Anti-seize on head nuts

[JW113]

One thing that always bothers me a little is when you go to loosen the head nuts on a Evo Twin Cam, they twist-twist-twist until they make that loud CRACK then let loose. I've always used motor oil on the cylinder stud threads when installing the heads. I'm wondering if anti-seize is OK to use, and if it might make getting the nuts back off later a bit less dramatic?

-JW

[wfolarry]

The heat sucks out whatever you put in there so don't over think it. Besides thay dryness keeps them from backing off when you're riding the bike. 

[kd]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good. 

[rbabos]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good.

One of the reasons I like the x pre torque plus the 90* rotation. Can't over torque this way and it uses the degrees for stretch rather then more or less thread and head bolt contact frictional differences that skews actual torque values the wrench alone gives. Cometic not immune to this effect. Just saying.
Ron

[JW113]

Agree Ron, I don't use torque either for the same reason on the head nuts. Pulled too many studs with the Cometic/James method.

-JW

[nibroc]

what is an evo twin cam?

[86fxwg]

ARP Ultra Tourqe.   https://youtu.be/SSgG5xClye4


86


         

[klammer76]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good.

One of the reasons I like the x pre torque plus the 90* rotation. Can't over torque this way and it uses the degrees for stretch rather then more or less thread and head bolt contact frictional differences that skews actual torque values the wrench alone gives. Cometic not immune to this effect. Just saying.
Ron

Agree Ron, I don't use torque either for the same reason on the head nuts. Pulled too many studs with the Cometic/James method.

-JW

Are you guys saying you use the OEM service manual 90* final rotation procedure when using Cometic MLS head gaskets also?Thanks

[Maddo Snr]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good.

I've been in the trade 44 years and I've never heard that one KD. Unless stated, general torque specs are for clean, lubed threads. Are Harley specs different? i.e. dry?

It is the tread angle that creates thread locking not the lack of lubrication (stiction) between thread faces. A square buttress thread on a vise is covered in grease and NEVER backs off...

Dry threads end up under-torqued, not over, because the torque wrench is seeing stictional load as torque. Dry threads are indeed an issue, for under-torqueing.

For the OP: On race motors we use a 50:50 mix of hi-temp 'never sieze' and lanolin grease. It keeps the fasteners and threaded holes in perfect order. Works fine with air-cooled heads. Just be sure you don't re-use ELD fasteners!

p.s. The "setting torque + 90 degrees" method is mostly for elastic (generally re-usable) fasteners, the "setting torque plus finishing torque" method is mostly for plastic (ELD) fasteners, all of which are single-use. Compensator centre-bolts being an example of the latter. Both types should be clean and lightly lubed before pulling up, unless they have a manufacturers lock-lubricant already applied.

As KD sagely said "Follow the manufacturers procedure".

[Mick0311]

There are different torque specs for dry, lubed or PTFE fasteners.

[kd]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good.

I've been in the trade 44 years and I've never heard that one KD. Unless stated, general torque specs are for clean, lubed threads. Are Harley specs different? i.e. dry?

It is the tread angle that creates thread locking not lubrication between thread faces. A square buttress thread on a vise is covered in grease and NEVER backs off...

Dry threads end up under-torqued, not over, because the torque wrench is seeing sectional load as torque. Dry threads are indeed an issue, for undertaking.

For the OP: On race motors we use a 50:50 mix of hi-temp 'never sieze' and lanolin grease. It keeps the fasteners and threaded holes in perfect order. Works fine with air-cooled heads. Just be sure you don't re-use ELD fasteners!

p.s. The "setting torque + 90 degrees" method is mostly for elastic (generally re-usable) fasteners, the "setting torque plus finishing torque" method is mostly for plastic (ELD) fasteners, all of which are single-use. Compensator centre-bolts being an example of the latter. Both types should be clean and lightly lubed before pulling up, unless they have a manufacturers  already applied.

Maddo Snr, I have come to respect your opinion and input on this site. I will however choose to disagree with you on this.  You also seem to agree with me by interjecting some engineering principals that I don't see as totally relevant here. All fasteners will incur longitudinal stress when tightened passed their given yield point dependent on their makeup. That stress can cause them to exceed their yield point.

