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143 Version 2.0

Started by HD/Wrench, April 10, 2018, 08:22:39 AM

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1workinman

Disconnected battery and removed the starter , hears 2 clinking noises on the top of bike lift and wth was that . The two bushing that center the starter , glad they hit metal now I know to check for that . Pulled plugs and inspected looked ok , marked the starter ring gear and tried to turn over the motor . Damn finally I got a pry bar and moved the tire on the stand little by little , to inspect the new basket and ring gear assembly. That reminded me of trying to start a Fair Banks Morris what was it 739 or what ever that was 40 years ago when I use to pump some wells and was a mechanic for a production company .  I going to revisit Rays post on building the tool to move the engine over , looks like a good idea . No damage was found and I turned the machine over several times damn . So now I going to decide on a starter or just rebuild mine with a kit from amazon , contacts and plunger ,  and one of those very well made starter clutch assembles that was suggested and thanks there . I was thinking about one of those manual push plunger covers also . I just don't want it to leak water and be well made . Years ago I made a mandrel  to clean up the contacts and give the most contact area on these starters . I use to silver solder up the contacts and then reface them.  Later on I found that bigger contacts were available so I just did that . Even after installing the new contacts I installed the lapping tool to just see how the contact was . I found that if I adjusted the bolt a tad that secure the contact if improved the area.

1workinman

Today I call a shop to order my starter clutch and I mentioned what it was for and they had just finished a build a 150 inch motor .  b3 heads manual compression releases , there crank built to there specs ,  h beam rods ect . Their pistons and SS 640 camshaft ,   well just when you think your the only one lol  A bit of head work .   

Pete_Vit

Purty set of piston ya got there.  :up:
93 XLH1200 - 96 FXSTS - 2010 Ultra Glide Classic
www.facebook.com/harleypartsch

1workinman

Quote from: Pete_Vit on July 09, 2019, 05:46:11 AM
Purty set of piston ya got there.  :up:
Thanks Yea Steve did the leg work on finding those pistons there pretty slick  , got the heavy duty sprag that turbo prop recommended today from RR and the fellow there said it was a job to install the damn thing and he was not joking . If I ever do that again I going to build a tapered mandrel to install the retaining ring that secures the pinion . I finally got it done . I never installed one of those I just replaced the starter and was done or rebuild the contacts and plunger . I ordered two of those manual solenoid covers that I can push in after the bike Is in neutral lol and start the bike if I get in a jam. 

1workinman

wZ
Quote from: aabikrman on July 07, 2019, 06:00:05 AM
Go with the Spraggusa.com.

My little 120 liked to eat starter clutches about every two years. The Spragg fixed that issue and it's got a lifetime replacement warranty that I've not needed.  I'm also meticulous with good batteries, cables, and clean contacts but the Spragg seemed to resolve my issue.
i want ti thank you and  turbo prop for the great  advice  back togethe sounds good  damn  sure appreciate the advice . Add that to the reccomended  parts  lol

1workinman

 Got the end covers from Amazon , the ones that all you use  to start the motor manually. I was not impressed with the fit of the plunger and o ring compression . I don't think that it had any preload on the o ring . I did not want it to leak water there at the car wash . I realize that I should not point the wand on it but still . I tried several o rings I have several here as I keep all of the spares . I finally found one that seemed better but it still did not seem right . I took some black tape and installed one wrap under it and installed . Seemed a tad tight but after I used some o ring lubricate I have . Just right .  If I have any trouble I just build a plunger out of SS at work with the correct fit . I have a Bridgeport mill and a lathe I got to go get and some tooling that goes with it , pretty handy for projects lol

