SCREAMIN EAGLE ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARM KITS

[FSG]

anyone tried these ?

J06478  SCREAMIN EAGLE ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARM KITS,  17300069, 17300070   

[Ohio HD]

No, but I'd like to see their instructions for that. I guess adjust the ridged arm by the pushrod, and then try to match that adjustment with the adjustable arm.

[FSG]

I should have said "anyone seen these ?" 

[Nastytls]

What is the purpose of those? Seems like something to buy "just because".

[rbabos]

Yamaha uses the same setup. You set both valves, be it hydro preload or solids clearanced with the one adjuster. Simple as dirt.  Is it needed with hydros, not really but opens up manufacturing tolerances which can be adjusted to make up for differences. Valve protrusions, rocker pad wear between valves and such. Would I spend the money for those, hell no.
Ron

[Moparnut72]

I haven't done too much work on harleys yet and no engine work at all, so I may not know what I am talking about. But wouldn't these eliminate the need for adjustable push rods when changing cams? Unless there is a major change in the amount of lift.   edit: Disregard, didn't realize this was for the M8's. Good idea for the unadjustable 2nd valve.
kk

[1FSTRK]

So much for the valves are matched at the factory and need no individual adjustment. We had a thread on this when the engine was released, they have to run quieter with the same lash on both valves.

Jim Fueling used adjusters on his 4 valve rockers and they worked great.

And here is what Mr Sachs had to say back on 10/16

I believe there will be adjustable rockers relatively soon.
From what I understand, if the heads come off for repair, the MoCo has a measure and grind process to equal the installed heights of the pair of valves in that cylinder.
I should have info on the depth of valve stem hardness in the next weeks.
John

[Hossamania]

So much for the valves are matched at the factory and need no individual adjustment. We had a thread on this when the engine was released, they have to run quieter with the same lash on both valves.

Jim Fueling used adjusters on his 4 valve rockers and they worked great.

My thought exactly. No need for adjustable rockers. Oh wait, they really do work, but you don't need them, but we have them if you need them, but you don't need them, but....

[rbabos]

So much for the valves are matched at the factory and need no individual adjustment. We had a thread on this when the engine was released, they have to run quieter with the same lash on both valves.

Jim Fueling used adjusters on his 4 valve rockers and they worked great.

With hydros the goal is to have 0 lash. I suspect the new tolerance between one valve and the other for rocker pad clearance is in the .000 - .005 range for the M8 and likely a max of .008 wear limit at which point it makes some noise . I'm guessing at actual values but only one valve will have 0 lash after lifter bleed down from the set pushrod preload. Sometimes wear can make them both 0 and even changes sides for clearance over time. The main benefit of having one adjuster is being able to set both at 0 lash. It however doesn't last because two valves don't wear the same rate. Nope, not even the v rod.  The master valve that exerts the most pressure (highest valve protrusion) on the rocker pad is the one that sets the hydraulic lifter preload and 0 lash on that valve and the other valve will have a hair clearance or if lucky 0. Beauty of this setup (hydralic only) is neither valve can be held open and burnt but the down side is worst case excess clearance could happen between rocker pads and it will be noisy. In that case the one adjuster is capable of bringing the clearances back to 0 lash between valves, where as in the M8, valve seat to tip work to bring them back to spec.
Ron

[1FSTRK]

All that is true on paper but this is HD and they have had reported issues of some bikes being more noisy right from the factory. We covered this back in 16 and it came back up last spring with some posts so needed or not we have these SE rockers which make excessive lash serviceable without removing the head.

Original thread
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=94266.msg1090315#msg1090315

[rbabos]

All that is true on paper but this is HD and they have had reported issues of some bikes being more noisy right from the factory. We covered this back in 16 and it came back up last spring with some posts so needed or not we have these SE rockers which make excessive lash serviceable without removing the head.

Original thread
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=94266.msg1090315#msg1090315

Yes but you are talking HD QC. Right in there with their extensive testing before hitting the market. Trans, perfect example.  True, these adjustable rockers would cure that but by the time warranty was done most were already fixed anyway. Had they adhered to their own specs it would never have been an issue in the first place.
Ron

[kd]

These are called "Screamin Eagle" adjustable rockers to get a better dollar for them. Are they needed? Likely.  We all remember how the SE comp was a special item but in all actuality the old comp went out of production and the $$$ SE offering was the only option. $$$$

[rbabos]

These are called "Screamin Eagle" adjustable rockers to get a better dollar for them. Are they needed? Likely.  We all remember how the SE comp was a special item but in all actuality the old comp went out of production and the $$$ SE offering was the only option. $$$$

Then the name SE was dropped and it became a standard production item. This might happen with the rockers down the road if some bean counter figures out it's cheaper to do then to keep the production valves/ rocker interface within spec. Hell if .012 is good for a crank, why bust balls holding .005 on the valve tips? Sloppier tolerance and just adjust later with the rocker adjuster.
Ron

[kd]

.... and all of those after $ales and $ervice work on the ones that didn't have them without calling a recall. 

