Sumping issues solved

[Vision]

I've been following this thread closely.   Help me out a little here...how does running the oil level 1 qt low stop it from sumping? 

Just trying to learn here....  Thanks

I have built and tuned several 124" M8's and all but one sumped during tuning. What I noticed is that once they did, I would pull the dip stick to make sure they had oil and complete the tune without sumping again.

That's when I deliberately set mine at 3.5 qts and ran it like Hoss running away from a Road Glide fairing and it has not sumped. I have tried repeatedly and all is well.

Where does the oil register on the dipstick when full hot on the Kickstand with 3.5 quarts?

[Durwood]

I've been following this thread closely.   Help me out a little here...how does running the oil level 1 qt low stop it from sumping? 

Just trying to learn here....  Thanks

I have built and tuned several 124" M8's and all but one sumped during tuning. What I noticed is that once they did, I would pull the dip stick to make sure they had oil and complete the tune without sumping again.

That's when I deliberately set mine at 3.5 qts and ran it like Hoss running away from a Road Glide fairing and it has not sumped. I have tried repeatedly and all is well.

Where does the oil register on the dipstick when full hot on the Kickstand with 3.5 quarts?

Right at the bottom of the lowest add mark.

[kd]

There's generally 1/2" difference between upright and on the side stand.  It's easy to confirm by doing 2 each hot and cold checks.

[Hossamania]

I just saw a video posted by a vendor here that shows the problem with the oilers. The screws are self tapping, but the holes are not quite drilled deep enough, or it may be that they will not tighten enough when installed with the oilers in place, much like the old problem with the compensator bolts being slightly too long.
The solution he used was to remove the oiler, reinstall the screws, and gently seat and unseat them a few times to get them to bite just a little deeper. That, and a slightly thicker Cometic gasket solves the problem.
Durwood, nice analogy of hard running comparing it to me running from a RoadGlide fairing! That had me laughing!

[Hossamania]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/566029816933140/permalink/1138202416382541?sfns=mo


Look at me posting links! Hope this is ok here. If not, I apologize, and it can be pulled.

[SixShooter14]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/566029816933140/permalink/1138202416382541?sfns=mo


Look at me posting links! Hope this is ok here. If not, I apologize, and it can be pulled.

wow! good post Hoss, and GMR

[FSG]

Hoss   

there's more to it as well, being self tapping screws they displace material back toward the flat surface so the flat surface around the hole becomes mushroomed out, too easy for the gasket to bottom to the mushroom top and still leak

better to bottom out the screw then slightly countersink the hole to remove the mushroom 

[SixShooter14]

so, aside from mfg cost. Why not just tap the hole? Or drill it a little deeper? or use a slightly shorter screw?

[Durwood]

I have had them sump after addressing the oiler issue, which I do whenever the cylinders are off.

Oil pump doesn't matter, with or without updated cover with seal or S&S, they still sump.

But once the oil level dropped the sumping stopped. This is on 8 different bikes that I built and tuned.

[JMHD]

I have had them sump after addressing the oiler issue, which I do whenever the cylinders are off.

Oil pump doesn't matter, with or without updated cover with seal or S&S, they still sump.

But once the oil level dropped the sumping stopped. This is on 8 different bikes that I built and tuned.

A friend of mine had sumping on a very long trip and once it started it kept recurring , he said the only way to get it to stop to get home was running the oil about a quart lower. Another case to confirm your findings Durwood.

[Hossamania]

For anyone interested, GMR has posted some other videos on his vendor page as well.

[Durwood]

I have had them sump after addressing the oiler issue, which I do whenever the cylinders are off.

Oil pump doesn't matter, with or without updated cover with seal or S&S, they still sump.

But once the oil level dropped the sumping stopped. This is on 8 different bikes that I built and tuned.

A friend of mine had sumping on a very long trip and once it started it kept recurring , he said the only way to get it to stop to get home was running the oil about a quart lower. Another case to confirm your findings Durwood.

[VDeuce]

What I'd like to know is how some of the shops that do a lot of larger builds are claiming that they have never had a single one sump. Are they all running the oil level low?

[SixShooter14]

What I'd like to know is how some of the shops that do a lot of larger builds are claiming that they have never had a single one sump. Are they all running the oil level low?

perhaps they don't look for it.

[cherryseeg2]

What I'd like to know is how some of the shops that do a lot of larger builds are claiming that they have never had a single one sump. Are they all running the oil level low?

perhaps they don't look for it.

You don't have to look for it, trust me you know when it happens. 

[cbumdumb]

Especially when one sumps in first gear leaving a gas station merging in to traffic. Not freaking fun.

[rich1]

Hey Durwood. How common a problem is leaking oil jets? Once Harley increased the torque spec did that help with the later builds? Thanks.

[Durwood]

Hey Durwood. How common a problem is leaking oil jets? Once Harley increased the torque spec did that help with the later builds? Thanks.

It's hit and miss, I tighten the screws a tad even on the ones that don't move.

[richbiker]

Hi Durwood,   Have you experimented with any of the "ventilators" out there yet? just curious if they help with the sumping and still maintain "factory oil levels"

[Durwood]

Hi Durwood,   Have you experimented with any of the "ventilators" out there yet? just curious if they help with the sumping and still maintain "factory oil levels"

They will still sump with a vented dip stick. The only thing I have found that actually stops it is oil level. The 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS is from my bike with the OE, non-vented dip stick.

[Prostock]

We have also tried the vented cap with no success. 

[Deye76]

We have also tried the vented cap with no success.

Are these vented caps like the one A1 cycle is selling?

[VDeuce]

Ok guys, don't beat me up for this, but...

I have a 2018 RGS with a 120" I built. It sumped once. I installed the Feuling race pump and plate, no other changes. I have not sumped since, no matter how I ride it, for 8K miles (high load, high RPM, varying altitudes, 2-up, wide open throttle, you name it).

I'm not saying it's a fix, nor am I trying to sell product or convince anyone. Just trying like everyone else to figure it out and prevent it on my bike. I also understand neither Feuling or S&S will guaranty this solves sumping. Perhaps it is some odd combination of issues but for me it has solved it (for now).

I am interested in the venting ideas, but see some of you report they have not helped.

[Durwood]

I was about to pull the trigger on a Feuling pump and plate after having bikes with the other available offerings sump.

Then I noticed on all the bikes that sumped, once the level was down I could complete the tune without it ever sumping again.

That's when I tried the lower oil level on my bike and haven't been able to make it sump.

VDeuce, your experience with Feuling is what was leading me that way, and like you I am not selling anything, just sharing what I have been witnessing. Glad the Feuling worked out for you, and curious where your oil level is on the stick?

[Sunny Jim]

I was about to pull the trigger on a Feuling pump and plate after having bikes with the other available offerings sump.

Then I noticed on all the bikes that sumped, once the level was down I could complete the tune without it ever sumping again.

That's when I tried the lower oil level on my bike and haven't been able to make it sump.

VDeuce, your experience with Feuling is what was leading me that way, and like you I am not selling anything, just sharing what I have been witnessing. Glad the Feuling worked out for you, and curious where your oil level is on the stick?

I believed even Tom Reiser is recommending lowering the tide on the oil level
For M8s . From memory he suggests 4 marks down from top - jiffy stand level, mark it with a hacksaw ' unquote.