March 28, 2024, 01:47:11 PM

News:


Sumping issues solved

Started by BigT, September 24, 2018, 04:13:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

PoorUB

Hey Ron, sorry to burst you bubble, but B&S had a metal breather with a plastic disc for a check valve for decades! Funny thing is they never failed.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

rbabos

September 28, 2018, 08:41:01 AM #51 Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 08:50:01 AM by rbabos
Quote from: PoorUB on September 28, 2018, 08:24:16 AM
Hey Ron, sorry to burst you bubble, but B&S had a metal breather with a plastic disc for a check valve for decades! Funny thing is they never failed.
Sure. Plastic grade and design all play a factor. As mentioned by one, if you can blow into the engine they are defective. Size wise they don't need to be big, like even dime size per head is plenty but they must seal in both heads or the whole purpose of controlling a low case pressure is lost. This is done after a few revolutions of the crank. From there on it's a low outflow from blowby.  Besides the holes in the breather bolts are the bottle neck, not the breather valves . Perfect sealing of the breather discs themselves as you know is an absolute must.
Ron

rbabos

Quote from: VDeuce on September 28, 2018, 07:01:29 AM
There have been some mention of the EPA putting a restriction on breather size, but that could be conjecture. What we do know is they are very small for the largest engine HD has ever produced.
I'd say. They could mandate where the breathing enters as in where it's been for years but in order to limit the amount, this would be in the form of reducing blowby from poor ring seal or warped cyls. Something air cooled has always had a harder time with.
Ron

PoorUB

B&S had a spec for engine vacuum while the engine was running. I forget the number, but I remember having an oil fill plug drilled for a hose nipple and a water tube manometer to check them.

Does HD have a spec for it? :hyst:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

klammer76


Ohio HD

They vent by way of the push rod tubes into the heads, pressurizing the rocker box, then goes through the vents into the air cleaner and TB.

klammer76

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 28, 2018, 09:34:24 AM
They vent by way of the push rod tubes into the heads, pressurizing the rocker box, then goes through the vents into the air cleaner and TB.
Thanks Ohio.

Helmwurst

Ok, I pulled the allen head plug from my case tonight and got this. I am hoping it was the right plug 1/4 " size allen wrench is what size it is. I have not measured it yet , but it appears to be about 14 oz. plus. Also, when I loosened the oil dipstick , more came rushing out, so not sure what that is all about. Any help here would be appreciated.

Helmwurst

Sorry , picture did not load. Not sure how to fix that issue today.

hogpipes1

Quote from: Helmwurst on September 30, 2018, 05:21:21 PM
Ok, I pulled the allen head plug from my case tonight and got this. I am hoping it was the right plug 1/4 " size allen wrench is what size it is. I have not measured it yet , but it appears to be about 14 oz. plus. Also, when I loosened the oil dipstick , more came rushing out, so not sure what that is all about. Any help here would be appreciated.

Dipstick loose - air in & oil out . Just venting

Helmwurst

That's what I was thinking too. I went back out in the garage later and took out the allen plug again and loosened dipstick and got about 2 more ounces out of the case.

Reddog74usa

Man that's horrible. I hope they fix these things for the riders that stepped up in good faith and bought these things. I'm thinkin it won't be to long before the courts are involved.
RIDE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT

No Cents

  In the last week I have read on FB that two more M8's have quit running on the road leaving them stranded and both bikes had no oil on the dip sticks when they checked them.   :scratch:  They were on FB asking for help as to why this happened to their bikes.
  I wonder what those two guys would of found if they drained the sumps.  :nix:
There is definitely an issue going on here and you know damn good and well the MoCo has to know about it.
   I'm with you Reddog...if they don't get this straightened out pretty quick I can see the MoCo's lawyers getting very busy in the near future.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

cbumdumb

Mine sumped right after take off in first still leaned over taking off damn near drop it . It is now a safety issue.

Grayrider

My 18' Heritage sumped one time with about 100 miles on it. Loss of power but got me home. Thought it was a sump but didn't know much about it.
Next day started and ran fine. Have about 3000 miles now and has not done it since. Did the 1000 mile service at the dealer. No mention.
Have done city as well as 80mph highway since.
So, what are odds of it doing it again? If oil has sumped, one time like in my case,  Has it been sucked back into the system?
Am about to do an oil change. Where is the set screw I should take out to see if there is any oil there. Or is crankhsaft sensor the place?
Drain oil then check the set screw?