[1FSTRK]

I think you will see these sold as an upgrade when a customer has a noisy warranty bike. My bet is they are getting far more valve train noise variance than anticipated. When half of the valves do not get the advantage of being held at .002-.008 for 20 or so degrees on closing before being set on the seat those valves will make noise. There manual states the only fix was to remove the head and adjust the stem protrusion so now we can sell an upgrade performance part and at the same time adjust out the noise. Or maybe not what do i know, personally I like them and think they should have been there from the beginning.

[rbabos]

I think you will see these sold as an upgrade when a customer has a noisy warranty bike. My bet is they are getting far more valve train noise variance than anticipated. When half of the valves do not get the advantage of being held at .002-.008 for 20 or so degrees on closing before being set on the seat those valves will make noise. There manual states the only fix was to remove the head and adjust the stem protrusion so now we can sell an upgrade performance part and at the same time adjust out the noise. Or maybe not what do i know, personally I like them and think they should have been there from the beginning.

I also suspect these or a version of adjustable rockers will end up as a production item. All part of the evolution or improvement of the M8 over time. Yamaha, as an example started with them as a means of it being a tech/owner adjustment if things got noisy and a way to set them from new if tolerances were a bit off. Beats yanking the heads and doing it the hard way, which is what the M8 is at the moment if they are or become noisy in the valve train. Most however,  will be just fine for the life of the engine as is.
Ron

[BVHOG]

All I can say is what the hell took so long?  These are a great idea and should have been done from the get go on all production bikes.

[Fat11Lo]

what do i know, personally I like them and think they should have been there from the beginning.

All I can say is what the hell took so long?  These are a great idea and should have been done from the get go on all production bikes.

2 stroke Detroits had a valve bridge similar to this (one valve fixed and the other adjustable) on 4 valve heads, it was a lot easier to adjust the bridge than it was to get stem height equal

[N-gin]

Harley has no QC so they thought of this to cure any Rocker arm inconsistencies.
LOL

[HD/Wrench]

No, but I'd like to see their instructions for that. I guess adjust the ridged arm by the pushrod, and then try to match that adjustment with the adjustable arm.

it is in the link there if you click on it ..

Set piston at approximate BDC on the power stroke.   
2.   Install new rocker arms per the service manual.

While holding fixed arm (3) against valve, rotate lash adjuster screw (1) until clearance is removed.   
3.   Hold lash adjuster screw. Tighten lash adjuster nut.
Torque: 10.2–13.6 N·m (90–120 in-lbs)   
4.   Repeat with remaining rocker arm.   

[BVHOG]

Harley has no QC so they thought of this to cure any Rocker arm inconsistencies.
LOL

Was wondering that myself so I checked a set of M8 heads today, the valves were less than 2 thou difference in stem protrusion.

[rbabos]

Harley has no QC so they thought of this to cure any Rocker arm inconsistencies.
LOL

Was wondering that myself so I checked a set of M8 heads today, the valves were less than 2 thou difference in stem protrusion.

Protrusion is step one. Then you need to check full assembly with rockers installed for actual variation between them. Pad wear, bushing clearances between one end and other and even shaft bosses not being square ,  all play into the total variances at the valve tips. No stone unturned, so to speak. All of a sudden, adjustable rocker becomes attractive as an error removal device at the end of the line.
Ron

[Don D]

EPA may be one reason these are not oem

[rbabos]

EPA may be one reason these are not oem

Do you figure the swivel foot will make noise? I've not seen that , using them on VW's.
Ron

[kristian]

old news but new to the hd club, this, or similar should have been there from the beginning. 

[hd06]

 I thing it's a great idea.

[N-gin]

old news but new to the hd club, this, or similar should have been there from the beginning.

I said the same thing when I first saw the rocker arm and many others as well.

[BVHOG]

Unfortunately dealer says not yet available, not sure when.

[sfmichael]

I like the idea. As others have stated I thought it should have been there at the start

Loving all this M8 development

Another year or two and I'll get a little more serious about buying one

[TorQuePimp]

.001-.003 average

[jsachs1]

The swivel adjuster foot looks just like the ones Fueling used on his 4 valve heads. He had 2 upgrades over the ones used in the picture. 
John

[hdbikedoc]

Japanese has had this set up for years makes sense  The valves must open and close the same 
even the overhead cam models can be equalled with bucket shims  of different size so you get equal opening
EPA has nothing to do with it   the bottom line is cost
do you really think you could match stem protrusion  without spending a few hours fiddling try to charge that to a customer         I vote great to see

[alstar2]

would it be better if you had adjustable push rods,so you could loosen the push rod ,then zero out the rocker arm & then adjust the push rod.
is that 2 turns or 3?

