbeemer on February 09, 2018, 03:53:25 AM
bike is stock, in heavy traffic when feathering clutch, bikes goes to super slow idle and lopes, sometimes dies. any ideas? it idles normally at 850, any way I can increase this a bit?

Sounds to me like your going into engine temp management where it drops a cylinder.

billbeemer · February 10, 2018, 03:21:52 AM

dealer will replace neutral switch on clutch lever monday, says that's the problem. will inform

HV · February 10, 2018, 03:42:42 AM

Very common issue....Bike will start in gear with clutch pulled in normally ...if its intermittent and rough idling the switch assembly is the issue

Hossamania · February 10, 2018, 08:10:58 AM

How much time has been wasted chasing down that issue, thinking it's a problem with the tune or fuel and induction system?
One more step in the troubleshooting sequence.

rbabos · February 10, 2018, 08:26:54 AM

Quote from: Hossamania on February 10, 2018, 08:10:58 AM
How much time has been wasted chasing down that issue, thinking it's a problem with the tune or fuel and induction system?
One more step in the troubleshooting sequence.

I can picture some guy on a dyno driving himself bonkers trying to get a good idle.

Then again if it's a common issue, no problem, right?
Ron

hd06 · February 10, 2018, 09:44:31 AM

They all do that

HV · February 10, 2018, 12:19:36 PM

Not all.....just every second or 3rd one

Breeze · February 11, 2018, 04:37:29 AM

Help! I got lost on this thread quickly. How does the clutch lever switch (allows bike to be started in gear) have any effect on engine idle speed?

rbabos · February 11, 2018, 07:22:46 AM

Quote from: Breeze on February 11, 2018, 04:37:29 AM
Help! I got lost on this thread quickly. How does the clutch lever switch (allows bike to be started in gear) have any effect on engine idle speed?

It's Harley magic, or quirky sensitive CanBus system.
Ron

billbeemer · February 11, 2018, 12:00:21 PM

don't see the connection myself, but switch being replaced in the morn.......so will let you know.

HV · February 11, 2018, 12:13:01 PM

They ( the MOCO ) Say when the switch goes out it causes voltage spikes in the CanBus that confuse the system...its also connected to the Heat Management Part of the system ( Clutch position can bypass the management ) In any case when we replace them it cures the issue....we do a LOT of them ....some even stall at stops

Another issue is the Idle speed on the new bikes is no longer adjustable as in the past

HD/Wrench · February 12, 2018, 06:49:24 AM

factory calls out for 880 idle , then the heat management kicks in .. have not had on have an issue with the clutch sensor but thanks for the heads up

.

But I do not leave the idle that low and I take them out of EITMS as well . As most do not like the sound at idle .. take them out of CL in the idle range problem solved ..

rbabos · February 12, 2018, 07:51:35 AM

Quote from: HV on February 11, 2018, 12:13:01 PM
They ( the MOCO ) Say when the switch goes out it causes voltage spikes in the CanBus that confuse the system...its also connected to the Heat Management Part of the system ( Clutch position can bypass the management ) In any case when we replace them it cures the issue....we do a LOT of them ....some even stall at stops

Another issue is the Idle speed on the new bikes is no longer adjustable as in the past

So, when's the recall on those?
Ron

hogpipes1 · February 12, 2018, 08:44:26 AM

Is this system on all the bikes . ? thought it was just on police bikes. Another reason added to my list of i don't need a new one!

billbeemer · February 12, 2018, 12:54:20 PM

mo betta................all good on idle.

Prostock · February 12, 2018, 01:24:48 PM

Who wudda thunk, great info

Breeze · February 12, 2018, 02:02:26 PM

Thanks for the information. Even more reason that my '07 will probably be my last bike. I just can't learn as fast as they are changing. Especially electrical, which has always been a weak spot for me.

HV · February 12, 2018, 03:19:43 PM

Quote from: hogpipes1 on February 12, 2018, 08:44:26 AM
Is this system on all the bikes . ? thought it was just on police bikes. Another reason added to my list of i don't need a new one!

This is on all Bikes

Hossamania · February 12, 2018, 03:29:54 PM

Quote from: HV on February 12, 2018, 03:19:43 PM
Quote from: hogpipes1 on February 12, 2018, 08:44:26 AM
Is this system on all the bikes . ? thought it was just on police bikes. Another reason added to my list of i don't need a new one!

