Primary Chains - the Good, the Bad, and the Broken

[Ohio HD]

So not to detract too far from Ed's post on his unfortunate circumstances of primary housing carnage,  I thought that I would start a primary chain thread. Essentially Big Twin bikes, as this is the most popular engine and platform out there at this time. But other bikes that have had primary chain issues are welcome for discussion.

Below are the Twin Cam primary chain sizes
428-2 x 76 - 99-06 FLT/ FXR/ FXRS/ FXRT
428-2 x 82 - 99-06 Big Twin, 00-06 FXST/ FLST and 99-05 Dyna
428-2 x 86 - 07-18 Touring
428-2 x 92 - 06-17 Dyna, 07-17 Softail

What I'd like to see posted is guys that have broken the chain, and under what circumstances, and was the chain believed to be the root cause of it's own damage, and any other damage. Or what there another failure that took the primary chain with it. I know in some cases who knows, too much damage to know what let go first. What was the method of chain tension, manual or automatic, what were the circumstances of riding, IE: racing, cruising along, etc.

Just for the heck of it, I reached out to Evolution Industries to ask them about primary chains, their take on them. What I was told was that they use both Regina (OEM made in Italy) and Diamond (used to be OEM and made in USA). I asked him if there was a preference between them based on strength? He said and I quote "Regina is just as good as the diamond. Diamond are American made so they cost more." I realize this is one guys opinion, and I'm not saying he's wrong or right, just this was his opinion, neither right or wrong. The info quest needs to start somewhere, so I asked them.

I've personally run a lot of both over the years, OEM Regina and OEM / Aftermarket Diamond, and have not broken one yet, but then I don't drag race, nor do I do big burnouts. I do run the motors hard, and shift hard under power.

Years ago when I was in the motorcycle business, I used and sold primarily (pun intended) Diamond and Tsubaki. Tsubaki was used on two of my bikes, a 98" Shovel and a 98" Evo. They cost more, and very few guys really wanted or needed to spend more. Tsubaki was however touted as being the stronger chain. So this took me on a short quest to see if Tsubaki was still available as a Harley primary chain. The short amount I looked only unearthed a few European sites that had them listed for the older 4 speed bikes. Tsubaki also does not show them on their web site. So I sent an email to them and am now waiting to hear back, to see if they still do supply them, or can they.

So what are your bad experiences, and how did it break? Do you know of any other primary chain out there?

[No Cents]

    Brian...I know TR (Tman) had a primary chain failure on his procharged bike. It was a like a 200 hp bike.
It might be worth making a phone call to him to see what he exactly found out...and what chain he is running now. My guess is he researched the hell out of primary chains after his failure happened.

[Ohio HD]

Actually I just found a site in Europe that show an 86 link Tsubaki for a late model TC six speed. Interesting, so they have or do make them for later models. Exchange price would be about $92.00 US.


Zodiac Catalog Primary Drive Chain

[Ohio HD]

    Brian...I know TR (Tman) had a primary chain failure on his procharged bike. It was a like a 200 hp bike.
It might be worth making a phone call to him to see what he exactly found out...and what chain he is running now. My guess is he researched the hell out of primary chains after his failure happened.

I wonder if he did use any alternative. I know Jim is right around the 180 HP area, and a far as I know he's running a stock chain. He did crack his clutch basket last summer, and now has a Barnett (Evo Ind.) basket on his OEM ring gear.

[ecir50]

428-2 x 76  drag specialties says made in Italy, probably a Regina?

[Ohio HD]

428-2 x 76  drag specialties says made in Italy, probably a Regina?

Yes, they are to my knowledge.

[Ohio HD]

This is what they told me at Tsubaki just a minute ago. They no longer are in the motorcycle chain business. Explains why I haven't seen them for a awhile.

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your inquiry.
Tsubaki no longer manufactures motorcycle chains.

LuAnn

[No Cents]

  I know the fix...so kick me for saying it out loud. 
Just do a Bandit belt drive primary...and all the primary side issues will go away. But damn they are expensive.

[Hybredhog]

  I know the fix...so kick me for saying it out loud. 
Just do a Bandit belt drive primary...and all the primary side issues will go away. But damn they are expensive.

    A 3 inch belt is not a viable option for most people or any stock style primary. Belt systems that do fit into a stock primary, AKA 1.5" wouldn't stand a chance against 200hp, so chains are the only viable option until they come out with some carbon fiber or whatever alternative. As for a chain breaking under such loads, I'd still say its the exception, rather than the rule, and if people are going to play in that arena, they'll have to pay the piper. I would say that a tension system built for such bikes would go a long ways in prevention of failures, and a shock absorbing type "like" a M6 would help. Even better would be a full gear drive system.

[Ohio HD]

  I know the fix...so kick me for saying it out loud. 
Just do a Bandit belt drive primary...and all the primary side issues will go away. But damn they are expensive.

    A 3 inch belt is not a viable option for most people or any stock style primary. Belt systems that do fit into a stock primary, AKA 1.5" wouldn't stand a chance against 200hp, so chains are the only viable option until they come out with some carbon fiber or whatever alternative. As for a chain breaking under such loads, I'd still say its the exception, rather than the rule, and if people are going to play in that arena, they'll have to pay the piper. I would say that a tension system built for such bikes would go a long ways in prevention of failures, and a shock absorbing type "like" a M6 would help. Even better would be a full gear drive system.