I'm Sexy – I Ride a Harley – I can't Help It!

BigT

I checked the amount of oil in the sump again with a heat soaked motor, EITMS kicking at lights, and did a prolonged high rpm run before checking. Less than an ounce came out. Im confident that the latest seal on the oil pump is the fix.

sandrooney

I have an 18 Heritage and all seems good so far. 2000 miles. Haven't read of any softails sumping till now.
Are you sure it sumped ?
Patience is such a waste of time .

Helmwurst

Quote from: BigT on October 08, 2018, 03:52:59 AM
I checked the amount of oil in the sump again with a heat soaked motor, EITMS kicking at lights, and did a prolonged high rpm run before checking. Less than an ounce came out. Im confident that the latest seal on the oil pump is the fix.
Well that appears to be some good news. My bike is headed to the dealer today to check on this upgrade and 5000 mile service. I was going to do the service myself, but he sumping issue came up, so I decided to let them look into it. Keep us posted on your results.

Grayrider

Based on what I have been reading about sumping it sounds like that is what happened.
Loss of power and couldn't get the revs up. Didn't notice any high heat, but it runs hot anyway. 
Got home and it was fine next day. Was ready to call the dealer to come and get it, but ran fine.
Not sure what else it would have been. Possibly something in the fuel delivery.
Been good since. So, maybe.
I'm Sexy – I Ride a Harley – I can't Help It!

sandrooney

Patience is such a waste of time .

Smarty

Well, got the M8 back together with the S&S oil pump and cam plate, RS-468 cam, heavy breather, and tuned with a PowerVision. Worked over the breather valves a little. It's not sumping but it's just a matter of time I feel. Every time I ride then kill the motor, it almost gives a farting sound, real juicy sounding. Next I'm trying removing the rocker box umbrella valves/vent valves(plastic at that) and vent externally with a automotive pcv valve. I feel that will give it a lot more breathing capabilities and solve the build up of pressure. I'll keep you posted. By the way, the cam and the Ful-sac 2 1/4" baffles with the entrance to the right muffler hole sawed out to 2" really made a difference in the performance. Also knocked out the cat and cleaned it up along with the crossover pipe sticking into the header.
Suspended by Smarty
Carol Burks

Helmwurst

Quote from: Helmwurst on October 08, 2018, 05:13:06 AM
Quote from: BigT on October 08, 2018, 03:52:59 AM
I checked the amount of oil in the sump again with a heat soaked motor, EITMS kicking at lights, and did a prolonged high rpm run before checking. Less than an ounce came out. Im confident that the latest seal on the oil pump is the fix.
Well that appears to be some good news. My bike is headed to the dealer today to check on this upgrade and 5000 mile service. I was going to do the service myself, but he sumping issue came up, so I decided to let them look into it. Keep us posted on your results.
Well, the service call today was very disappointing !! Not enough oil came out of the "crank position hole to warrant any changes internally to the engine on the sumping. I told them I was not going to add any more oil to it if it keeps going down on the stick!! That is BS and if a motor is sucking down 1 to 1 1/2 quarts every 4000 miles, and it is not smoking or wetting the plugs, it is going somewhere. They also said drive it another 1000 miles and bring it back in for a another look.. Oh yea, right ! Run it on the fricking dyno and check it. I guess I will buy the 30.00 fix from the parts counter and fix it myself. It is a least worth a try. Ride it long enough and it will either run out of warranty, or blow up because the oil gets sucked and does not return to the pan until you let it sit in the garage and idle for 10 mins.  :wtf:

ekb55

Quote from: Grayrider on October 07, 2018, 05:55:33 AM
My 18' Heritage sumped one time with about 100 miles on it. Loss of power but got me home. Thought it was a sump but didn't know much about it.
Next day started and ran fine. Have about 3000 miles now and has not done it since. Did the 1000 mile service at the dealer. No mention.
Have done city as well as 80mph highway since.
So, what are odds of it doing it again? If oil has sumped, one time like in my case,  Has it been sucked back into the system?
Am about to do an oil change. Where is the set screw I should take out to see if there is any oil there. Or is crankhsaft sensor the place?
Drain oil then check the set screw?

Ride the bike, don't worry about it.

Reddog74usa

Yep if I were an M8 owner I'd keep it stock and ride the snot out of em till they blow and make em install new engines till this get made right. This should be the moco's problem not yours  :angry:
RIDE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT

sandrooney

Even if you are having no issues?
Patience is such a waste of time .