I too have a long background, albeit not as extensive as I suspect yours is, (48 yrs certified in the trades. 13 years training, investigation and enforcement surrounding failures, and 19 years of ongoing consulting and giving expert evidence in court the whole time)  My findings are, and supported by manufacturers, that a clean thread is required, A "drop" (very subjective term) of lube at the start of the thread is important to prevent the "under torque" condition you and I agree to. However, a well (or over) lubed thread will result in an easier turn on the wrench to the risk of over yield on the fastener material probably ending in damage.  I understand the engineering principal in the fact that sum of the thread base engauged within in the length of the fasting bore is ideally at least equal to the width of the fastener stud component. (thinner nuts can only sustain lesser torque)  Deformation of the threads most usually occurs when the nut for example in reduced in height and can not support the tension. Deformation is the result of exceeding the yield strength of the material. Stretch adds resilience and exceeding stretch beyond yield removes that safety factor.  Repeated hot and cold cycles can also cause fasteners to loosen and stretch provides thread traction that prevents that.  Over lubing threads removes that locking principal in most thread designs.

Coarse and fine threads also come into play as they have different ramps speeds and therefore different locking qualities. I do agree that it is the thread angle that creates the thread locking and not the lubrication. Lubrication allows threads to travel easier in both directions under most conditions (similar to too steep a pitch of thread will unwind easier).  I used to wonder why my eaves trough screws on the south side of my house would wind out and drop to the ground if not re-tightened until I realized the hot and cold of the sun in winter (only on the east, south, and west where exposed) is when and where it happened and the steep wood screw thread pitch was part of the phenomina. Vibration over time in the common definition or by hot and cold response can be the culprit. 

A reasonable comparison for what we are discussing might be automotive and large truck wheel fasteners. (some even have tapered seats assisting them)  Please take the time to look up the manufacturer's recommended procedure if you want.  All manufacturers of such fasteners recommend what I have just explained as a drop of oil to the beginning of a clean thread on installation (and under the washer if so equipped). Torque specs are based on this preparation before installation. The oil is meant to reduce / prevent galling and drag only. Over torquing due to excessive lube will stretch these fasteners to the point that they will crack the stud in the valley of the thread's sharpest point and fracture. I can not tell you how many times I have investigated wheel detachments that had clear evidence of a thread soaking on a recent installation that caused stretched studs with a measurable loss in cross section dimension at the fracture point.  In fact, I carry several examples with me for visual training purposes.

I hope this helps explain my point of view. As for what do I do?  Almost without exception it is what I describe unless the manufacturer insists on other methods such as the 90* method. There can be different torque specs that relate to the material / application involved or the thread pitch etc..

[Barrett]

https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/51-1044_headbolts84-99bt86-03xl_20120730.pdf?sfvrsn=4
S&S says light coat of lube.

[Maddo Snr]

Great stuff KD. I had to think about the wording. Over here 'investigation and enforcement surrounding failures' is called "tribology" and 'yield point' is "elastic limit'  all good.

Re: oiled threads. All modern motorcycles, but especially those used in damp humid climates, salted roads and off-road suffer from electrolytic (and to a lesser extent heat-based) corrosion of fasteners. I've only been playing with HDs for 18 months but I find the level of fastener corrosion on HDs to be worse than anything I've ever seen on dirt/race bikes. Almost marine type damage.

Invariably motor and lower chassis fasteners are the worst. I'm of the opinion that with HDs particularly, under tightening of fasteners due to thread stiction is a major issue.

I'm constantly torquing race-bike aluminium-alloy and Ti fasteners which have very high levels of stictional grip to their threaded holes. Obviously they need to be properly lubricated or the torque wrench beeps too early.

I've also done a fair whack of consultant tribology over the years, mainly to do with lubrication failures. I have no knowledge of over-lubrication of threads causing fasteners to back out. I can see that it may be an issue though, especially in the case of PTFE contamination.

I had hoped to happily retire and not think about Engineering ever again. Thanks for nothing! 

[Maddo Snr]

https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/51-1044_headbolts84-99bt86-03xl_20120730.pdf?sfvrsn=4

S&S says light coat of lube.

Lets be clear here, "a light coat of lube" is a quick spray of 5-56 and a light wipe-down with a clean rag, not greased or dripping in lubricant.