This is on all Bikes

What year did the clutch and sidestand safety switches become standard? And is it just the M8s being affected by the faulty clutch switch?

sfmichael · February 12, 2018, 03:47:24 PM

just one more reason to wait another year or two before updating my mount...or maybe just keep the 2013

I remember when I worked at the dealer in 2015/2016 we replaced plenty of switch modules

HV · February 12, 2018, 05:13:39 PM

Quote from: Hossamania on February 12, 2018, 03:29:54 PM
Quote from: HV on February 12, 2018, 03:19:43 PM
Quote from: hogpipes1 on February 12, 2018, 08:44:26 AM
Is this system on all the bikes . ? thought it was just on police bikes. Another reason added to my list of i don't need a new one!

This is on all Bikes

What year did the clutch and sidestand safety switches become standard? And is it just the M8s being affected by the faulty clutch switch?

No side stand switches....Modules for the clutch switch showed up in 2014 when they went to Can Bus ....they have updated the switch Part Numbers a few times ...we didnt see the Idle/Stall issues till 17

PoorUB · February 12, 2018, 05:21:52 PM

Quote from: HV on February 12, 2018, 05:13:39 PM
No side stand switches....Modules for the clutch switch showed up in 2014 when they went to Can Bus ....they have updated the switch Part Numbers a few times ...we didnt see the Idle/Stall issues till 17

Clutch switch started in '08, P/N 71620-08

HV · February 12, 2018, 06:13:15 PM

Havent seen any issues with the stand alone switches...just the integrated Module ones in the Can Bus Bikes

PoorUB · February 12, 2018, 06:15:21 PM

The clutch switch on my 2010 didn't work when I traded it in. I'm not sure how long before it had failed.

HV · February 12, 2018, 06:22:29 PM

Yes seen a few older ones fail but they dont effect any other systems when they do as with the Can Bus ones ....

2016CTRoadGlide · February 22, 2018, 03:24:22 AM

Quote from: billbeemer on February 12, 2018, 12:54:20 PM
mo betta................all good on idle.

I have the same issue. Could you share the name of the dealer? My dealer has tried to reproduce the issue and will not do anything until they can. I am tired of having the bike in the shop (oil pump for sumping; rocker arms replaced because they were rubbing on heads; fluid transfer; head bolt on rear cylinder sheared off and now this). Only 16,000 miles. Honda willing to give me great trade for a new 2018 Gold Wing (but it is not a Harley!)

hd06 · February 22, 2018, 03:38:17 AM

Ride it till it blows then you will get it fixed with a new motor with all the upgrades.

billbeemer · February 22, 2018, 04:11:54 AM

tell them it won't start in gear, and it's intermittent. tell them it died at a light, and almost caused an accident, which it did for me. we were returning from the falconheavy liftoff in titusville in bumper to bumper traffic, the damn thing died, i had to get neutral to restart. if they give u any "Potty mouth", call harley and tell them u don't feel safe. Tampa Harley took care of mine. it's such a small switch, don't know why your dealer doesn't just go ahead and replace it!!!! the times i have called Harley consumer line, they have been very responsive................

2016CTRoadGlide · February 22, 2018, 04:30:02 AM

Thanks for the input! I will call Tampa Harley to get part number and also try again.

HV · February 22, 2018, 03:37:17 PM

Its a small switch but unfortunately they have to replace the complete Left Hand Switch Module that has all the switches on it....still....no Biggie....I cant see why they are giving you grief ....unless they are unable to figure out how to test it...

2016CTRoadGlide · February 23, 2018, 05:52:37 AM

Quote from: HV on February 22, 2018, 03:37:17 PM
Its a small switch but unfortunately they have to replace the complete Left Hand Switch Module that has all the switches on it....still....no Biggie....I cant see why they are giving you grief ....unless they are unable to figure out how to test it...

Dealer agreed to update the calibration per notice dated 8/9/2017 to address a low rpm "sag" this morning. They then have to remap the bike with my SE Tuner so I hope to get the bike back on the road tomorrow before another storm hits the NE on Sunday. Hope this fixes the problem!

billbeemer · February 25, 2018, 02:37:19 AM

I didn't have a tuner, bike was stock ceppin Rinehart slip-ons. let us know results. clutch safety switch did the trick for me.

