sumping issues on the oil cooled m8

[happyman]

      Curious if there are sumping issues with the M8 oil cooled, motor,  or is it all related to the twin cooled motors?
Thanks

[VDeuce]

Most if not all of the ones I've heard of are oil cooled..

[happyman]

Most if not all of the ones I've heard of are oil cooled..

that is interesting. all along was under the impression it was mostly the twin cooled motors. this is a surprise to me, for sure.
Thanks   

[kd]

The twin cooled (wet head) is a twin cam with an optional cooling feature. The oil cooled (M8) is a re-designed (single cam) engine totally different from the twin cam design. The wet head uses the twin cam (so called proven) oil pump and system components and the M8 uses a new design (obviously not proven) oil pump and system.

[happyman]

The twin cooled (wet head) is a twin cam with an optional cooling feature. The oil cooled (M8) is a re-designed (single cam) engine totally different from the twin cam design. The wet head uses the twin cam (so called proven) oil pump and system components and the M8 uses a new design (obviously not proven) oil pump and system.

do we call the 2017 CVO with oil cooled and the wet heads twin cooled also  the ultras

[PoorUB]

Harley still uses the Twin Cooled terminology with the M8. Don't believe me? Take a look at

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/2018/touring/ultra-limited.html

[flh canuck]

Have a Twin-Cooled 2018 Ultra sitting in my garage.

Just returned home from a 4000 mile ride down to southern California/Nevada and back. Handled the 104 degree heat of Death Valley with no issues whatsoever. Ran it hard on many higher speed interstates and no sumping or other issues of any kind. That being said, my buddy with his 2017 oil cooled Road King also had zero issues on this trip. I think I was most impressed with how quiet this new engine is compared to my last 103 Twin Cam. This engine just purrs along effortlessly regardless of how hot the temperature is, or how hard I run it.

Pretty happy with the new Milwaukee 8!!!

[happyman]

Have a Twin-Cooled 2018 Ultra sitting in my garage.

Just returned home from a 4000 mile ride down to southern California/Nevada and back. Handled the 104 degree heat of Death Valley with no issues whatsoever. Ran it hard on many higher speed interstates and no sumping or other issues of any kind. That being said, my buddy with his 2017 oil cooled Road King also had zero issues on this trip. I think I was most impressed with how quiet this new engine is compared to my last 103 Twin Cam. This engine just purrs along effortlessly regardless of how hot the temperature is, or how hard I run it.

Pretty happy with the new Milwaukee 8!!!

everyone should be so lucky as to have a  reliable ride

[cmashark]

My sumping was on a stage 3 twin cooled 2017 CVO Street Glide.

[happyman]

My sumping was on a stage 3 twin cooled 2017 CVO Street Glide.

has your dealer told you the fix yet? how much oil are you getting  when you check the amount.   used to be 3 oz last I seen was raided to six oz. as the summer goes on that limit may raise again.

[hd06myway]

Have a Twin-Cooled 2018 Ultra sitting in my garage.

Just returned home from a 4000 mile ride down to southern California/Nevada and back. Handled the 104 degree heat of Death Valley with no issues whatsoever. Ran it hard on many higher speed interstates and no sumping or other issues of any kind. That being said, my buddy with his 2017 oil cooled Road King also had zero issues on this trip. I think I was most impressed with how quiet this new engine is compared to my last 103 Twin Cam. This engine just purrs along effortlessly regardless of how hot the temperature is, or how hard I run it.

Pretty happy with the new Milwaukee 8!!!

nice to hear that Canada... no question in my mind the M8 is the best motor Harley's ever made just like every other motor that followed Harley in 115 yrs was better than the previous one.... too many nay sayers around here....good to see positive boots in the wind feedback!

[cmashark]

My sumping was on a stage 3 twin cooled 2017 CVO Street Glide.

has your dealer told you the fix yet? how much oil are you getting  when you check the amount.   used to be 3 oz last I seen was raided to six oz. as the summer goes on that limit may raise again.