[kd]

 

https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/51-1044_headbolts84-99bt86-03xl_20120730.pdf?sfvrsn=4
S&S says light coat of lube.

Lets be clear here, "a light coat of lube" is a quick spray of 5-56 and a light wipe-down with a clean rag, not greased or dripping in lubricant.

If you would have said that earlier I could have used the time for my lengthy response to work on my bike.   


  You're a funny guy Snr.  On the subject of electrolytic corrosion, I notice that HD uses the chassis fairly extensively in their circuits.  There's ground lugs and paths all over. Grounds are continually causing ghost issues.  I have often thought dissimilar metals and this wild current (and in some cases simple salt air contamination causing the electrolysis) was a contributor that may be the part of the problem that the OP began the post over.

How's that for getting back on track eh?   

[Maddo Snr]

Nice segue...and 100% agreed. Who was the genius at HD who said:
"Hey Earl, I'm a thinkin' we'all can save $2.59c on every bike if we ditch proper earthing by copper conductors and use the steel frame, zinc coated bolts, chrome brackets, and galvanised braces as a return current path"

No chance of electrolytic action there... 

I advised someone on HTT to bond their starter motor directly back to battery negative on a high-comp bike. He was amazed at the extra cranking speed!

Negative path return through the chassis/monocoque is a major cause of bolt corrosion. Individual low-impedance negative bonds made a massive difference to car corrosion around 1980. HD isn't alone, KTM race bikes are the worst for neg bonding issues.

[FSG]

Lets be clear here, "a light coat of lube" is a quick spray of 5-56 and a light wipe-down with a clean rag, not greased or dripping in lubricant.

a bit like Brylcream .......  "a little dab will do ya"   

[Maddo Snr]

My apologies for getting sidetracked, nerd Engineer syndrome.

re: the OPs 'loud crack' worries

The loud 'crack' one hears when breaking open a torqued bolt doesn't come from the thread! The thread is a ramp, a spiral ramp but still an incline. You never hear a 'crack' when a landslide starts, a kid releases to go down a slippery-dip or your bike rolls away on a hill.

The 'crack' is the breaking of the bond between the washer/bolt-flange and the sub-assembly. If the bolt ever fails during this procedure you'll notice the break is way up where the shank meets the bolt-head, rarely, if ever, down the shank or threaded section.

Made all the more worse by a steel bolt being electrolytically bonded to the alloy sub-assembly by years of galvanic action.

[Maddo Snr]

And another thing:

My HD manual says to prepare all fasteners by cleaning them with PJ1 contact cleaner leaving them clean and DRY.

All HD spare part unplated bolts are shipped lubed...

[TorQuePimp]

They need nothing more than oil.....I think there's Kendall racing oil in my oil can at the moment

No never seize.....no arp bolt poop......motor oil

And yeah the studs should be cleaned before applying oil

Pretty simple

[Ohio HD]

https://www.sscycle.com/docs/default-source/instruction-sheets/51-1044_headbolts84-99bt86-03xl_20120730.pdf?sfvrsn=4
S&S says light coat of lube.

Agree with that, and you. I just use a bit of motor oil between my fingers and rub it into the threads of the studs. Just to keep the faster and stud from having a galling condition.

Basically I just get them wet with oil, wipe most of it away with fingers, not a rag. 

[Chippitt68]

ARP Ultra Tourqe.   https://youtu.be/SSgG5xClye4


86


       

Did he say 18,000 lbs?

[speedzter]

I think we all know what the correct procedure is , but just including this video as I found it a good practical demonstration.

https://youtu.be/O96AUlIBkU8

[Maddo Snr]

They need nothing more than oil.....I think there's Kendall racing oil in my oil can at the moment

No never seize.....no arp bolt poop......motor oil

And yeah the studs should be cleaned before applying oil

Pretty simple

ARP 'bolt poop' is made for motors developing way north of 1000HP per cylinder. A very strong Harley makes less than 1/10th of that. Horses for courses I guess TP.

At Top Fuel level no-one uses a torque wrench on rod bolts, they're stretch-monitored with a dial indicator. The rod bolts are also pre-lubed. I remember Keith Black saying that only 15% of a torque-wrenches work stretches the bolt, the rest is thread stiction.

