Weak points?

[Xyzzy]

I just got a Sportster. I am pretty familiar with Twin Cam engines so I know to watch out for:

Compensator problems (No compensator on a Sportster!)
Cam chain tensioner shoes (Gear driven cams on a Sportster!)
Excessive crankshaft runout (Sportster?)
Scissored cranks (Sportster?)

So I am wondering which of these issues affect the Sportster and if there is anything else to watch out for.

FWIW, I already replaced the spring plate in my clutch with two steels and one friction disk.

Thanks!

[Xyzzy]

Is anyone out there?



Edit: I put 7,200 miles on my 48 over the last month. It runs great!

[harley_cruiser]

Is anyone out there?



Edit: I put 7,200 miles on my 48 over the last month. It runs great!

What year?

[Xyzzy]

What year?

2018

[Hossamania]

It needs a proper tune.
I have a friend with an almost ten year old Nightster, 50,000 miles or so, no problems.

[Xyzzy]

It needs a proper tune.

It runs real smooth on the stock tune. Compared to my previous 5 HDs it runs impressively cool as well. I have the analog oil dipstick thermometer thingy and it rarely ventures higher than 210F. The cats are in the mufflers so the heat (if there is any) doesn't wash onto me as I ride.

It doesn't make a ton of power, but it makes up for that by being significantly lighter. The fuel economy is great, too. (I know most people dismiss fuel economy, but I ride 5-7K a month so it adds up!)

[attach=0]

I'm going to do an EPA-approved SE stage 1 to it. I value reliability and smoothness above all else so keeping the bike as close to stock as possible means I spend less time wrenching and more time riding. I'm hoping to get just a tad bit more volume out of the mufflers and perhaps a slightly deeper tone.

I really like the gearing spread that the bike has and the engine loves to rev so this is the most fun I've had in a long time!

I never would have considered a Sportster. I had the idea they were entry-level bike or girl's bikes. (I am not up to speed on HD history.) But, I took one for a test ride and it really spoke to me.

My progression of HDs has been from big to small:

RGS -> SGS -> RK -> LRS -> 48

I really like being in the wind and the visceral/elemental feel of a minimal bike. The bigger bikes insulate me from the experience too much.

Edit: The whine from the gear driven cams sounds really cool!

[Will-Run]

Interested to hear your, on going adventure and evaluation of the Sporty.

[Xyzzy]

I haven't been able to figure out what a Sportster uses for engine knock detection.

I know it does not use the Delphi ion sensing system.

The tune I put on it via a SE tuner only has an ignition timing retard table for temperature.

Any ideas?

I wish I could find a technical book on the Evo Sportster engine!

[rbabos]

I haven't been able to figure out what a Sportster uses for engine knock detection.

I know it does not use the Delphi ion sensing system.

The tune I put on it via a SE tuner only has an ignition timing retard table for temperature.

Any ideas?

I wish I could find a technical book on the Evo Sportster engine!

Simple. It has no knock detection.
Ron

[Xyzzy]

Simple. It has no knock detection.

So they retard the timing enough by default to cover any possible situation?

I suppose that works but it leaves a lot of efficiency and power untapped.

The bike has ample power (for me) so I guess I'm okay with it.

[rbabos]

Simple. It has no knock detection.

So they retard the timing enough by default to cover any possible situation?

I suppose that works but it leaves a lot of efficiency and power untapped.

The bike has ample power (for me) so I guess I'm okay with it.

I don't think you would lose power. In some cases too much timing kills power. Get the timing right it should be just as good but it could detonate with lower grade fuel or extreme temps, which is when in those conditions knock sensing would shine. Tmax for example doesn't have it either. Timing is the hardest part to get dialed .
Ron

[Xyzzy]

I suppose I will use this thread for general/random Sportster thoughts. (Until someone tells me to stop, I guess?)

For motor oil I am using Redline 20W50 (42504). For transmission/primary oil I am using Redline 75W90 (57904).

I passed 10,000 miles today. That took me 41 days.

I can't believe how fun it is to ride!

[attach=1]

[Hossamania]

10,000 miles in 41 days? Damn, man, have you no responsibilities?
I'm jealous!

[Karl H.]

Coming back to the main topic and having experience with Twin Cam and rubber mounted Sportster Harleys I can tell you that the Sportster engine is a very robust design and more reliable than the Twin Cam. The integrated tranny/primary design leaves less oil seals that can start leaking. Gear driven cams don't need chains and tensioners. The external oil pump is robust and reliable. Last but not least some service work like changing the drive belt or replacing the shifter oil seal (if ever necessary) is significantly easyer.

The only repairs I had to do with my two Sportsters within 50.000 miles:
- Screw on front motor mount loose
- Slightly leaking oil line due to a loose fitting
- Leaking valve cover gasket
- defective wheel bearing

Karl

[aswracing]

There have been various weak points over the years, most of which HD has corrected. Most of these issues only show up when you raise the power level of the motor. Some were apparent even on stock Buells due to their higher stock power levels, and when HD addressed them in Buells, for the most part they rolled those changes into Sportsters.

For example, through 2000 they liked to crack the steel backing plate in the primary tensioner. Hardly ever happened on a stock Sportster. But Buells were failing even while stock, and HD came out with a thicker version in 2001 that solved the problem.

Another similar issue with the 4 bolts that held the alternator rotor hat to the front primary sprocket through 2001. Not a problem at 65hp. But Buells at 85hp were known for shearing those bolts. HD came out with an 8-bolt version in 2002.