They bought it back. From what they told me, they changed the oil pump and sold it to someone else.  That was last summer.  When I tested it for sumping, I got 9 ounces the first time and 8 ounces the second time.  When the dealer tested it the following day, they got "more than 8 ounces".

[happyman]

My sumping was on a stage 3 twin cooled 2017 CVO Street Glide.

has your dealer told you the fix yet? how much oil are you getting  when you check the amount.   used to be 3 oz last I seen was raided to six oz. as the summer goes on that limit may raise again.

They bought it back. From what they told me, they changed the oil pump and sold it to someone else.  That was last summer.  When I tested it for sumping, I got 9 ounces the first time and 8 ounces the second time.  When the dealer tested it the following day, they got "more than 8 ounces".

Curious  who is they?  amazing someone bought it back

[cmashark]

My sumping was on a stage 3 twin cooled 2017 CVO Street Glide.

has your dealer told you the fix yet? how much oil are you getting  when you check the amount.   used to be 3 oz last I seen was raided to six oz. as the summer goes on that limit may raise again.

They bought it back. From what they told me, they changed the oil pump and sold it to someone else.  That was last summer.  When I tested it for sumping, I got 9 ounces the first time and 8 ounces the second time.  When the dealer tested it the following day, they got "more than 8 ounces".

Curious  who is they?  amazing someone bought it back

The dealership.  Could be because I've bought 5 new bikes from them in the last couple years.  Could also be that it's rare for them to have a CVO (new or used) sit on their floor long so they knew it would sell and I would be looking for my next bike.  Last month I bought my 4th M8 from them.  It's a 2018 RGS.  Couldn't resist the pearl white.

[Txwezl]

I checked mine last week for the first time. It had about 8 1/2 ounces in the sump but I've not had any problems to this point.

[happyman]

I checked mine last week for the first time. It had about 8 1/2 ounces in the sump but I've not had any problems to this point.

so now the question is how many oz. is still in  there after you check how many oz.  the way they are checked now?  we know there is a actually a  drain plug below that location where its being checked from that will have 8 oz in it also.  so now how much oil can you have in the motor before your dragging the lower end through it and losing some hp and tq you paid dearly for?  or how much does it take to after a oeriod of time will be bearing puke and leave you holding the bag?  or just flat assed smoke the moter completely and ruin your vacation  or a nice ride on the weekend ? just never know

[BigT]

My bored 107"  to 117" has been running great. About 1500 miles on it and has been using zero oil. Just checked my oil level after a 1/2 hour high rpm highway blast and I'm down well over a quart. No doubt it is sitting in the lower end sump.  Not very happy at the moment.

[happyman]

My bored 107"  to 117" has been running great. About 1500 miles on it and has been using zero oil. Just checked my oil level after a 1/2 hour high rpm highway blast and I'm down well over a quart. No doubt it is sitting in the lower end sump.  Not very happy at the moment.

Welcome to the nightmare!!  not funny.

[VDeuce]

My 120 sumped. Installed Feuling race pump and have not been able to get it to sump since. More money but I think it'll keep the motor alive.

[happyman]

My 120 sumped. Installed Feuling race pump and have not been able to get it to sump since. More money but I think it'll keep the motor alive.

you by chance  have oil cooled, instead of twin cooled ??

[Don D]

My 120 sumped. Installed Feuling race pump and have not been able to get it to sump since. More money but I think it'll keep the motor alive.

Check the leakdown.

[VDeuce]

My 120 sumped. Installed Feuling race pump and have not been able to get it to sump since. More money but I think it'll keep the motor alive.

you by chance  have oil cooled, instead of twin cooled ??

Yes, oil cooled.

[BigMo]

Im putting the Feuling pump and plate in my Road King oil cooled....hoping to alleviate this condition. Soon to find out, no signs of it so far. Also gonna use S&S lifters, said to help w oil flow....

