Four Speed Clutch

[drifter]

This new stuff is out of my price range, but I got curious and looked around.  The clutches for 1936 through 1984 (1056 0002) cost $571. plus shipping(?)  from American Prime or $513. plus shipping from Amazon, same clutch sold and shipped by American Prime.  I didn't check the price of the newer clutches but they are available on Amazon if you are shopping around and want to compare pricing.  The stock style Barnett clutch behind my 88 inch Pan works for me.  Like JW113 I also use an aluminum pressure plate and used to use a Ramjet, but back when I was letting mechanics work on the bike one of them replaced it with a Zodiac Tamer, a fancier (read expensive) version that does the same thing.

[david lee]

my hd mech, a shovel expert told me years ago getting neutral you have to be rolling.thats how they are

[rkrcpa]

my hd mech, a shovel expert told me years ago getting neutral you have to be rolling.thats how they are

I bought my first Shovel in 1980, I've never had trouble finding neutral. It's always been right where I left it, between first and second gear. Maybe I've just been lucky all these years?

[Ohio HD]

my hd mech, a shovel expert told me years ago getting neutral you have to be rolling.thats how they are

I bought my first Shovel in 1980, I've never had trouble finding neutral. It's always been right where I left it, between first and second gear. Maybe I've just been lucky all these years?

Agree, if the chain is adjusted correctly, the clutch adjusted correctly, and the sprocket to basket alignment is good, or even motor sprocket a little towards the motor, neutral was always there when stopped.

[Burnout]

When I set up a 4 speed clutch I take a lot of time to make sure the pressure plate releases flat.
You don't just set the height of the pressure plate and button it up.
I pull the clutch lever and make sure the plate lifts off the clutch pack evenly.
Pull the lever and spin the pressure plate to see if it wobbles, keep adjusting until it releases flat.
If the pressure plate tips the clutch will drag and make finding neutral difficult, this will also make it bang into gear worse.
If you end up with a drastic tilt on the spring retainer juggle the springs to even out the weak & strong springs so the plate releases flat without tipping the retainer a lot.
I also like the aluminum pressure plate as it does not warp with high spring pressure like the tin one.
DO NOT over tighten the spring retainer, make sure the springs do not collapse completely (coil bind) as that will warp the pressure plate

Lever pull is limited and anything that reduces lever pull is bad
Other things that can cause problems are.
Thick grips or wraps on grips (reduces lever travel)
Worn out lever or saddle (reduces lever travel)
Leather wraps on the levers (reduces lever travel)
Any kind of damage to the clutch cable or lack of lube.

Always adjust the clutch cable with the bars straight ahead, turning the bars will change the adjustment.
The good clutch cables have longitudinally wound housings, they are stiffer but loose less travel. NO TIGHT BENDS and don't tie/clamp the cable down in more than one place. If you have drag bars route the cable around the other side of the frame so there is not a tight bend down from the bars. DO NOT try to use a cable that is too short either, a bend right at the lever will guarantee broken wires on the inner cable and cause drag. Also there are cables that have no liner, the cables with no liner are not worth a single penny.
Both Barnett and Motion Pro will custom build cables, call them and they will send you drawings to confirm the design and lengths. Note they do hoses too.

Don't use heavy oil in the primary, I seal the primary (disconnect it from the motor oiling system) and use ATF in the primary. Heavy oil will cause drag especially when cold.
DO NOT adjust the primary chain on the tight side, better a little loose. Check it hot if you are in doubt.

[crock]

When I set up a 4 speed clutch I take a lot of time to make sure the pressure plate releases flat.
You don't just set the height of the pressure plate and button it up.
I pull the clutch lever and make sure the plate lifts off the clutch pack evenly.
Pull the lever and spin the pressure plate to see if it wobbles, keep adjusting until it releases flat.
If the pressure plate tips the clutch will drag and make finding neutral difficult, this will also make it bang into gear worse.
If you end up with a drastic tilt on the spring retainer juggle the springs to even out the weak & strong springs so the plate releases flat without tipping the retainer a lot.
I also like the aluminum pressure plate as it does not warp with high spring pressure like the tin one.
DO NOT over tighten the spring retainer, make sure the springs do not collapse completely (coil bind) as that will warp the pressure plate

Lever pull is limited and anything that reduces lever pull is bad
Other things that can cause problems are.
Thick grips or wraps on grips (reduces lever travel)
Worn out lever or saddle (reduces lever travel)
Leather wraps on the levers (reduces lever travel)
Any kind of damage to the clutch cable or lack of lube.