[PoorUB]

Did he say 18,000 lbs?

Yes, why do you ask?

I missed if the video claimed any application, but I believe 18,000 pounds is a bit more than what HD cylinder studs run, but close!

7/16"UNC if i recall?

I stand corrected. 3/8" UNC so not even close to the 18,000 pounds in the video, maybe about 1/2 of that.

[JW113]

The loud 'crack' one hears when breaking open a torqued bolt doesn't come from the thread! ----

The 'crack' is the breaking of the bond between the washer/bolt-flange and the sub-assembly.

Hmm. I don't think that is the case. My observation is that the head nut is turning, but it's not breaking loose from the threads on the stud. When it finally does, CRACK! It does not appear to be a case of the flange on the nut sticking to the head, but rather the threads in the nut sticking to the threads on the stud.

By the way, HD cylinder studs are 3/8-16 thread...

-JW

[Maddo Snr]

Hmm. I don't think that is the case. My observation is that the head nut is turning, but it's not breaking loose from the threads on the stud. When it finally does, CRACK! It does not appear to be a case of the flange on the nut sticking to the head, but rather the threads in the nut sticking to the threads on the stud...
-JW

Ok oh, that's bad.
Obviously, if the head's turning it's the thread that's locked up. If the bolt-head is free try warming the alloy head and the spraying the 'bolt only' with Freeze-it. It'll decrease the chance of snapping the bolt.

Not much you can do in those cases JW except hope. if you're a Catholic like me, St Jude is always an option...

[JW113]

So I think we all agree, "follow the manual" is good advice. To wit:

[attach=0]

"Thoroughly clean and lubricate", check. "With engine oil", check. No mention about a drop at the start of threads, by the way. Personally, I don't think it makes any difference how much oil is on the threads, the nut is going to push away any excess.

The point of this whole thread/question was about using Anti-Seize instead of motor oil. Anti-seize is a grease with finely ground aluminum, copper, and graphite powder in it. It's main purpose is to prevent corrosion between the two sets of threads. Permatex says it has the same lubricity on threads as motor oil, so it should not affect the factory's recommended torque requiremens.

My thoughts on using this instead of motor oil was that it might be less prone to sticking the head nut to the cylinder stud during disassembly. Heads get pretty hot. When you get an oil leak from a rocker box onto the head, after a while it bakes into some pretty nasty and sticky stuff, sometimes hard to remove without solvents. So if there is motor oil in the threads of the head nut, how can that also not get baked into sticky carbon? Is that maybe why Harley head nuts stick to the studs and go CRACK when you break them loose?

Screw it. Am gonna give it a try. Will let you know what happens if I ever have to take this thing apart anytime soon. (hopefully NOT though!!!)

-JW

[koko3052]

Hmm. I don't think that is the case. My observation is that the head nut is turning, but it's not breaking loose from the threads on the stud. When it finally does, CRACK! It does not appear to be a case of the flange on the nut sticking to the head, but rather the threads in the nut sticking to the threads on the stud...
-JW

Ok oh, that's bad.
Obviously, if the head's turning it's the thread that's locked up. If the bolt-head is free try warming the alloy head and the spraying the 'bolt only' with Freeze-it. It'll decrease the chance of snapping the bolt.

Not much you can do in those cases JW except hope. if you're a Catholic like me, St Jude is always an option...

How are you able to "spray the bolt" when you can't see it...Catholic or not?
Also I've tried that "freeze it" crap & was a waist of time & money! JMHO

[kd]

So I think we all agree, "follow the manual" is good advice. To wit:

[attach=0]

"Thoroughly clean and lubricate", check. "With engine oil", check. No mention about a drop at the start of threads, by the way. Personally, I don't think it makes any difference how much oil is on the threads, the nut is going to push away any excess.

The point of this whole thread/question was about using Anti-Seize instead of motor oil. Anti-seize is a grease with finely ground aluminum, copper, and graphite powder in it. It's main purpose is to prevent corrosion between the two sets of threads. Permatex says it has the same lubricity on threads as motor oil, so it should not affect the factory's recommended torque requiremens.