1workinman

 Still in the testing stage and concerned about heat . I uses the cooling fans all of the time now in middle of July .We me and the GF loaded up this morning and headed to town and it was probably less than 90 degs . So two up , its a pleasure to drive as its so much torque , starter problems are gone The temps , oil temps are at 210 for a while it finally got to 90s and the temp of oil went to 230 or so . Now if you slow down and pull in a station or go through town it will climb I saw probably 250 while pulling in a station and circling out , price of fuel did not excite me . Hit the freeway leveled off at speed limit and temps came down to 230 so . I going to suggest to those that don't have any way of monitoring your temps or cooling fans I guess as long as you don't know its ok lol . My friend nearly chocked when I told me how much the fans cost . I don't care If it is what I want and I can justify it . One thing is for sure that blowing around me days have stopped by my friends lol

turboprop

Quote from: 1workinman on July 13, 2019, 01:30:42 PM
Still in the testing stage and concerned about heat . I uses the cooling fans all of the time now in middle of July .We me and the GF loaded up this morning and headed to town and it was probably less than 90 degs . So two up , its a pleasure to drive as its so much torque , starter problems are gone The temps , oil temps are at 210 for a while it finally got to 90s and the temp of oil went to 230 or so . Now if you slow down and pull in a station or go through town it will climb I saw probably 250 while pulling in a station and circling out , price of fuel did not excite me . Hit the freeway leveled off at speed limit and temps came down to 230 so . I going to suggest to those that don't have any way of monitoring your temps or cooling fans I guess as long as you don't know its ok lol . My friend nearly chocked when I told me how much the fans cost . I don't care If it is what I want and I can justify it . One thing is for sure that blowing around me days have stopped by my friends lol

Same thing with AFR, especially on an injected bike. With a carb, the AFR is expected to be all over the place. Put an AFR gauge on an injected bike after paying a few bills for a tune. At least harley offers an oil temp gauge for some of their bikes. Imagine if they offered an AFR gauge? Hahahaha
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

1workinman

Quote from: turboprop on July 14, 2019, 04:39:07 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on July 13, 2019, 01:30:42 PM
Still in the testing stage and concerned about heat . I uses the cooling fans all of the time now in middle of July .We me and the GF loaded up this morning and headed to town and it was probably less than 90 degs . So two up , its a pleasure to drive as its so much torque , starter problems are gone The temps , oil temps are at 210 for a while it finally got to 90s and the temp of oil went to 230 or so . Now if you slow down and pull in a station or go through town it will climb I saw probably 250 while pulling in a station and circling out , price of fuel did not excite me . Hit the freeway leveled off at speed limit and temps came down to 230 so . I going to suggest to those that don't have any way of monitoring your temps or cooling fans I guess as long as you don't know its ok lol . My friend nearly chocked when I told me how much the fans cost . I don't care If it is what I want and I can justify it . One thing is for sure that blowing around me days have stopped by my friends lol

Same thing with AFR, especially on an injected bike. With a carb, the AFR is expected to be all over the place. Put an AFR gauge on an injected bike after paying a few bills for a tune. At least harley offers an oil temp gauge for some of their bikes. Imagine if they offered an AFR gauge? Hahahaha
Yea lol probably the only reason the 143 at the temps today is the fact that the tune was done to help keep it cooler has not come apart or detonated a ring land off . I know that I can buy a A/F ratio or gauge and I seen then listed but not bought one . I know Steve went to a lot of trouble to tune it . One thing I learned is to make sure the exhaust is tight and not leaking in air to cause trouble with the tune . Went for a ride that was a couple of hours away on the free way and the temps were in the 90s not real hot but hot enough lol  .One back up plan was to use meth injection if it was needed but seems it was not a problem. I used it before years ago . .  I keep an eye on the oil temps on both bikes as I seen what can happen pretty quick .  . I not overly concerned about fuel economy as I am the health of the motor , but not so rich as to wash down cylinder walls , here is where you  have to pick a tuner you trust .