And I agree, most and that probably includes me will not ever have that issue to deal with, the chain breaking, but one never knows until it happens. This is just an exercise to understand the cause, and is there a chain alternative that is stronger, given the same link sizes.
 

[04 SE Deuce]

Not to hijack but I have a few NOS OEM Diamond 40007-36 chains from the 70's.  I wonder how they compare to current stuff?  Seemed to me like they stretched more under less power back then. 

[Ohio HD]

I don't know Rick, they may have been designed around the 55HP the old girls had back in the day. In any case, breaking them is definitely feeding them more than they are designed for. Speaking of that, Diamond just responded to me. And by the way, I really like companies that respond in a timely manor when you contact them.

Where he makes reference to a chain link, he either isn't real familiar with the HD primary chain, or he is very familiar with them, and remembers way back when you could buy them that way. I think for the 45's, maybe others too.

No stronger available from Diamond.


Brian,

Thank you for your interest in The Diamond Chain Company.

You are correct, Diamond used to be the OEM for Harley. Unfortunately, there is not a "heavier" duty chain option that is available for that specific chain size. Your best bet to obtain the most strength and integrity would be to make sure your chain is riveted endless, without a connecting link. Standard Connecting Links reduce the chain by about 1/3.


Thank you again,


Kevin Welsh
Product Design Engineer
The Diamond Chain Company

[Jonny Cash]

My OE chain failed last year.  It happened on the 1-2 shift @ the track.  It took out my inner, and my Evo basket, from the basket grinding against broken chain.  I went back with the Diamond, it lasted for 11 passes and a couple hundred street miles. It stretched incredibly, to the point I didn't trust it, it would stand up on its own.  I went back with another OE chain and it is holding up well, although when it went in I did change to a solid front sprocket.   I ordered an RK chain to keep as a spare for the track, Drag carries it.  I now check mine after every weekend of track time.  My OE chain had 35k miles on it, and it is abused regularly, I accept as  a cost of racing a heavy bike with a heavy rider.  Pic of the diamond chain when I took it out

[Ohio HD]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

[Jonny Cash]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=477463

[Ohio HD]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=477463

Thanks Kelly, I may have to give one a try. I'm going back to 46 tooth clutch basket gearing on my 124, and that would be a good time to try one. I have an RK going on the rear when the swingarm gets here. And I've used RK -rings chains in the past and never had issues, so I do like the brand.

[Jonny Cash]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=477463

Thanks Kelly, I may have to give one a try. I'm going back to 46 tooth clutch basket gearing on my 124, and that would be a good time to try one. I have an RK going on the rear when the swingarm gets here. And I've used RK -rings chains in the past and never had issues, so I do like the brand.

I'm running their drag rear chain, its a bear, does not stretch, that's why I'm giving it a try. I used to run a DID ZVMX, best Oring chain out there in my opinion.  When I went to a 180 rear tire it wouldn't clear.  The non O ring chain does have much less drag.

[Ohio HD]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=477463

Thanks Kelly, I may have to give one a try. I'm going back to 46 tooth clutch basket gearing on my 124, and that would be a good time to try one. I have an RK going on the rear when the swingarm gets here. And I've used RK -rings chains in the past and never had issues, so I do like the brand.

I'm running their drag rear chain, its a bear, does not stretch, that's why I'm giving it a try. I used to run a DID ZVMX, best Oring chain out there in my opinion.  When I went to a 180 rear tire it wouldn't clear.  The non O ring chain does have much less drag.

That sounds very encouraging.

I just ordered a 1120-0340 to give it a whirl.

[jam65]

While on the subject, is it possible to drop a link off of a primary chain?

[Ohio HD]

I don't have an experienced answer for that. But I would imagine if you can get a 'new' uncrimped link for the chain, to reassemble it, it could be done.

[kd]

1 link is a large change (2 rollers). Half links are a lesser evil. I used to find the half link was the most useful.

[Thermodyne]

I use some 74 pitch chains on FXR's and older baggers.  And the last two that I bought said made in Italia on them.  It's nothing special, just double strand chain. 

With that said.  When I did my own, I just took the chain to the roller chain supplier and they cut it down.  It was way cheaper than buying a new one, $18. 

[koko3052]

I use some 74 pitch chains on FXR's and older baggers.  And the last two that I bought said made in Italia on them.  It's nothing special, just double strand chain. 

With that said.  When I did my own, I just took the chain to the roller chain supplier and they cut it down.  It was way cheaper than buying a new one, $18.

And how were the ends fastened together?

[N-gin]

I actually did think to call RK right after lunch, that's when they open being out west. The guy was pretty helpful, but told me they show nothing about a primary chain application for HD's. He did say that it was possible someone was importing them direct from RK, and they don't go through RM Excel America. Now that you mention Drag Specialties, they're probably big enough to do that, get them direct.

Would you happen to have the Drag Specialty or RK number from the box?

http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=477463

I may have missed this, but just to clarify The link in the tread is for the 35 series chains, correct? And the 428 is?

[turboprop]

Anyone ever heard of Duckworth brand primary chains?

I was going through my inventory of primary chains yesterday and was surprised to see Duckworth 0515 USA stamped on the side of three of them. The chains are all in very good/excellent condition and had come from later model 5-speed baggers. Not sure when harley changed their source of supply to Regina but it had to have been sometime after '98 as everyone one of these chains came with a '98 and up clutch that I purchased.

A quick google search shows the company shut down a few years ago.