Always adjust the clutch cable with the bars straight ahead, turning the bars will change the adjustment.
The good clutch cables have longitudinally wound housings, they are stiffer but loose less travel. NO TIGHT BENDS and don't tie/clamp the cable down in more than one place. If you have drag bars route the cable around the other side of the frame so there is not a tight bend down from the bars. DO NOT try to use a cable that is too short either, a bend right at the lever will guarantee broken wires on the inner cable and cause drag. Also there are cables that have no liner, the cables with no liner are not worth a single penny.
Both Barnett and Motion Pro will custom build cables, call them and they will send you drawings to confirm the design and lengths. Note they do hoses too.

Don't use heavy oil in the primary, I seal the primary (disconnect it from the motor oiling system) and use ATF in the primary. Heavy oil will cause drag especially when cold.
DO NOT adjust the primary chain on the tight side, better a little loose. Check it hot if you are in doubt.

110%
Sounds like you covered it very well, Thanks Burnout

[KatalogKarl]

  As my experience with both 3 and 5 studded hubs. Both 4-5-6  speed trannies. 3 is fine when mild and can take some hard uses. But I as well had bending and twisting on all parts due to me not being so kind to scoot. Went to 5 stud and all attachments known to man to improve reliability and working use, but not until Rivera products did it all come together. On another shovel still using a 5 studded hub And I Do launch this bike from rolling or even dead starts I have hard springs (orange) and aluminum pressure plate making sure all is centered on basket. The biggest improvement with this set up was Primo R's extra plate kit and in my closed primary  Transmission Fluid Yes (J.W113). Correct cable adjustment and no binding in cable helps. One scoot that has Rivera kit it is as stated here "LIKE BUTTER". FXR has 5 stud unit and finding neutral is no problem. Have had a situation when I used a regular fluid in transmission (60w motor oil) but it did not shift up and down smoothly enough. Then got onboard with newer age fluids. A object (clutch hub) spinning on a shaft and all might not be perfect or correct can cause issues. Rivera product tho pricey hands down works. Have seen many shovels with this problem and what owners have and will do is boggling. Mild Bike 3-5 finger is fine. If heartier power spend the money. Just my 2 cents..       

[One4Tone]

...For some reason shovel clutches tend to slip in 4th under wide open throttle especially the heavier bikes. I found the Barnett springs (red in colour) really help to cure  the problem. 5 finger hubs ...should be better than 3 , however for a stock bike it doesn't really matter. Sand blasting the steel plates, deglazing the disks will work. Using auto tranny fluid in the primary however not over filling it is key. It is there mostly for the chain...and if you have a wet clutch vs. dry . ..I would start with 6 to 8 ounces of (ATF)  tranny fluid and take it from there....Above all adjustment is key...start at the hub and work your way to the cable and finally the handlebar lever. You should have a tiny bit of free play. Use a manual if not sure.

[RTMike]

Replace it with a Bandit or Rivera pro clutch,this will fix the clutch problem forever

[david lee]

my question is can you get different tension springs to make lever pull easier thanks

[crock]

my question is can you get different tension springs to make lever pull easier thanks

You can but you ill sacrifice hold. Red springs with an aluminum release plate seem to be a happy medium

[One4Tone]

..like JW said...springs are vital. get a new hub...3 or 5 with good fingers. Might want to look into throw out bearing on the tranny (right side). I like the early model (shaped like bell)..There might be specific push rod length  between early and late throw out bearing.. I have had good luck with Barnett clutch plates and springs. On a kicker bike an poorly adjusted clutch wont give you a good rotation of the crank makin it harder to kickstart the bike. The stronger your motor the more demand on the clutch. Good luck with your project.