My thoughts on using this instead of motor oil was that it might be less prone to sticking the head nut to the cylinder stud during disassembly. Heads get pretty hot. When you get an oil leak from a rocker box onto the head, after a while it bakes into some pretty nasty and sticky stuff, sometimes hard to remove without solvents. So if there is motor oil in the threads of the head nut, how can that also not get baked into sticky carbon? Is that maybe why Harley head nuts stick to the studs and go CRACK when you break them loose?

Screw it. Am gonna give it a try. Will let you know what happens if I ever have to take this thing apart anytime soon. (hopefully NOT though!!!)

-JW

JW, in reply 2 my initial suggestion was "follow the manufacturers instructions" and it was repeated and agreed upon several times.  Then we veered off track a bit bunch.  By the time we got back to your OP several of us had offered "opinions" a bit off topic.  The context of the drop of oil on the start of the threads statement was made in regard to wheel fasteners and as something I personally use as a default when no manufacturers instructions are given or available.  Clearly,  if you continue to follow the manufacturers instructions accurately you will be golden.  However, IMO, if you want to change the recipe (like you would baking a cake), don't blame the MOCO or Permatex for a stupid design.  One thing to consider here is these torque spec numbers are not high so deviation from the numbers will not likely be critical.  The way I see it, the important part of this procedure (or any assembly procedure for that matter) is the consistency of the first steps which draws the head down evenly on the cylinder surface. The last move sets the clamping pressure.

BTW, to your issue with the dry thread upon removal, you can expect that to happen in most cases where a reasonable amount of torque is used to tighten a fastener (lubed or not).  The working side of the thread will squeeze / shear out any oil residue during the higher tightening sequence causing stictional grip. Compounds like the ARP application will be made to leave a residue under high pressure. (I expect a good synthetic oil may do the same)  Your idea to use Coppercoat or a similar lube will likely compare somewhat to the ARP stuff.  It was once discussed on here what the difference was between the OEM torque instructions and the Cometic.  Testing showed that Cometic'c instructions provided more clamping pressure.  Heavy danger there if you deviated to the plus side with the risk of pulling studs as you have already acknowledged.   Either way, both worked fine when following the instructions if the foundation components were healthy.  If it doesn't leak, you may never have to take it apart and you will never know.   

[Norton Commando]

So I think we all agree, "follow the manual" is good advice. To wit:

[attach=0,msg1277142]

"Thoroughly clean and lubricate", check. "With engine oil", check. No mention about a drop at the start of threads, by the way. Personally, I don't think it makes any difference how much oil is on the threads, the nut is going to push away any excess.

The point of this whole thread/question was about using Anti-Seize instead of motor oil. Anti-seize is a grease with finely ground aluminum, copper, and graphite powder in it. It's main purpose is to prevent corrosion between the two sets of threads. Permatex says it has the same lubricity on threads as motor oil, so it should not affect the factory's recommended torque requiremens.

My thoughts on using this instead of motor oil was that it might be less prone to sticking the head nut to the cylinder stud during disassembly. Heads get pretty hot. When you get an oil leak from a rocker box onto the head, after a while it bakes into some pretty nasty and sticky stuff, sometimes hard to remove without solvents. So if there is motor oil in the threads of the head nut, how can that also not get baked into sticky carbon? Is that maybe why Harley head nuts stick to the studs and go CRACK when you break them loose?

Screw it. Am gonna give it a try. Will let you know what happens if I ever have to take this thing apart anytime soon. (hopefully NOT though!!!)

-JW

I guess the only question is how does the friction coefficient of motor oil compare with your particular anti-seize. If the friction coefficient for anti-seize is less than motor oil, there is a slight risk overloading the stud. Having said that, the turn-of-nut  method of preloading eliminates much of the frictional variations.

Best,

Jason

[RoadGlide18]

Depending on the type of anti-seize it will remain on the bolt.  So...  when you remove the bolt it will not be rusted in, or dryed out but be allowed to be removed with less effort.  I would assume but never tested that the removal torque should be close, more due to stiction.   Most times i've seen this stuff used is on lug nuts, exhaust bolts, ect.  It works great as a slide lube on my auto's but that another topic.

JK

[Pete_Vit]

Using a lube on the threads will also lead to an over torqued fastener.  Follow the OEM procedure or someone like Cometic with their gaskets and all should be good.