[build it]

Neat

[PoorUB]

would it be better if you had adjustable push rods,so you could loosen the push rod ,then zero out the rocker arm & then adjust the push rod.
is that 2 turns or 3?

??
The hydraulic lifter will keep one valve at zero lash. You just need to adjust the one valve to near zero clearance. I would imagine you turn the screw int until it just touched the valve stem and lock it down. No need for feeler gauges.

[happyman]

I like the idea. As others have stated I thought it should have been there at the start

Loving all this M8 development

Another year or two and I'll get a little more serious about buying one

By then   HD will put out another wonderful product!

[rbabos]

would it be better if you had adjustable push rods,so you could loosen the push rod ,then zero out the rocker arm & then adjust the push rod.
is that 2 turns or 3?

??
The hydraulic lifter will keep one valve at zero lash. You just need to adjust the one valve to near zero clearance. I would imagine you turn the screw int until it just touched the valve stem and lock it down. No need for feeler gauges.

Correct.
Ron

[farmall]

EPA may be one reason these are not oem

They've no effect on emissions and if the "noise excuse" made sense Sportsters wouldn't have four gear drive cams. That old EPA wives tale is used to excuse MoCo foulups but I defy anyone anywhere to produce DATA to back it up.  HD are infamously cheap down the decades so if they can save small change by reducing parts count or cheapening execution, they do. That's one reason for the massive aftermarket.

Matching stem protrusion to adjust valves is despicably stupid and whoever inflicted it on the owner community knew what they were doing. Cutting valve seats to do what thoroughly proven adjusters do? Wow. My Suzuki GS 750 four valver had adjusters in the 1980s (and almost never needed adjusting).

[BVHOG]

Recieved my two "adjustable rocker arm kits" of the SE adjustable rockers today, you would assume as did the parts guy that a kit meant two of them.  Turns out you need four kits for one motor, some "kit"

[rbabos]

Recieved my two "adjustable rocker arm kits" of the SE adjustable rockers today, you would assume as did the parts guy that a kit meant two of them.  Turns out you need four kits for one motor, some "kit"

So, one should ask for a set of 4 instead when ordering ? Stupid marketing terminology for sure.
Ron

[PoorUB]

What kind of money? I assume if you thought you were ordering enough for one engine they must be on the spendy side.

[kd]

They are probably called a "kit" because each one individually is an assortment of 3 pieces that when assembled makes a "unit". (Did they come assembled?)  You likely only get one "unit / kit" because they are meant to correct a valve in the bank of 2 that has improper protrusion.  Cheaper than pulling the head and performing a high tech valve job to even them up. 

If you have 1 valve that needs repair, you do it and replace the rocker with the SE adjustable version. The MOCO regularly comes out with fixes for their screw ups and they call them SE parts to divert attention from calling it a recall. They know there is a problem and come out with a part to cure it, call it a performance upgrade, and we pay for the remedy again.

[happyman]

They are probably called a "kit" because each one individually is an assortment of 3 pieces that when assembled makes a "unit". (Did they come assembled?)  You likely only get one "unit / kit" because they are meant to correct a valve in the bank of 2 that has improper protrusion.  Cheaper than pulling the head and performing a high tech valve job to even them up. 

If you have 1 valve that needs repair, you do it and replace the rocker with the SE adjustable version. The MOCO regularly comes out with fixes for their screw ups and they call them SE parts to divert attention from calling it a recall. They know there is a problem and come out with a part to cure it, call it a performance upgrade, and we pay for the remedy again.

does seem to be the case all too often  where the  label  SE is applied to a screw up  so the customer once again get the hosing .

[rbabos]

They are probably called a "kit" because each one individually is an assortment of 3 pieces that when assembled makes a "unit". (Did they come assembled?)  You likely only get one "unit / kit" because they are meant to correct a valve in the bank of 2 that has improper protrusion.  Cheaper than pulling the head and performing a high tech valve job to even them up. 

If you have 1 valve that needs repair, you do it and replace the rocker with the SE adjustable version. The MOCO regularly comes out with fixes for their screw ups and they call them SE parts to divert attention from calling it a recall. They know there is a problem and come out with a part to cure it, call it a performance upgrade, and we pay for the remedy again.

does seem to be the case all too often  where the  label  SE is applied to a screw up  so the customer once again get the hosing .

Plus,  MoCo turns a profit while at it. How many SE comps were sold as retrofits to solve  the crappy first 07 comps? How many SE replacement comps were sold to replace the constant worn out units until oiling was introduced? But wait, there's more. New improved rocker arms will be flying off the shelves now. Me, I tired of the BS .

Ron

[LuzRD]

What kind of money? I assume if you thought you were ordering enough for one engine they must be on the spendy side.

MSRP is $55.95 and Surdyke lists them at $46.04 for each part number

[BVHOG]

Yup, price was the 55.95 per rocker so still not a terrible price.

[Karl H.]

Could you please take a picture of the unit and post it here?

Karl