1workinman

 Wanted to see how the  Road Glide would do so I bought a new Haul Mark trailer and equipped it to haul two bagger and not get damaged I hoped , turns out it worked ok .  I did this for a couple of reasons one I got tired of ridding in storms and 100 plus degree temps . I just want to get where I want and ride.  Took my Street Glide with the 124 and the Road Glide with the  145 inch . Both bikes are very similar as far as gauges , cooling fans , final drive gearing . My friend Terry has driven the Road Glide before a few times so he is  familiar with how it runs , starts , responds ect .  So we went to Creede Colorado . So after firing up the bikes ,  Not sure how far we went as we went to Durango and headed north then at Montrose we went right to or close to Gunnison and turned south to lake city and finally to Creede . Seemed like we were ridding for a long time . Lots of off on and on  throttle , we did not spare the throttle as we knew that would be late when we got back . Of course on the mountains you can get killed being dumb especially at night and it wound up that way . We left out at 8 or so am and it was after 9 that night .   One the straight high way we ran way over the limit .  At any rate both bikes used fuel very close to each other , now to be fair I was 2 up .  Temps ran from 170 to 210 . That was driving stop and go in the towns . Both bike did about the same there . The 145 responded better to the elevation changes than the 124 . It was spot on and Terry told me that it ran good not hesitation or sputtering , spot on response . For what ever reason my bike does not seem to do that well there .  No problems with hot starts . The twin power and good cables really seemed to help the 145 .  I checked to oil today on both bikes . the 124 did not seem to use a drop how ever the 145 I did add some oil to it . Not a lot but some . If that is the normal then that is ok as I don't have a bitch about that as long as it runs good .  I will say the deeper gear I added to the Street glide really shines 2 up in Colorado in the mountains and even on the straight roads .  So for many hours of ridding tank to tank except for one stop at the Harley dealer in Durango ridding off and on the throttle on the mountains seemed to be a decent test for it .  I not suggesting it is a perfect long distance touring bike but it did pretty good here . One the oil level  I may try running a tad lower than I was and see if that matters . Both bikes have the same venting system . It may be the bigger motor responds to the lower level better .

1workinman

 Loaded up trailer with the 143 and a captain American Fat boy and headed to the big bend area . On Tuesday me and my friend Terry headed out . I am 2 up on my bike and Terry is on his Fat Boy . Steve did the top end a few years ago on it and it runs very good .  I noticed my oil temp got up to around 250ish when we were in the park and had to drive pretty slow . Later on I found out it was 95 deg temp that day . If I could speed up to say 55 or 60 the temps came down to 240ish . Bike ran good and it cooled off on the way back to motel at the end of the day so at 230 .  Next day we got a late start and headed back to the big bend park and it was pretty warm that day also . 230 was the normal temp . One thing that I noticed is it takes a while to get to 230 so I a larger oil cooler would help to control the temps . As usual the temps came up when we were in the park and had to drive slower . . On the way back it was getting late and a storm had apparently developed as I could see lighting in front of us .  The border agent ask are you going to out run the storm . I laughed and said going to find out .I was a lot  cooler and I gave the 143 some throttle from up to 3500  to 4000 or  more for a little over an hour  . When I saw head lights I let off to 75 miles . My friend told me later on we blew past a high way patrol at about well  over the limit . Crap all I could see was lighting . . The cool air that 143 was pretty crisp . Checked the oil the next day and it did not seem to use any . One thing to remember sun glass are great but at night not so good . I kept thinking if a deer or mule dear steps out in front its not going to be pretty . I unloaded the bike today and check oil . I don't think it used any oil . The oil temps I going to consider added a larger cooler of a extra cooler to the motor as I like to be able to keep the temps around the 220 to 230 range .  Even 2 up pulling hills is not much of a problem just add a bit of throttle and  shift .  I still not suggesting a 143 is a great choice for a touring motor . If I was I consider installing a bit higher gearing . May any way as the torque is good enough to use it I think . I don't know how may miles we went every day I think about 300 I not sure ..   I will say that between the 143 and the 124 there is pretty noticeable difference is power and just pulling the hills and not look back

HighLiner

Have you found an option for a larger capacity oil cooler?

kd

I did something similar to the pic in this attachment.  I added an OEM shovelhead Lockhart oil cooler by mounting it in the typical position under the steering head neck and adding a thermostat.  No need to drill any holes. The top mounted Lockhart cooler can be covered with the OEM cover in cooler weather.  I don't have a temp gauge but all indications from my idle oil pressure and radiant heat effect tells  me it is working well.
 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1994-DUCATI-MONSTER-M900-Twin-Oil-Cooler-Set-W-Tapet-Cover-yyy/264867436727?hash=item3dab5458b7:g:nysAAOSwdipfYgy1
KD

