Clacking noise when hot

[Robert777]

Hello,
I have a 2000 XLH 1200 Sportster. 9500 miles
I got it July last year. It was sitting 5-6 years.
All fluids Changed, adjusted primary chain and drive belt. Carb cleaned, Air Filter cleaned. Clutch seems to operate normally to me.
I have a clacking noise that occurs ONLY when the engine is hot and ONLY when driving away from a dead stop and getting on the throttle aggressively or a very slow roll and getting on the throttle aggressively. If I get on the throttle slowly the noise does not occur. I tried it in 1st and 2nd gear.  Same noise.
I brought it to the dealer and the response went from "I don't know" to "sounds normal just give it more gas" to "All Evo Motors make that clacking noise".
As this is my first Harley and I am not new to motorcycles, the noise does not sound normal to me.
If it is normal, can someone tell me where this noise is coming from to allay my concerns.
thank you kindly
Robert

[Pete_Vit]

Welcome to HTT, didn't say what year, I'm thinking EVO Sportster, my first guess was lifters then you said 'get on the throttle slowly and no noise'
also can be compensator. that sound you year...nope not normal

[Robert777]

Tough to say since I'm riding it when it happens. seems to be coming from the left side. I did adjust the primary chain (3/8 at the tightest part). It was okay before I check the adjustment. It's very strange that when I brought it to the dealer they should say it's normal. I was told if it was a compensator sprocket it would make the noise all the time not just at the times I indicated.
I was also told that HD had complaints of this nature which indicated a fractured transmission counter-shaft.
Thank you for your help if you have anything to add please let me know
Robert

[Pete_Vit]

forgot to ask how it shifts ?

[Robert777]

It shifts ok.  Better and finding neutral is easier after changing the primary/trans fluid. I put in the HD Fluid.
I was also told that HD had complaints of this nature which indicated a fractured transmission counter-shaft.

[Pete_Vit]

It shifts ok.  Better after changing the primary/trans fluid. I put in the HD Fluid.
I was also told that HD had complaints of this nature which indicated a fractured transmission counter-shaft.

ok - I've not heard of these issues, but that's just me, My wife's Sporty is a 93 and knock on wood no tranny related issues.
hopefully someone else will chime in with some ideas.

[u4hd2]

Two things I would check first is the engine sprocket nut and the c/s sprocket nut.

[Robert777]

What I've been told is if it is the compensator sprocket nut, the noise would be constant. Do you agree?
Also,
Where is the engine sprocket nut located?
Thanks

[Pete_Vit]

What I've been told is if it is the compensator sprocket nut, the noise would be constant. Do you agree?
Also,
Where is the engine sprocket nut located?
Thanks

on the constant sound -  engine sprocket nut - never been into my primary - Service manual is home 

[Hossamania]

Are you sure it's not pinging from pre-detonation of the fuel? What octane fuel are you running?
What happens at 55 mph in 5th gear when you whack the throttle, what happens when you slowly roll the throttle?

[Robert777]

Octane 93
I have not tried octane booster

At 55 it accelerates well when whacking it with No slipping of the clutch.
When accelerating slowly seems normal.
When Backing off no popping

[Julio]

Does sound like detonation, but, you seem to think it's drive related?
At 9500 miles, it seems a bit early, but I'd pull out the clutch pack and inspect the spring plate.
If the rivets that hold it together come loose, and they seem to ~30k miles, it will make a mess.
As long as the clutch pack is out, replace that plate with 2 steels and a fiber.
When I checked them on my two Sporties at ~34k miles, one was loose on the way out, while the other was still tight.
Let us know what you find.

[Hossamania]

Octane 93
I have not tried octane booster

At 55 it accelerates well when wackng it. No slip of clutch.
Acell slowly seems normal.
When Backing off no popping

No need for octane booster, it is really no help.
Hopefully you can get this sorted pretty easily.

[Robert777]

Julio
"Does sound like detonation, but, you seem to think it's drive related?
At 9500 miles, it seems a bit early, but I'd pull out the clutch pack and inspect the spring plate.
If the rivets that hold it together come loose, and they seem to ~30k miles, it will make a mess.
As long as the clutch pack is out, replace that plate with 2 steels and a fiber.
When I checked them on my two Sporties at ~34k miles, one was loose on the way out, while the other was still tight.
Let us know what you find."

Would a bad clutch make the sound when the clutch is engaged? I get the sound when I am coming off the line AND when I get on it from a very slow roll AFTER the clutch is engaged. I would think only during engagement.

