camplate/pump...Thayer vs S&S blue

[HighLiner]

Always heard good things about Thayer but how does the s&s blue compare?

[planemech]

I don't know about the S&S parts but my experience with Dan is that if you have problems he will go out of his way to get you fixed up. Im interested to see what some of the replys will be on this subject.

Always heard good things about Thayer but how does the s&s blue compare?

[Nastytls]

I have the Thayer plate/pump.

I'd rather support the small businessman than the company that shamelessly stole his idea.

[turboprop]

I have used both plates several times. Emotions and loyalties aside, the differences are pretty obvious just form looking at the top level specs for each, ie one is billet, the other is forged. One has an externally adjustable pressure release valve, the other does not. Right out of the box the forged plate has much less leakage than the billet plate (measured with air, not oil). Unfortunately, too many of the responses here will be from people either repeating what they have read online or based on emotion. I suggest you look at the published information from both companies and form your own opinion.

[BVHOG]

They both work well, Thayer pump has smaller gears but still more than capable, The blue has an inlet screen to keep big trash out of the scavenge side and an adjustable relief valve.  I have used both and they both work well.  Emotions aside the real story is pretty obvious. One has a patent number on it and the blue one has a part number.   That makes one an innovator and one a thief.

[No Cents]

They both work well, Thayer pump has smaller gears but still more than capable, The blue has an inlet screen to keep big trash out of the scavenge side and an adjustable relief valve.  I have used both and they both work well.  Emotions aside the real story is pretty obvious. One has a patent number on it and the blue one has a part number.   That makes one an innovator and one a thief.

        

[Deye76]

"one an innovator and one a thief."

When STD, S&S, House of Horsepower, Delkron, came out with alternative crankcases, all could be considered thieves, but welcome to anyone who wasn't satisfied with the marginal innovator. Just sayin'.

[BVHOG]

"one an innovator and one a thief."

When STD, S&S, House of Horsepower, Delkron, came out with alternative crankcases, all could be considered thieves, but welcome to anyone who wasn't satisfied with the marginal innovator. Just sayin'.

So you consider the Thayer plate/pump marginal ?   So tell us why

[Deye76]

"So you consider the Thayer plate/pump marginal ?"

Not at all, but many consider the shovel & evo factory crankcases marginal when increasing power.

[prodrag1320]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

[rbabos]

They both work well, Thayer pump has smaller gears but still more than capable, The blue has an inlet screen to keep big trash out of the scavenge side and an adjustable relief valve.  I have used both and they both work well.  Emotions aside the real story is pretty obvious. One has a patent number on it and the blue one has a part number.   That makes one an innovator and one a thief.

Does that actually happen?
Ron

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

S&S (other than being sold and bought back decades ago) was the original aftermarket go to for harley Davidson Parts and Accessories. S&S is an excellent retailer.

That Being Said, necessity is the Mother of Invention. That, in and of itself is commendable.

I have used both Theyer and S&S. Both have positive and negatives from my view point. However, they manufacture for the Masses and not just me.

In this case, research is both your friend and answer to your question. In the end, you alone will make the decision.

Often questions like this can be summed up in a comparison: Which is better? Chevy or Ford? More opinionated than factual in any response. Those who prefer S&S will likely tell you S&S. And, visa-versa.

[1FSTRK]

I have used both Theyer and S&S. Both have positive and negatives from my view point. 
.

So from your point of view what specifically are the positives and negatives of each one?

[No Cents]

I have used both Theyer and S&S. Both have positive and negatives from my view point. 
.

So from your point of view what specifically are the positives and negatives of each one?

   

[Don D]

I have used and sold both. How can we critique two products that are both very functional, and high quality. I think the S&S may have one small pro. It holds stronger oil pressure at idle. Lifters like this. So buy your conscience if you want but understand there is room at the top of the heap for two (or more)

[1FSTRK]

I have used and sold both. How can we critique two products that are both very functional, and high quality. I think the S&S may have one small pro. It holds stronger oil pressure at idle. Lifters like this. So buy your conscience if you want but understand there is room at the top of the heap for two (or more)

So in a back to back test with a Thayer the S&S had more pressure at an idle, how many psi?