[Heatwave3]

I have a 2017 liquid cooled M8 CVO Limited. I have had 4 engines in the bike, installed and replaced under warranty. The first 3 sumped with stage IV kit installed. The last engine was built at the factory as a Stage IV 117. My dealer says that based on the engine case #s, he believes its a 2019 engine. No sumping so far after 1500 miles.

[Txwezl]

Last time I checked my twin cooled M8 I got 8.5 ounces. Never had any of the problems other people have with overheating and destroying the motor

[Txwezl]

I checked mine last week for the first time. It had about 8 1/2 ounces in the sump but I've not had any problems to this point.

so now the question is how many oz. is still in  there after you check how many oz.  the way they are checked now?  we know there is a actually a  drain plug below that location where its being checked from that will have 8 oz in it also.  so now how much oil can you have in the motor before your dragging the lower end through it and losing some hp and tq you paid dearly for?  or how much does it take to after a oeriod of time will be bearing puke and leave you holding the bag?  or just flat assed smoke the moter completely and ruin your vacation  or a nice ride on the weekend ? just never know

I removed the plug from the bottom of the crankcase to measure it not the crank sensor

[happyman]

Last time I checked my twin cooled M8 I got 8.5 ounces. Never had any of the problems other people have with overheating and destroying the motor

count your blessing then. 

[HV]

Had a 2018  CVO 117 with stage IV   Sumped...( over 2 Qts in the Base...Bike actually locked up ...) He was travelling to Laconia...the shop replaced the Oil Pump and it seems OK now

[Txwezl]

Last time I checked my twin cooled M8 I got 8.5 ounces. Never had any of the problems other people have with overheating and destroying the motor

count your blessing then.

I'm still going to change the pump when S&S releases theirs next month.

[1FSTRK]

Last time I checked my twin cooled M8 I got 8.5 ounces. Never had any of the problems other people have with overheating and destroying the motor

count your blessing then.

I'm still going to change the pump when S&S releases theirs next month.

Next month may come early this year. 

[Eccool]

I stopped in the dealer on Thursday.  They had a 18 CVO Roadglide on the lift, stripped down to the cases.  On Saturday, I talked to one of my coworkers who said the tech told him the bike sumped and totally destroyed the engine.  Getting a new engine under warranty.

[BigT]

I was riding around last night going through the gears shifting around 5 grand but never any long periods of high rpm and it sumped. Felt like I was towing a heavy trailer. It was pretty hot out which seems to be a contributing factor both times it happened to me along with the higher rpm. I tried letting it cool down for awhile then letting it idle for a couple of minutes hoping the oil would get sucked back but no luck. Oil was still down about qt and a half.  Sucks to have a 130hp bike that you have to shift at 3,000 rpm.   I was told Drag won't have the S&S pumps for a couple more weeks.

[HV]

I was riding around last night going through the gears shifting around 5 grand but never any long periods of high rpm and it sumped. Felt like I was towing a heavy trailer. It was pretty hot out which seems to be a contributing factor both times it happened to me along with the higher rpm. I tried letting it cool down for awhile then letting it idle for a couple of minutes hoping the oil would get sucked back but no luck. Oil was still down about qt and a half.  Sucks to have a 130hp bike that you have to shift at 3,000 rpm.   I was told Drag won't have the S&S pumps for a couple more weeks.

Pull your Crank Sensor and see  if more then 6 OZ comes out    be interesting to see how close to 2 QTs it is

[BigT]

I did pull the sensor and the oil came pouring out. I didn't measure but it was well over a quart. The last time it happend I didn't really notice the drag on the motor and was just checking the oil level after a long day of riding and the oil was down more than a qt  on the stick. I started it up the next morning and it was sucked out back into the tank. 

[Eccool]

I was riding around last night going through the gears shifting around 5 grand but never any long periods of high rpm and it sumped. Felt like I was towing a heavy trailer. It was pretty hot out which seems to be a contributing factor both times it happened to me along with the higher rpm. I tried letting it cool down for awhile then letting it idle for a couple of minutes hoping the oil would get sucked back but no luck. Oil was still down about qt and a half.  Sucks to have a 130hp bike that you have to shift at 3,000 rpm.   I was told Drag won't have the S&S pumps for a couple more weeks.