What about the intake manifold seals between the head and the intake manifold. Has anyone had experience with them causing a lean condition, hence this noise?
The plugs look normal to me (the insulator is light gray).
thank you

[Hossamania]

If it is a lean condition caused by leaking intake seals, then that would lead back to the noise being detonation.

[Robert777]

If it is a lean condition caused by leaking intake seals, then that would lead back to the noise being detonation.

thank you

i was told that the seals can have micro tears after a few years and need be replaced periodically.

that's the next thing. one thing at a time to find out what is causing the noise.

[hogpipes1]

My 2000xl   which i bought new  sounds like the same noise when hot leaving the light. AZ spring weather gets hot  i use octane booster with the cheap gas and no issues with noise. (detonation) 35k  so if it have a bad counter shaft it hasen't showed up yet . also it never came with comp sprocket, sure you have one on yours ? Ckeck your  timing.

[Panzer]

This is like throwing darts at a bullseye, hit and miss.
Carb cleaner or water spray around intake seals will determine leaks if engine falters.
Don't discount hissing or ticking (like said) from exhaust seals.
Again, a shot in the dark. 

[u4hd2]

It doesn't have a compensator but if the nut is loose (front sprocket in the primary) the timkin
bearing is loose (no preload)

[Robert777]

It doesn't have a compensator but if the nut is loose (front sprocket in the primary) the timkin
bearing is loose (no preload)

thank you
would the nut being loose result in a constant noise; not just at take off?
Do you know what the torque needs to be for that nut if I go into the primary?

[u4hd2]

Depends on how loose it is.  Torque is 190-210

[hogpipes1]

My noise is up front under the tank , ( heads)only when hot at the light sitting and lots of traffic backed up. Next light it's cooled down . short light , take off ok and i don't pound it  off the line . keep that up and you will find your  issue  real quick. Did the dealer test ride when hot? If not get someone with exp that does  before you waste alot of time and $$$.   I'd try some 104 hot shot  octane boost one more time to rule out the pinging  rattle .  cheap fix.

[Robert777]

My noise is up front under the tank , ( heads)only when hot at the light sitting and lots of traffic backed up. Next light it's cooled down . short light , take off ok and i don't pound it  off the line . keep that up and you will find your  issue  real quick. Did the dealer test ride when hot? If not get someone with exp that does  before you waste alot of time and $$$.   I'd try some 104 hot shot  octane boost one more time to rule out the pinging  rattle .  cheap fix.

thanks
The dealer did listen to and rode it
Three guys
First two didn't know
Third came out and after I asked him to take it around the lot came back and said its normal.
That I should give it more gas. Maybe he meant to give it more gas before getting on it? Don't know
Weird
I would like to know where the noise is coming from. I rode other HDs and didn't hear this noise.

thanks again to all

[hogpipes1]

They heard the noise?  Give it more gas  means ,as you take off slip the clutch alittle more and keeps the revs up a bit.Doesn't sound like you have a serious problem, just  get use the bike.

[Robert777]

They heard the noise?  Give it more gas  means ,as you take off slip the clutch alittle more and keeps the revs up a bit.Doesn't sound like you have a serious problem, just  get use the bike.

yeah
maybe
my first bike was a 1968 Triumph Bonneville, so I'm used to mechanical noise, but this is weird.
slipping the clutch never sounded like a good practice to me.
the noise is loud.
i will keep you all informed. just snowed half a foot here now, so not riding anywhere.
please feel free to chime in.
thank you

[Hossamania]

My '12 Ultra will clack if I let the clutch out too quickly without enough revs and clutch slip. More than I am used to from my other bike. These clutches will take a little bit of slipping without cooking them. I think they're made to take it with all the plates and discs in it.

[hogpipes1]

They heard the noise?  Give it more gas  means ,as you take off slip the clutch alittle more and keeps the revs up a bit.Doesn't sound like you have a serious problem, just  get use the bike.

yeah
maybe
my first bike was a 1968 Triumph Bonneville, so I'm used to mechanical noise, but this is weird.
slipping the clutch never sounded like a good practice to me.
the noise is loud.
i will keep you all informed. just snowed half a foot here now, so not riding anywhere.
please feel free to chime in.
thank you

Every time you take off you slip the clutch, that's how they work. Doing  it  right, off the line should be as smooth as shifting  between the the gears . No jerking ,if you could switch with someone with a sporty 5 speed up threw 03  that would work for piece of mind . Did you go threw all the bolts /nuts  if they are tight ,?  eng mounts , muffs ,  etc .what about the last owner with any information. What ever it is sporties are the easy one's to  work on.

