camplate/pump...Thayer vs S&S blue

[Admiral Akbar]

This subject might as well be put in the same 'taste great/less filing' category as oil and TC lifters. Maybe have a new member dust it off by asking the same question every six months or so.

Fueling and a some other companies have been very vocal about proclaiming that using their cam plates will result in better oiling, lower temps, etc. But i have never seen anything close to a clinical A-B-C comparison that supports their claim. Not that I give a "Potty mouth", but without clinical numbers to support it , those claims are little more than marketing hype that have been validated by consumers claiming that what they bought is the best. Anyways, very little technical substance in this thread. Probably time to put it away for six months.

Good stuff Ed..   Anyone know why the oil temps are cooler?   It's not because the motor runs cooler.

[turboprop]

This subject might as well be put in the same 'taste great/less filing' category as oil and TC lifters. Maybe have a new member dust it off by asking the same question every six months or so.

Fueling and a some other companies have been very vocal about proclaiming that using their cam plates will result in better oiling, lower temps, etc. But i have never seen anything close to a clinical A-B-C comparison that supports their claim. Not that I give a "Potty mouth", but without clinical numbers to support it , those claims are little more than marketing hype that have been validated by consumers claiming that what they bought is the best. Anyways, very little technical substance in this thread. Probably time to put it away for six months.

Good stuff Ed..   Anyone know why the oil temps are cooler?   It's not because the motor runs cooler.

I dont even know that the oil temps are cooler as a result of just a cam plate change. Fueling claims it is, maybe some other companies do as well. The oil temps displayed by the oem harley gauge are far from scientific and IME useless for data collection.

[guydoc77]

I don't know that they run cooler either.
I have run two HD oil temp gauges which both eventually failed.
So I switched to an aftermarket unit. And it consistently shows higher oil temps than the HD did under similar circumstances. But it has been very  reliable.
The higher temps used to bother me. But, at 34000 miles on this 11.3:1 107", I don't worry anymore.
I think an oil temp gauge on a street bike  is useful only to the degree that one can watch for significant changes from usual readings. One has to ride lots of miles under all sorts of conditions to establish "usual" readings.
So, in the end, the gauge is a great way to fill the hole that had been filled by the often useless ambient air temp gauge. 

[BVHOG]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

[rbabos]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

I'm trying to forget. You ain't helping.
Ron

[Hillside Motorcycle]

In spite of our large relationship with S&S, I have vocalized to them of my posture on the Dan Thayer event.
Fell on deaf ears w/o a doubt, but at least they are aware.
Seems the only thing that means more than money.......is more money.....

[turboprop]

calling S&S thieves is ludicrous,by far the most innovative company in HD performance history.their blue pump & the Thayer pump/plate are two different animals.(the Thayer & S&S crate unit are along the same lines,but still different enough) 99% of builds would never show any benefits from the Thayer or S&S propriety unit

Ludicrous?  hardly, they took someone else's product, put it into production themselves and are profiting from it. How is that not thievery?

Aren't there significant differences between the two pumps (i.e; screen, external pressure adjustment, different width gears, etc)?

And for the record, I am not a big fan of S&S as they have screwed me at just about every opportunity they could.

[Ohio HD]

I'll say this, I have both a Thayer pump and an S&S pump, in two different motors. Both perform as they should and do great. However here comes one part that's important to me. I needed the pump body o-ring for the Thayer pump as I'm rebuilding that motor. Oil pump looks like new, but I don't reuse things like o-rings. Especially after 40k miles. I emailed Thayer three times in the span of about six months. Called twice and couldn't get in touch. I bought a new S&S pump and plate for the rebuild of that motor. No one is so busy they can't answer a customer, or they shouldn't be that busy.

The Thayer pump went on the shelf. I can afford new parts. And yes I have been able to get S&S by email easily. The two contacts I have for S&S answers within two days at the most.

[PoorUB]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

[1workinman]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

[klammer76]

"Great" survice like that can eventually put someone out of business. Someone at Thayer probably had the attitude "it is just an o-ring, they can get it from someone else", where the customer gets pissed and buys from someone else.

The company I work for will go to to ridiculous extremes to find a $2 part for a customer. When I first started I spent a couple hours looking for a $5 part. I asked the boss if they really wanted me to do parts seaches like this knowing we loose money on the sale. He just said to keep doing it and we make it up on later orders.

Thayer is a two person operation, himself and I believe his wife. I always had to leave a message when I wanted him to tune a bike. Never answered the phone but did call me back.

[No Cents]

  Dan has always called me back too.
It's like many business owners in the motor scooter industry that run a one man show. You call them...leave them a message with your name and phone number...and they usually return your call when they get some spare time. Many of them would never get anything done if they answered the phone every time it rang and talked on it all day long. I really can't blame them in that aspect.
  I'm not trying to make an excuse for them...but I know how busy these kind of guys are with small shops, with little to no employees for help. You can call into some of the bigger shops and you can usually talk to someone...but they sometimes don't have a clue as to what your asking them. I think I hate that even worse.

[1workinman]

  Dan has always called me back too.
It's like many business owners in the motor scooter industry that run a one man show. You call them...leave them a message with your name and phone number...and they usually return your call when they get some spare time. Many of them would never get anything done if they answered the phone every time it rang and talked on it all day long. I really can't blame them in that aspect.
  I'm not trying to make an excuse for them...but I know how busy these kind of guys are with small shops, with little to no employees for help. You can call into some of the bigger shops and you can usually talk to someone...but they sometimes doesn't have a clue as to what your asking them. I think I hate that even worse.

Ray I called and talked to the Dan and he answered my questions . I would not have any problem with his products

[N-gin]

Long story short.
I have tried the screamin eagle oil pump and Dan Thayer oil pump regular oil pump that comes in a 96 of Fueling oil pump, close toreance..
I've done comparisons where I measured the rotors and fitment.
I have not tried an s&s pump. I have heard horror stories about the rotors fitting loosely a couple of them exploding and of course the Ludacris thief story.
I use a damn thing or pump and plate and everything's fine

[chaos901]

Very interesting reading all of these, always good when people that know a subject have a discussion; helps to continue my education.   

Prior to reading this, if I had been presented with replacing the plate on one of my bikes I would have either gone back with the OEM or the big brand if I thought the OEM was suspect.     

[FLDavetrain]

Older thread but I'm curious about a comparison not touched on.
Would the larger SnS pump gerotors help eliminate sumping better than the smaller Thayer ones? The idle psi is much different between the two, so wondering about the affect of this difference?