One of the reasons I like the x pre torque plus the 90* rotation. Can't over torque this way and it uses the degrees for stretch rather then more or less thread and head bolt contact frictional differences that skews actual torque values the wrench alone gives. Cometic not immune to this effect. Just saying.
Ron

[Maddo Snr]

How are you able to "spray the bolt" when you can't see it...

Pack cotton wadding around the bolt head to preserve heat in the alloy assembly and then spray the bolt-head with Freez-it.  It works, I've seen old-school guys use the same procedure in car race pits with the oxy torch and ice cubes.

[Maddo Snr]

...Having said that, the turn-of-nut  method of preloading eliminates much of the frictional variations.

Best,

Jason

And introduces another variable Jase in that now thread elongation is proportion to pitch. Which is why Top Fuel guys only use a dial micrometer to check elongation, no torque wrench, no angular.

[Moparnut72]

The pinch bolt that clamps the two parts of a radial engine crank together have a dimple at each end. It would take three of us to put one of these together. Ball bearing balls had to be held in each of the dimples while one guy measured the length with a micrometer. It also take three of us to tighten the bolt, two to hold the crank and one to pull on the breaker bar with a cheater bar. It took a lot of force to tighten one of those.   

[JW113]

I am at a loss why you guys are compare top fuel and airplane engines and measuring bolt elongation to this. No offense intended, but it sounds like you don't have any idea what we're talking about. Harley Davidson cylinder studs, screwed into the engine case at one end, passing through the cylinders and heads, totally blind, and the only thing exposed at the top of the head is the top of the head nut. There is nothing to measure! Thread elongation??? Really? I think you're misapplying mechanical engineering here.

The factory's method is to get the head nuts all to a fairly equil but light clamping force, and to compress the head gasket. Then a 90 degree turn gives a pretty good appoximation of stretching the cylinder studs an additional 0.016". Done! Every time I've done this using a beam torque wrench to see how much torque is actually being applied, it's only about 32-35 ft/lbs.

There is a reason for such a light torque/clamp force on these cylinder studs. When you assemble the engine, all the metal is at room temperature. When those aluminum heads and cylinders get hot, they grow. A LOT. The steel studs, not so much. So the clamp force goes up substantially when the motor is at operating temp. Which is yet another reason that you should not fire up a cold EVO or TC and run it through the gears at WFO bouncing off the redline...

-JW

[kd]

 

[nibroc]

........still don't know what an evo twin cam is.......

[JW113]

Nibroc you smartass!

Evo / Twin Cam

Happy?



-JW

[rageglide]

Back to the question...    We know FSM says clean threads and lightly lube with engine oil on threads and underside of head.   Hot engine, bakes oil and "glues" the threads together.

Anti-sieze would be less likely to glue the threads.   But then why doesn't anyone do it, Factory is clear, engine oil only.   Yet people are happy to use non-factory torque method.  From Harley product engineers perspective, MLS or Composite head gasket, they recommend the same 90 degree method.

Is there an engine oil that might be less likely to bake?  Synthetic?  But wait won't that be too slippery?  lol     

[JW113]

They don't recommend anti-seize because the motor company has not yet repacked somebody else's product into Genuine (tm) Harley-Davidson Anti-Seize.



-JW

[Billy]

They don't recommend anti-seize because the motor company has not yet repacked somebody else's product into Genuine (tm) Harley-Davidson Anti-Seize.



-JW

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/loctite-anti-seize-lubricant

[JW113]

No. That's not "HD Endorsed Ca-Ca". That's "Permatex". Big difference, doncha know? Like "their" oil vs. anbody else's oil. Big difference. Whatsa matter wit you? Kool-Aid. You need to drink da Kool-Aid. Make all better.

-JW

[rageglide]

Like diss...

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/electrical-contact-lubricant-pa-12-9986102--1

[Billy]

No. That's not "HD Endorsed Ca-Ca". That's "Permatex". Big difference, doncha know? Like "their" oil vs. anbody else's oil. Big difference. Whatsa matter wit you? Kool-Aid. You need to drink da Kool-Aid. Make all better.

-JW

[rbabos]

Like diss...

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/electrical-contact-lubricant-pa-12-9986102--1

Chit. All my electrical connections will rot off now. I only used Permatex dielectric on my bike.
Ron