[Robert777]

They heard the noise?  Give it more gas  means ,as you take off slip the clutch alittle more and keeps the revs up a bit.Doesn't sound like you have a serious problem, just  get use the bike.

yeah
maybe
my first bike was a 1968 Triumph Bonneville, so I'm used to mechanical noise, but this is weird.
slipping the clutch never sounded like a good practice to me.
the noise is loud.
i will keep you all informed. just snowed half a foot here now, so not riding anywhere.
please feel free to chime in.
thank you

Every time you take off you slip the clutch, that's how they work. Doing  it  right, off the line should be as smooth as shifting  between the the gears . No jerking ,if you could switch with someone with a sporty 5 speed up threw 03  that would work for piece of mind . Did you go threw all the bolts /nuts  if they are tight ,?  eng mounts , muffs ,  etc .what about the last owner with any information. What ever it is sporties are the easy one's to  work on.

I agree.
I did not go through all the bolts yet.
The Exhaust manifold bolts and a few others needed a retorque. Is there a quick list of all the torque measurements available rather than to go through the service manual?
This could be a lean condition because of epa regs.
In regards to detonation or pre-ignition, do you know if changing the spark plug gap would make any difference? I read a comment to a youtube video with a similar noise complaint and the comment was to go to .030"-.032" rather than .038"- .043"
thanks

[Hossamania]

New plugs probably wouldn't hurt, I set mine at .035.
Right now, it's a matter of identifying the noise, through different riding techniques, talking to some others, letting them hear it next to you while riding.
Going thru and checking  critical and known problem fasteners is also a good idea.

[Hossamania]

As far as torque values, if you go to the Documents and FAQs section, go to Torque Values thread, the listing goes back to 2008, but may help with many of your fasteners.
The service manual is really the way to get all the proper specs, as some have probably changed between 2000 and 2008.

[hogpipes1]

They heard the noise?  Give it more gas  means ,as you take off slip the clutch alittle more and keeps the revs up a bit.Doesn't sound like you have a serious problem, just  get use the bike.

yeah
maybe
my first bike was a 1968 Triumph Bonneville, so I'm used to mechanical noise, but this is weird.
slipping the clutch never sounded like a good practice to me.
the noise is loud.
i will keep you all informed. just snowed half a foot here now, so not riding anywhere.
please feel free to chime in.
thank you

Every time you take off you slip the clutch, that's how they work. Doing  it  right, off the line should be as smooth as shifting  between the the gears . No jerking ,if you could switch with someone with a sporty 5 speed up threw 03  that would work for piece of mind . Did you go threw all the bolts /nuts  if they are tight ,?  eng mounts , muffs ,  etc .what about the last owner with any information. What ever it is sporties are the easy one's to  work on.

I agree.
I did not go through all the bolts yet.
The Exhaust manifold bolts and a few others needed a retorque. Is there a quick list of all the torque measurements available rather than to go through the service manual?
This could be a lean condition because of epa regs.
In regards to detonation or pre-ignition, do you know if changing the spark plug gap would make any difference? I read a comment to a youtube video with a similar noise complaint and the comment was to go to .030"-.032" rather than .038"- .043"
thanks

Give the plug gap a try --champ #RA8HC   HARLEY  6R12,  AUTOLITE #4164.

[coolbreeze3646]

You made a profound statement in one of your earlier posts: "I did adjust the primary chain (3/8 at the tightest part). It was okay before I check the adjustment."  I would go back in and check that.  If it was working correctly prior to you being in there and adjusting stuff, you may want to revisit the process and have someone else check the adjustment.  Do you have a Harley service manual?  Just my thoughts, go back to what you did and when the problem started. 

[Robert777]

You made a profound statement in one of your earlier posts: "I did adjust the primary chain (3/8 at the tightest part). It was okay before I check the adjustment."  I would go back in and check that.  If it was working correctly prior to you being in there and adjusting stuff, you may want to revisit the process and have someone else check the adjustment.  Do you have a Harley service manual?  Just my thoughts, go back to what you did and when the problem started.

thank you I will recheck it.