[koko3052]

I would also like to know this as I have 20 psi at idle & 50 psi at cruise running Castrol 20/50 and at 180 degree oil temp., with standard HD  '07 pump & camplate.

[Buglet]

    If you really want to know which is better I would call both Thayer and S&S and see what they have to say about there pump, I think they can give you the best answers. Then you can decide from there.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Both work fine, and have used both on many occasions, but I do believe that in spite of the large business relationship with S&S, they should be mailing royalty checks to the Corfu, NY address.

[turboprop]

FWIW - Ron Dickey and Dan Baisley set a world record at Bonneville using the oem pump and plate that came from the factory in '02 Dyna donor bike.

[koko3052]

    If you really want to know which is better I would call both Thayer and S&S and see what they have to say about there pump, I think they can give you the best answers. Then you can decide from there.

.

And after those conversations.....the very same question will be asked!

[turboprop]

This subject might as well be put in the same 'taste great/less filing' category as oil and TC lifters. Maybe have a new member dust it off by asking the same question every six months or so.

Fueling and a some other companies have been very vocal about proclaiming that using their cam plates will result in better oiling, lower temps, etc. But i have never seen anything close to a clinical A-B-C comparison that supports their claim. Not that I give a "Potty mouth", but without clinical numbers to support it , those claims are little more than marketing hype that have been validated by consumers claiming that what they bought is the best. Anyways, very little technical substance in this thread. Probably time to put it away for six months.

[Don D]

So a 3 stage pump is of no benefit? FWIW Dan Thayer has also run Bonneville or supported an entry, not sure, and he told me they run 32lbs pressure.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

FWIW - Ron Dickey and Dan Baisley set a world record at Bonneville using the oem pump and plate that came from the factory in '02 Dyna donor bike.

And yes, there is a lot of good to be said, about the OEM plate, and OEM pump.

[Hossamania]

FWIW - Ron Dickey and Dan Baisley set a world record at Bonneville using the oem pump and plate that came from the factory in '02 Dyna donor bike.

And yes, there is a lot of good to be said, about the OEM plate, and OEM pump.

Mine has held up for 112,000 miles so far.

[Admiral Akbar]

This subject might as well be put in the same 'taste great/less filing' category as oil and TC lifters. Maybe have a new member dust it off by asking the same question every six months or so.

Fueling and a some other companies have been very vocal about proclaiming that using their cam plates will result in better oiling, lower temps, etc. But i have never seen anything close to a clinical A-B-C comparison that supports their claim. Not that I give a "Potty mouth", but without clinical numbers to support it , those claims are little more than marketing hype that have been validated by consumers claiming that what they bought is the best. Anyways, very little technical substance in this thread. Probably time to put it away for six months.

Good stuff Ed..   Anyone know why the oil temps are cooler?   It's not because the motor runs cooler.

[turboprop]

This subject might as well be put in the same 'taste great/less filing' category as oil and TC lifters. Maybe have a new member dust it off by asking the same question every six months or so.

Fueling and a some other companies have been very vocal about proclaiming that using their cam plates will result in better oiling, lower temps, etc. But i have never seen anything close to a clinical A-B-C comparison that supports their claim. Not that I give a "Potty mouth", but without clinical numbers to support it , those claims are little more than marketing hype that have been validated by consumers claiming that what they bought is the best. Anyways, very little technical substance in this thread. Probably time to put it away for six months.

Good stuff Ed..   Anyone know why the oil temps are cooler?   It's not because the motor runs cooler.

I dont even know that the oil temps are cooler as a result of just a cam plate change. Fueling claims it is, maybe some other companies do as well. The oil temps displayed by the oem harley gauge are far from scientific and IME useless for data collection.