HV or anyone else that works in a dealership, do you guys have any idea of what the actual percentage of bikes are that have the sumping problem?  I know it must be small, because everyone that I talk to seems to love their M8.  Thanks!


Pull your Crank Sensor and see  if more then 6 OZ comes out    be interesting to see how close to 2 QTs it is

[happyman]

I did pull the sensor and the oil came pouring out. I didn't measure but it was well over a quart. The last time it happend I didn't really notice the drag on the motor and was just checking the oil level after a long day of riding and the oil was down more than a qt  on the stick. I started it up the next morning and it was sucked out back into the tank.

that motor is only going to take so much and its burns itself down big time .  one minute you riding  and next minute you calling a tow.  it is what it is, and yet all this time and no apparent fix I am aware of. just keep tossing the same  junk at the bike and hope you go away and yes that will happen too. many have  multiple failures and I can vouch for it/  you do not make this up . cause there is nothing funny about  wasting  two summers and plans for good long trips .  sad state of affairs to put it honestly and bluntly.

   

[HV]

I did pull the sensor and the oil came pouring out. I didn't measure but it was well over a quart. The last time it happend I didn't really notice the drag on the motor and was just checking the oil level after a long day of riding and the oil was down more than a qt  on the stick. I started it up the next morning and it was sucked out back into the tank.

that motor is only going to take so much and its burns itself down big time .  one minute you riding  and next minute you calling a tow.  it is what it is, and yet all this time and no apparent fix I am aware of. just keep tossing the same  junk at the bike and hope you go away and yes that will happen too. many have  multiple failures and I can vouch for it/  you do not make this up . cause there is nothing funny about  wasting  two summers and plans for good long trips .  sad state of affairs to put it honestly and bluntly.

Agree.....seen one sumping that ate a crank......did the sumping make the crank go o the crank cause it to sump ?   bottom line is an expensive Bike is now Useless 

[happyman]

I did pull the sensor and the oil came pouring out. I didn't measure but it was well over a quart. The last time it happend I didn't really notice the drag on the motor and was just checking the oil level after a long day of riding and the oil was down more than a qt  on the stick. I started it up the next morning and it was sucked out back into the tank.

that motor is only going to take so much and its burns itself down big time .  one minute you riding  and next minute you calling a tow.  it is what it is, and yet all this time and no apparent fix I am aware of. just keep tossing the same  junk at the bike and hope you go away and yes that will happen too. many have  multiple failures and I can vouch for it/  you do not make this up . cause there is nothing funny about  wasting  two summers and plans for good long trips .  sad state of affairs to put it honestly and bluntly.

When this  and a couple other issues happen at least 8 times you know you are in trouble and  so far  HD obviously has no fix and that is the  part that should concern everyone.  what happens when warranty is gone  and the bikes takes out another motor, and another and another, and on and on. who can or feels  they should have to spend  their hard earned money. I know of no one who should get hosed like that and obviously its legal, or ok  for a company to do this  to consumers
?       


Agree.....seen one sumping that ate a crank......did the sumping make the crank go o the crank cause it to sump ?   bottom line is an expensive Bike is now Useless 

[KTA600]

Happy happy happy at 6600  so far and it was built 3/17.....sold dec 17. Only put 3.25 oil in it at service as I have run ever MOCO bike since 73 on the low mark on stick if it had one.But check the crank case after running 75-90 mph for 1300 miles 2days. 2-3 oz in crank case. 
But I'll stick and S&S pump in it fri....  Sure can't hurt....better than sitting around bitching about a pile of motor installs at a dealer.  Cheap insurance..  Blow it sky high ? sure as hell won't be going to a dealer to patch it.  Not many dealers out there that should even be cracking a motor open when they can't get tires rite. Lol
But I guess misery loves company...   Wonder how the rest of the motor is gonna last.  I personal have seen 58k 67 k 36 k and 34k ones that have never been back to a dealer yet....well the 58k is now as he traded it on a 18 other day. 