I did notice the noise BEFORE I checked the adjustment as per the Service Manual (which I do have). The "it" i was referring to was the adjustment. I apologize for not making that clear. [I do wish they had made a complete list of all the torque values in one section of the book. It would have made the book so much easier to use and the service process MUCH quicker.]
Since it was sitting for so long, when I got the bike in July, I did the oil change after I ran the motor about 15 miles to get it hot and installed Valvoline 20w-50 4 Stroke Mcy Oil. Thereafter, I noticed the noise and after about 400 miles I withdrew 12oz and replaced the same amount with Lucas (non syn) oil Stabilizer to see if it was a viscosity issue with the Valvoline Oil. Not much difference.

Thank you again

[Pete_Vit]

This is like throwing darts at a bullseye, hit and miss.
Carb cleaner or water spray around intake seals will determine leaks if engine falters.
Don't discount hissing or ticking (like said) from exhaust seals.
Again, a shot in the dark. 

  also I'm not sure about 2000's but my 93 does not like heat, I recall a couple of years at Rolling Thunder in DC, in traffic, I thought my engine was coming apart 

[Robert777]

This is like throwing darts at a bullseye, hit and miss.
Carb cleaner or water spray around intake seals will determine leaks if engine falters.
Don't discount hissing or ticking (like said) from exhaust seals.
Again, a shot in the dark. 

  also I'm not sure about 2000's but my 93 does not like heat, I recall a couple of years at Rolling Thunder in DC, in traffic, I thought my engine was coming apart 

and on that note, has anyone had a good result with synthetic oil?
brand?
additives?
oil cooler?

[Pete_Vit]

This is like throwing darts at a bullseye, hit and miss.
Carb cleaner or water spray around intake seals will determine leaks if engine falters.
Don't discount hissing or ticking (like said) from exhaust seals.
Again, a shot in the dark. 

  also I'm not sure about 2000's but my 93 does not like heat, I recall a couple of years at Rolling Thunder in DC, in traffic, I thought my engine was coming apart 

and on that note, has anyone had a good result with synthetic oil?
brand?
additives?
oil cooler?

oh boy  you asked for it 
I myself like Mobile I ...   

[Robert777]

This is like throwing darts at a bullseye, hit and miss.
Carb cleaner or water spray around intake seals will determine leaks if engine falters.
Don't discount hissing or ticking (like said) from exhaust seals.
Again, a shot in the dark. 

  also I'm not sure about 2000's but my 93 does not like heat, I recall a couple of years at Rolling Thunder in DC, in traffic, I thought my engine was coming apart 

and on that note, has anyone had a good result with synthetic oil?
brand?
additives?
oil cooler?

oh boy  you asked for it 
I myself like Mobile I ...   

LOL...

I know, right?

"Double, double toil and trouble,
Fire burn and cauldron bubble."
From Macbeth

Was Mobil 1 an improvement in any way?

[Hossamania]

Any good synthetic will be an improvement over regular oil. Some seem more noisy than others. I find Amsoil a little noisy. Liqui-Moly has been talked about extensively here. I run Valvoline 20/50, it's cheap and works well enough for me.

[hogpipes1]

Hello,
I have a 2000 XLH 1200 Sportster. 9500 miles
I got it July last year. It was sitting 5-6 years.
All fluids Changed, adjusted primary chain and drive belt. Carb cleaned, Air Filter cleaned. Clutch seems to operate normally to me.
I have a clacking noise that occurs ONLY when the engine is hot and ONLY when driving away from a dead stop and getting on the throttle aggressively or a very slow roll and getting on the throttle aggressively. If I get on the throttle slowly the noise does not occur. I tried it in 1st and 2nd gear.  Same noise.
I brought it to the dealer and the response went from "I don't know" to "sounds normal just give it more gas" to "All Evo Motors make that clacking noise".
As this is my first Harley and I am not new to motorcycles, the noise does not sound normal to me.
If it is normal, can someone tell me where this noise is coming from to allay my concerns.
thank you kindly
Robert
[/quote

With a hot motor  , as you say" If i get on the throttle SLOWLY the noise does NOT occur"]  Well i guess that's the  answer  and the way to do it off the line. Sure would work for me .. Oil cooler  won't hurt  for summer  but not really needed on a xl.. just keep the bike moving in the air.  I have one on  my winter  xl bike,  as AZ  temps hit 95 -100*  in april before i  leave for the summer.   Any 20 -50 syn  will do you good . Most all issues won't get a finger pointed at a  good clean oil. Good luck with your new ride.

[koko3052]

Robert, your inbox is full.

[Robert777]

thanks
I just figured out how to delete the inbox (new to this great site)