Primary Chains - the Good, the Bad, and the Broken

[klammer76]

Anyone ever heard of Duckworth brand primary chains?

I was going through my inventory of primary chains yesterday and was surprised to see Duckworth 0515 USA stamped on the side of three of them. The chains are all in very good/excellent condition and had come from later model 5-speed baggers. Not sure when harley changed their source of supply to Regina but it had to have been sometime after '98 as everyone one of these chains came with a '98 and up clutch that I purchased.

A quick google search shows the company shut down a few years ago.

I do recall Duckworth. Can't remember if from my Shovelhead days or early FXR's around the early 1980's?

[Ohio HD]

I've heard of the brand, I have glimses of seeing it in a Panhead manual. I'll look later.

[Buglet]

   Back in the day harley used duckworth for the primary and the rear chain you were able to order a duckworth on a diamond, each had there own part #.

[Ohio HD]

Here's a reference to them '36 to '64 Panhead in the Tedd's book.

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[turboprop]

Well I have three of them that came out of '98 and newer 5-speed baggers. Surprised that I cannot find any reference to how they perform, good or bad. I would have thought with all of the harley forums, and depth of minutia that members will dive into that there would have been more chatter. I guess no news is good news when it comes to primary chains.

[Ohio HD]

Yeah my memory to the name was a long time ago, from a service manual. When I was into working on bikes everyday, through the 90's Diamond was mostly what we used for replacement. Duckworth must have been the original to when ever OEM for HD.

[Ohio HD]

I'm sure I remember seeing the name on the chain it's self, but one doesn't generally remember small details like this well, at least I don't.




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[turboprop]

It looks like a pretty good chain. They wont be going into any of my 124" FXRs but if my bagger needed a new chain, I would not hesitate to put one of these in. Heck, these might be the best primary chain ever.

I wonder why Duckworth closed. Was it like what happened to Cycle Shack exhaust pipes where harley changed manufacturers to reduce costs and ultimately caused CS to go out of business or maybe something internal at Duckworth and harley had to find another source?

[Ohio HD]

My honest guess would be more competition from imported sources. I would bet that most chain manufactures, at least in the past makes their money on industries applications. Farm equipment, factory equipment, etc. More and more pneumatic and hydraulics, as well as liner drive is used in newer factory equipment. The more simple things, and heavier applications still use chains. We went away from them and use poly belts, faster, quieter, and need next to no maintenance.

[PoorUB]

Turbo, that might be. A vendor puts darned near all thier eggs in one basket, manufacturing parts for one company. The manufacturer changes vendors and they can not down size financially and pull the plug. It happens fairly often.

I read an article about a supplier for Walmart. Walmart dropped them and they had a huge investment in inventory to meet the demand that just stopped instantly. Next stop, bankruptcy.

[turboprop]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

[Jonny Cash]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

That's good stuff.  I had to borrow a chain last year to make a race, it was a Duckworth, came out of a 93 FXR.  maybe it had been replaced at some point

[SixShooter14]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

what's the standard inspection method for used primary chains? Typically we measure roller chains for a certain amount of stretch as a percentage of spec length. Say 3%, so a 5000mm chain is allowed to reach 5150mm before replacement.

Is there a standard stretch limit for P-chains? And is it a pretty good indicator of life remaining on a used chain? 

[Ohio HD]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

what's the standard inspection method for used primary chains? Typically we measure roller chains for a certain amount of stretch as a percentage of spec length. Say 3%, so a 5000mm chain is allowed to reach 5150mm before replacement.

Is there a standard stretch limit for P-chains? And is it a pretty good indicator of life remaining on a used chain? 

That would be a question for the manufacturer of the chain. HD uses an adjustment, I've never seen any spec on stretch in a service manual.

[SixShooter14]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

what's the standard inspection method for used primary chains? Typically we measure roller chains for a certain amount of stretch as a percentage of spec length. Say 3%, so a 5000mm chain is allowed to reach 5150mm before replacement.

Is there a standard stretch limit for P-chains? And is it a pretty good indicator of life remaining on a used chain? 

That would be a question for the manufacturer of the chain. HD uses an adjustment, I've never seen any spec on stretch in a service manual.