[happyman]

Happy happy happy at 6600  so far and it was built 3/17.....sold dec 17. Only put 3.25 oil in it at service as I have run ever MOCO bike since 73 on the low mark on stick if it had one.But check the crank case after running 75-90 mph for 1300 miles 2days. 2-3 oz in crank case. 
But I'll stick and S&S pump in it fri....  Sure can't hurt....better than sitting around bitching about a pile of motor installs at a dealer.  Cheap insurance..  Blow it sky high ? sure as hell won't be going to a dealer to patch it.  Not many dealers out there that should even be cracking a motor open when they can't get tires rite. Lol
But I guess misery loves company...   Wonder how the rest of the motor is gonna last.  I personal have seen 58k 67 k 36 k and 34k ones that have never been back to a dealer yet....well the 58k is now as he traded it on a 18 other day.

your fortuante to say the least.

[KTA600]

Happy happy happy at 6600  so far and it was built 3/17.....sold dec 17. Only put 3.25 oil in it at service as I have run ever MOCO bike since 73 on the low mark on stick if it had one.But check the crank case after running 75-90 mph for 1300 miles 2days. 2-3 oz in crank case. 
But I'll stick and S&S pump in it fri....  Sure can't hurt....better than sitting around bitching about a pile of motor installs at a dealer.  Cheap insurance..  Blow it sky high ? sure as hell won't be going to a dealer to patch it.  Not many dealers out there that should even be cracking a motor open when they can't get tires rite. Lol
But I guess misery loves company...   Wonder how the rest of the motor is gonna last.  I personal have seen 58k 67 k 36 k and 34k ones that have never been back to a dealer yet....well the 58k is now as he traded it on a 18 other day.

your fortuante to say the least.

Nope ...just realistic. I usually fix much larger problems.  2 cyl dry sump over grown tractor motor...Peanuts ....but than again I just fix "Potty mouth" better than I type...... Pretty sure it's only bout 7-8 Internet warriors having the major problems...the rest of us just clickin off miles...lmao

[happyman]

Happy happy happy at 6600  so far and it was built 3/17.....sold dec 17. Only put 3.25 oil in it at service as I have run ever MOCO bike since 73 on the low mark on stick if it had one.But check the crank case after running 75-90 mph for 1300 miles 2days. 2-3 oz in crank case. 
But I'll stick and S&S pump in it fri....  Sure can't hurt....better than sitting around bitching about a pile of motor installs at a dealer.  Cheap insurance..  Blow it sky high ? sure as hell won't be going to a dealer to patch it.  Not many dealers out there that should even be cracking a motor open when they can't get tires rite. Lol
But I guess misery loves company...   Wonder how the rest of the motor is gonna last.  I personal have seen 58k 67 k 36 k and 34k ones that have never been back to a dealer yet....well the 58k is now as he traded it on a 18 other day.

your fortuante to say the least.

Nope ...just realistic. I usually fix much larger problems.  2 cyl dry sump over grown tractor motor...Peanuts ....but than again I just fix "Potty mouth" better than I type...... Pretty sure it's only bout 7-8 Internet warriors having the major problems...the rest of us just clickin off miles...lmao

no bitching going on that I have seen , lots of people having issues and multiple issues on the same bike after the so called fix. the fix should not be coming out of the peoples pocket. all the down time with a high priced bike to start with. nahh its not bitching at all not even close. there are issues and it is what its and the fix should never be on the back of the customer and the hardship, . have seen dealers make the claim they never seen the sumping issues.  yet in talking to people  that bought bikes from that dealership  can show you the paperwork, of issues   you know there is a lot of deception out there. yes I know it for a fact.  we know  HD tosses the same parts at the bike with the same results over and over and certain l hope they do have the real fix. and should not cost the owner of the bike a  penny. internet warriors  bs is just what it is,, its and insult to customers who expect a good product for the huge amount of  $$ they often times had to finance to get the bike and yet the bike is in the shop getting repaired.. no  to dismiss a real issue is not going to happen no matter    what. too many bike have and do have the problem  like it or not its real and denial is not going to change a fact.       