Probably the worst one though was the oil pump drive gear, the one that sits on the pinion shaft right under the pinion gear. At higher rpm's the cranks develop some spread, and that causes a little runout, and what happens is the engagement of that gear with it's matching gear on the oil pump changes. The teeth start getting sharp in one area, and 180 degrees from that spot they'll look like new. Eventually the teeth fail and you have shrapnel all through the crankcase and no oil pressure. It's a mess. Again, it was a non-issue on stock XL's, but Buells were eating these gears up. HD finally came out with a bronze gear in 2006 (part number 26391-06) but on this one, they never put it on XL's, it was only put on Buells. Must've costed a nickel more than the steel gear or something. It's an upgrade we recommend whenever anyone is in their Sportster or pre-2006 Buell for a cam swap. Cheap piece of preventative maintenance.

The other issue that's plagued XL's forever is wet sumping. It's always been something of an issue, but in 2004 when they added the oil squirters, it got worse. They revised the oil pump in 1998, 2001, and again in 2007, making improvements to the scavenging each time. The 2007 change actually made the pressure side smaller so that they could make the scavenge side bigger. Wet sumping is mostly an issue at sustained high rpm, and it also gets worse the better your ring seal gets. Gapless rings tend to make these motors wet sump terribly. A little blow-by helps scavenging believe it or not.

And finally, there's been one other issue on rubber mount XL's specifically (2004+). The rear motor mount has this tube and the retaining bolts for it like to shear off. Here, let me find a pic ...



Number 1 in the above pic. There are three of them. If the back of the bike starts getting squirrely, check those bolts.

The front motor mount donuts are also known to develop a sag over time. Consider it a maintenance item. Not hard to change.

With respect to tuners, even a stock bike can be made to run much better with the addition of a good tuner. I'm a Powervision fan for it's ease of use. Generally speaking, you find more by softening the timing, not being more aggressive. These motors have a fair bit of cylinder pressure right from the factory, the stock cams have a 25 degree IVC and the CR is 9.7-10:1, depending on which year's specs you read. I don't know why they put so much spark advance into them from the factory. Also there's a pretty big closed-loop area of the map and most guys will shrink that down to just the cruise range.

[fbn ent]

Had to do a repair for the wobble on my wife's '07. Still the same set up on the new models....Here is more info.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,68845.msg743651.html#msg743651

[PC_Hater]

You can tell Sportsters are good when somebody that really knows what they are doing comes up with such a short list of problems!

I might be inspired enough to build a slightly smaller version of my FLTRI affectionately known as 'The Barge' using a rubber-mount Sportster...
As long it takes HD panniers and that comfy Electra-Glide seat she likes it'll be fine...

[Xyzzy]

A question about lifters:

The Twin Cam and the Sportster share the same lifter part number. (18538-99C)

You read about lifter problems a bunch on the Twin Cam sub-forum here.

Are lifters an issue for Sportsters?

If not, why not?

[cyclobutch]

My '89 XLH1200 hasn't been so good.

Broke the horse shoe shaped thing in the gearbox.
Bust the magnets off the alternator.
Needed new starter motor.
Needed all new ignition module.
Original clutch plates got sticky and had to be replaced.

Got 22k miles on it is all.

[aswracing]

A question about lifters:

The Twin Cam and the Sportster share the same lifter part number. (18538-99C)

You read about lifter problems a bunch on the Twin Cam sub-forum here.

Are lifters an issue for Sportsters?

If not, why not?

We do tons of performance packages for guys, using the stock lifters. Issues are rare.

I don't know why the difference.

[Xyzzy]

I've been experiencing intermittent misfires every once in a while that feels like I have bad fuel. It only happens occasionally for a few minutes and then stops.

Today I pulled the plugs and the terminal thingy was loose on the rear cylinder plug. (I put in NGK plugs which have a threaded terminal thingy.)

I put the OEM plugs back in. (They have a bonded terminal thingy.)

This never happened before I put the NGK plugs in.

I hope this fixes the issue!

[Hossamania]

A common issue to have those connectors come loose. I give them an extra twist when I install them, almost squeezing them to deform them. It has been mentioned to mung the threads a bit to act like a thread locker.

[Xyzzy]

I think I unscrewed the terminal when I twisted the plug rubber to take it off.

I went for a long ride today. Initially, everything was fine. The fix worked!

But, about 150 miles into the ride, the bike started misfiring again.

I was so pissed I just pulled over to the side of the road and turned the bike off and sat under a tree.

I have 14,000 miles on the bike as of today. It has run perfectly up until a few days ago. Was there anything I could think of that might be the cause?

Well, until a few days ago, the weather has been pretty mild. And during the winter, it was pretty cold.

I have a rear cylinder head temperature readout on my speedometer. I keep a close eye on it just because I am curious. It usually reads max about 375F. When the bike is misfiring, I remembered that it was pretty hot out. Today, the CHT was in the 380s.

Now the next part is hard to believe. I am not even sure it is legit.

When I traded in my LRS for the Sportster, I kept these cool covers:

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/classic-chrome-spark-plug-covers

They don't list them as fitting my Sportster, but they (physically) do.

They were super duper hot. (It took me a long time to get them off they were so hot!)

After removing them, the misfiring was gone. I wasn't able to get the CHT into the 380s, though. Maybe the (insulating?) covers caused the high temps?

So my theory is that the spark plugs were overheating.

The bike wasn't pinging, just stumbling like it had bad fuel.

So:

1 - Does this "fix" make sense?

2 - If so, did I damage the spark plugs or engine in any way?

3 - Should I get a spark plug that is 1 heat range cooler?

I'm pretty baffled right now. Spark plugs on a car are buried under a hood and have no air flow and they don't "overheat".

[Hossamania]

Those covers would definitely be suspect. I have read of them causing trouble more than once in the past. I'd even suspect them of causing a misfire due to shorting out more than the heat, or because of the heat.

[Xyzzy]

I'm unclear how the covers could short circuit anything.

They are metal but what would they short out?