According to Regina:
http://www.reginachain.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/03_Maintenance.pdf#page=3

[Ohio HD]

So, now I cant help but think my Duckworth primary chains are worth more now than they were last week. If Harley dropped them to save money, it stands to reason that these chains could be of higher quality that the current harley (Regina) chain, that some have reported (but not quantified) as being superior to the aftermarket offerings from Diamond and others. Just thinking out loud here, but I may have just saved myself about $75 on a new chain.

what's the standard inspection method for used primary chains? Typically we measure roller chains for a certain amount of stretch as a percentage of spec length. Say 3%, so a 5000mm chain is allowed to reach 5150mm before replacement.

Is there a standard stretch limit for P-chains? And is it a pretty good indicator of life remaining on a used chain? 

That would be a question for the manufacturer of the chain. HD uses an adjustment, I've never seen any spec on stretch in a service manual.

According to Regina:
http://www.reginachain.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/03_Maintenance.pdf#page=3

I'm not going to read through all of that, I'll take their word. But I imagine that there is a difference depending on the chains actual size and type as to what is safe, as well as the application it's being used in. As well they were referring to a single row chain used on the rear wheel. Does the double or triple row primary chains work under the same specs? I don't know.

[Hybredhog]

  Back in the day... I mean Shovelheads & FXR's, Duckworth were very common. As my personal observations go, Duckworth stretched less than a Diamond, and didn't split rollers like I seen a lot of diamonds do. I still run into quite a few, and for older Evos they're very stable adjustment wise, and settle in well. That being said, on & in about the early 90's HD started using diamonds, and it became very obvious(especially on softails), that they were stretching at a more rapid rate, & maxing out the adjuster ramp. In recent years I've had good luck with Drag's house brand, but I don't have one in stock right now to see where it came from, But Regina comes to mind.

[Ohio HD]

My understanding is also that Diamond has in the past, and maybe now also supplied chains with a split roller, and some with a solid roller. I looked at the chain I received from Evo Industries when I put that chain and basket in my bike. It's a solid roller chain. I have not personally seen a split roller chain in an HD. But have been told there have been some.

[turboprop]

My understanding is also that Diamond has in the past, and maybe now also supplied chains with a split roller, and some with a solid roller. I looked at the chain I received from Evo Industries when I put that chain and basket in my bike. It's a solid roller chain. I have not personally seen a split roller chain in an HD. But have been told there have been some.

FWIW - The Duckworth chains that I have are all solid roller type.

[Hybredhog]

    Sorry, I need to clarify, when I said "split roller", I meant that the rollers would split in half broken. I don't think you'll see any chain of Quality with non-solid rollers, but in cheapo's & smaller sizes they're around.

[Ohio HD]

I see what you mean. But I have heard that there have been some made this way, but not that I ever saw. It would be scary to think they an change shape while running. 

[04 SE Deuce]

Harley used both Diamond and Duckworth in the 70's.  I really don't remember a preference on the big twin primary chains but in rear drive chains Diamond seemed to be a better chain...this is in reference to the OEM Harley chain/part not aftermarket chain which often was not as quality.

[Thermodyne]

I use some 74 pitch chains on FXR's and older baggers.  And the last two that I bought said made in Italia on them.  It's nothing special, just double strand chain. 

With that said.  When I did my own, I just took the chain to the roller chain supplier and they cut it down.  It was way cheaper than buying a new one, $18.

And how were the ends fastened together?

The tech cut the heads off two pins, pressed them out and removed two links, then replaced the pin and expanded the ends of the pin. He just used a pin that was the correct diameter and cut it to the length he needed.  It was prolly 8 inches to start with.  They could have done it with a pin that used little cotter pins, but I didn't want that.  The chain size is not something they work with much, but the tandem links aren't uncommon.  Evidently they are used in industrial equipment and pump couplings.     

[jam65]

The reason I asked about the removal of a link was because of my primary gearing. With the Baker chain adjuster,my primary chain is almost maxed out to the top of adjustment. I would like a straighter snake of the chain for better efficiency and adjustability.

[turboprop]

The reason I asked about the removal of a link was because of my primary gearing. With the Baker chain adjuster,my primary chain is almost maxed out to the top of adjustment. I would like a straighter snake of the chain for better efficiency and adjustability.

Would be easier to simply go up a tooth (or two) inside the primary and make whatever adjustment in the secondary drive ratio to compensate.