[Reddog74usa]

 

[PoorUB]

That is why I ride a 2016. With all the talk of the new engine in 2017 I did not want one. It may be the best motorcycle to ever come out of Millwaukee, but given the Twin Cam's track record I would rather have a TC than a M8. If I was one of the owners of M8 that was sumping, or transferring oil from the tranny to the primary it would be ugly. I would spend every Saturday parked in the street in front the dealer with my "lemon" on a trailer with a huge sign and hand out flyers to everyone that drove in explaining why I can ride my $30,000 motorcycle.

[happyman]

That is why I ride a 2016. With all the talk of the new engine in 2017 I did not want one. It may be the best motorcycle to ever come out of Millwaukee, but given the Twin Cam's track record I would rather have a TC than a M8. If I was one of the owners of M8 that was sumping, or transferring oil from the tranny to the primary it would be ugly. I would spend every Saturday parked in the street in front the dealer with my "lemon" on a trailer with a huge sign and hand out flyers to everyone that drove in explaining why I can ride my $30,000 motorcycle.

you would  be in prison more than likely, but i like the idea.  the lemon law is not or is not in many states so what to do then for many?    if people do a class action  the attorneys get the money and your get what your already getting!

[KTA600]

That is why I ride a 2016. With all the talk of the new engine in 2017 I did not want one. It may be the best motorcycle to ever come out of Millwaukee, but given the Twin Cam's track record I would rather have a TC than a M8. If I was one of the owners of M8 that was sumping, or transferring oil from the tranny to the primary it would be ugly. I would spend every Saturday parked in the street in front the dealer with my "lemon" on a trailer with a huge sign and hand out flyers to everyone that drove in explaining why I can ride my $30,000 motorcycle.

Probably a good idea too keep the 16
You would be wasting a lot of sats as way more satisfied than a what 25 unsatified internet warriors .
You have a good piece. Ride is great.  Motor is simple and tested.
But I think they have a tech for twinks....... this ain't it
Lol.  Off to empty another tank of gas!!!lol

[Reddog74usa]

"Probably a good idea too keep the 16
You would be wasting a lot of sats as way more satisfied than a what 25 unsatified internet warriors .
You have a good piece. Ride is great.  Motor is simple and tested.
But I think they have a tech for twinks....... this ain't it
Lol.  Off to empty another tank of gas!!!lol"


EVEN RAY CHARLES COULD SEE YOUR A TROLL..........

[happyman]

"Probably a good idea too keep the 16
You would be wasting a lot of sats as way more satisfied than a what 25 unsatified internet warriors .
You have a good piece. Ride is great.  Motor is simple and tested.
But I think they have a tech for twinks....... this ain't it
Lol.  Off to empty another tank of gas!!!lol"


EVEN RAY CHARLES COULD SEE YOUR A TROLL..........

Haaaaaaa dat funny

[PoorUB]

you would  be in prison more than likely, but i like the idea.  the lemon law is not or is not in many states so what to do then for many?    if people do a class action  the attorneys get the money and your get what your already getting!

Why would I be in prison? Just state the facts, don't slander anyone and let people know there is an issue with the motorcycle that can not be repaired, plus it has affected others too. Just check the Harley groups on the internet.

[happyman]

you would  be in prison more than likely, but i like the idea.  the lemon law is not or is not in many states so what to do then for many?    if people do a class action  the attorneys get the money and your get what your already getting!

Why would I be in prison? Just state the facts, don't slander anyone and let people know there is an issue with the motorcycle that can not be repaired, plus it has affected others too. Just check the Harley groups on the internet.

did i miss something?  i did not see any slander but maybe i missed it.   

[happyman]

Last time I checked my twin cooled M8 I got 8.5 ounces. Never had any of the problems other people have with overheating and destroying the motor

your very fortunate.  too bad everyone is not so lucky several times over.