Don D

Consider there are opportunities to reduce heat by changing cruise timing values. The method used typically is maximum power without anti knock events but cruise and low throttle operation gets an OK nod. Think vacuum advance in cars :wink:

HD/Wrench

Not sure what your saying Don
That is not a hero dyno sheet by any means , Timing and afr are fine in the cruise areas ( these do not run a lean AFR under cruise )  and as for WOT pulls we sure as hell dont turn knock off .  All runs done with AC on the bike and up to temp with knock turned on , then you get it into the grid lock temps re check timing make more pulls .  what you see is a every day pull ,  250 oil temp does not make me even give it a second thought when lugging a big inch high comp bike around .

Don D

October 26, 2020, 10:07:23 AM #115 Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 10:12:40 AM by HD Street Performance
Not commenting on the dyno, just trying to illustrate the importance of cruise timing as it relates to heat production.  I do not consider 250deg overheated oil.  Fine as-is. My comments are of a general nature and not meant to discredit anybody or the build

No Cents

   ...run it just the way it is Jim.  :up:
I know that thing has to be a huge rush to ride!
   Just keep good oil in it and change it more often that not, and that bike will live a long life and put many smiles on your face.  :wink:
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

1workinman

Quote from: HighLiner on October 26, 2020, 08:07:29 AM
Have you found an option for a larger capacity oil cooler?
No but I going to find something that will work and I going to install it on both money pits . I really like the way compression makes a bike run and that required to keep the motor cool I think so I going to find a way to keep it in check besides the way I operate my bike 

1workinman

This has been a learning experience but I just here to share what I found out about a 143 that has been modified an tuned . It is a really fun ride . I just don't want to damage any thing . My friend Terry told me that it sound very good . Even two up and going up the hills in Big Bend it was nothing . One thing I did not do is roll on hard at say 2500 going up a hill . I just blip the throttle down shift and land the bike in a lower gear as just a way to avoid any to drive the motor into detonation. It had plenty of power but I just not wanting to risk it . What I really like is it just spot on the throttle even at the slights movement . Just a crack the throttle and its on . Very smooth linear power . I had no desire to have massive wheel spin on the hills there .  The reason I asked about the oil cooler is it takes many many miles for the oil temp to reach 230 . I want the oil temps to get up to 220 just to keep the moisture out .   

1workinman

Quote from: No Cents on October 26, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
   ...run it just the way it is Jim.  :up:
I know that thing has to be a huge rush to ride!
   Just keep good oil in it and change it more often that not, and that bike will live a long life and put many smiles on your face.  :wink:
Thanks Ray it is really a hoot to ride lol . A really good tune so that it is responsive even at very low throttle angles and that important when your in the mountains like Colorado . Smooth predictable linear power. Spent two days in New Mexico before heading home. Yep I going to change the oil now as soon as it warms up a tad lol thanks

1workinman

Quote from: kd on October 26, 2020, 09:02:36 AM
I did something similar to the pic in this attachment.  I added an OEM shovelhead Lockhart oil cooler by mounting it in the typical position under the steering head neck and adding a thermostat.  No need to drill any holes. The top mounted Lockhart cooler can be covered with the OEM cover in cooler weather.  I don't have a temp gauge but all indications from my idle oil pressure and radiant heat effect tells  me it is working well.
 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1994-DUCATI-MONSTER-M900-Twin-Oil-Cooler-Set-W-Tapet-Cover-yyy/264867436727?hash=item3dab5458b7:g:nysAAOSwdipfYgy1
Thanks KD I just trying to avoid any  problems that may arise in odd situations like getting caught in a park with 35 miles and hour and 95 deg .  What a deal when we finally got there to the Reo Grand on this side of the park I said this is it lol , Drank a couple cold ones ,  and head back to Alpine . Me an my friend Terry like the road side parks every so often for a cold one lol