[guydoc77]

I don't know that they run cooler either.
I have run two HD oil temp gauges which both eventually failed.
So I switched to an aftermarket unit. And it consistently shows higher oil temps than the HD did under similar circumstances. But it has been very  reliable.
The higher temps used to bother me. But, at 34000 miles on this 11.3:1 107", I don't worry anymore.
I think an oil temp gauge on a street bike  is useful only to the degree that one can watch for significant changes from usual readings. One has to ride lots of miles under all sorts of conditions to establish "usual" readings.
So, in the end, the gauge is a great way to fill the hole that had been filled by the often useless ambient air temp gauge. 

[BVHOG]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

[rbabos]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

I'm trying to forget. You ain't helping.
Ron

[Hillside Motorcycle]

In spite of our large relationship with S&S, I have vocalized to them of my posture on the Dan Thayer event.
Fell on deaf ears w/o a doubt, but at least they are aware.
Seems the only thing that means more than money.......is more money.....

[turboprop]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

Aren't there significant differences between the two pumps (i.e; screen, external pressure adjustment, different width gears, etc)?

And for the record, I am not a big fan of S&S as they have screwed me at just about every opportunity they could.

[Ohio HD]

I'll say this, I have both a Thayer pump and an S&S pump, in two different motors. Both perform as they should and do great. However here comes one part that's important to me. I needed the pump body o-ring for the Thayer pump as I'm rebuilding that motor. Oil pump looks like new, but I don't reuse things like o-rings. Especially after 40k miles. I emailed Thayer three times in the span of about six months. Called twice and couldn't get in touch. I bought a new S&S pump and plate for the rebuild of that motor. No one is so busy they can't answer a customer, or they shouldn't be that busy.

The Thayer pump went on the shelf. I can afford new parts. And yes I have been able to get S&S by email easily. The two contacts I have for S&S answers within two days at the most.

[PoorUB]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

[1workinman]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

[klammer76]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

Thayer is a two person operation, himself and I believe his wife. I always had to leave a message when I wanted him to tune a bike. Never answered the phone but did call me back.

[No Cents]

  Dan has always called me back too.
It's like many business owners in the motor scooter industry that run a one man show. You call them...leave them a message with your name and phone number...and they usually return your call when they get some spare time. Many of them would never get anything done if they answered the phone every time it rang and talked on it all day long. I really can't blame them in that aspect.
  I'm not trying to make an excuse for them...but I know how busy these kind of guys are with small shops, with little to no employees for help. You can call into some of the bigger shops and you can usually talk to someone...but they sometimes don't have a clue as to what your asking them. I think I hate that even worse.

[1workinman]

  Dan has always called me back too.
It's like many business owners in the motor scooter industry that run a one man show. You call them...leave them a message with your name and phone number...and they usually return your call when they get some spare time. Many of them would never get anything done if they answered the phone every time it rang and talked on it all day long. I really can't blame them in that aspect.
  I'm not trying to make an excuse for them...but I know how busy these kind of guys are with small shops, with little to no employees for help. You can call into some of the bigger shops and you can usually talk to someone...but they sometimes doesn't have a clue as to what your asking them. I think I hate that even worse.

Ray I called and talked to the Dan and he answered my questions . I would not have any problem with his products

[N-gin]

Long story short.
I have tried the screamin eagle oil pump and Dan Thayer oil pump regular oil pump that comes in a 96 of Fueling oil pump, close toreance..
I've done comparisons where I measured the rotors and fitment.
I have not tried an s&s pump. I have heard horror stories about the rotors fitting loosely a couple of them exploding and of course the Ludacris thief story.
I use a damn thing or pump and plate and everything's fine

[chaos901]

Very interesting reading all of these, always good when people that know a subject have a discussion; helps to continue my education.   

Prior to reading this, if I had been presented with replacing the plate on one of my bikes I would have either gone back with the OEM or the big brand if I thought the OEM was suspect.     

[FLDavetrain]

Older thread but I'm curious about a comparison not touched on.
Would the larger SnS pump gerotors help eliminate sumping better than the smaller Thayer ones? The idle psi is much different between the two, so wondering about the affect of this difference?