2016CTRoadGlide · February 26, 2018, 05:00:36 AM

Quote from: HV on February 22, 2018, 03:37:17 PM
Its a small switch but unfortunately they have to replace the complete Left Hand Switch Module that has all the switches on it....still....no Biggie....I cant see why they are giving you grief ....unless they are unable to figure out how to test it...

They would not replace the switch. They went ahead with the suggested Harley flash but bike ran poorly until they re-flashed with the SE Tuner to Stage 1 Dyno calibration. Took the bike out for a 250 mile trip and had no repeat of stalling. Bike ran great. I guess the gremlins decided to leave!

HV · February 26, 2018, 08:03:38 AM

The main thing is that its fixed.....If it ever stops starting in gear with the clutch in...then you need a switch

2016CTRoadGlide · February 26, 2018, 08:35:49 AM

Quote from: HV on February 26, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
The main thing is that its fixed.....If it ever stops starting in gear with the clutch in...then you need a switch

Thanks.

billbeemer · February 26, 2018, 03:49:35 PM

now I'm confused. i have no tuner and the switch fixed my reaching and loping. I heard stage one tuner upped idle to 950. this is like voodoo. maybe two different problems?

happyman · February 28, 2018, 04:08:07 PM

Quote from: HV on February 26, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
The main thing is that its fixed.....If it ever stops starting in gear with the clutch in...then you need a switch

doe the position of the kick stand make any difference?

HV · March 01, 2018, 04:10:45 AM

There is no kick stand switch

happyman · March 01, 2018, 08:40:43 AM

Quote from: HV on March 01, 2018, 04:10:45 AM
There is no kick stand switch

thanks, seen elsewhere someone made the statement and I never noticed one on my current bike so had to ask.

Jacob1955 · March 04, 2018, 03:08:16 PM

I did the Stage 1 download on my 2017 M8 and now it idle's all the time at around 975-1000 rpm after warm up,it used to fall down to around 750 rpm when hot but that's fine with me makes it feel better on the off idle start.

billbeemer · March 08, 2018, 11:01:59 AM

was at my dealer's today, and thanked my tech for replacing clutch safety switch. I asked what it had to do with the idle loping. he says..."no connection, the update from harley fixed the loping problem". soooooo......case closed!

billbeemer · March 11, 2018, 04:43:35 AM

mystery solved........at about 10k miles, my ECM was replaced trying to solve an intermittent cooling fan problem. Looking back, I noticed the slow loping, reaching idle after that. didn't put it together, since my mind was on solving fan issue. apparently the new ECM didn't have current updates, and performing the update last week completely changed the characteristics of riding the RGU.

billbeemer · March 16, 2018, 01:52:54 PM

just returned from a few days at Daytona. my clutch switch is acting up intermittently again. affects the idle, it lopes and reaches...........dealer tech was full of it. this will be the third problem with that same switch.

HV · March 16, 2018, 05:59:52 PM

Yes the fact that the Tech has no clue why it effects it dosnt change the Fact that it does

Tell them the switch acts up intermittently and almost caused you to have an accident.....and you want it replaced

billbeemer · March 19, 2018, 01:18:39 PM

thanks HV, i told dealer i was afraid for safety and it was acting up in traffic at Daytona, which it was. the bike is in shop, the story is Harley has updated clutch lever and they will replace everything on left side. stay tuned............parts on order. I don't want to ride until I'm reasonably certain it's fixed, it stalls and lopes in slow traffic only which is scary.

HV · March 19, 2018, 03:59:46 PM

billbeemer · March 22, 2018, 02:36:16 PM

bike is home, just pulled in. dealer replaced complete left side unit. apparently their is a bulletin and upgrade on the parts. Tampa Harley treat me like a king...btw, anyone know how I get subscribed to Harley tech bulletins?

HV · March 23, 2018, 08:09:27 AM

Yes the Left hand unit ( Right too for that matter ) are all in one ...you have to replace the whole thing ...they have updated the part a few times.... all tech bulletins are in this section of HTT http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?board=31.0

billbeemer · March 24, 2018, 03:54:56 AM

link didn't work.

HV · March 24, 2018, 04:25:12 PM

Looks like you found the section

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17 RGU 107 loping