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S&S 95 Hot Setup Kit, goes to Doc next week

Started by mrmotoguzzi00, May 06, 2019, 09:00:27 AM

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mrmotoguzzi00

Been a long time since I posted... my first and only Harley is still the 04 road glide i bought at Laconia during bike week of 04 :)   At 40k miles and no issues figured it was time to check those cam tensioners while I was down after a shoulder surgery...  shoulda done em a while ago... almost down to the metal... i got lucky...  I'm gonna go with frequent oil/filter changes saved me but who knows...

As most of us do I did the "while im in it might as well as upgrade it" :)  I went with the kit simply because i mistakenly thought i would get everything i needed in one shot... ya... no... got a lot of parts but needed all kinds of bits and pieces....

Shoulda gone on here for a week and did research... but whats done is done...

Earl "Doc" weaver gets the bike next week to tune and will report back..

Before I broke it down it was just a stock 88 internals, well tuned stage 1, SE AC, SE slipons, power commander tuned by R&R In Manchester, NH  put out 78hp/80lbft or so... always ran mint... and walked away from stock 96ers...

Today it's a S&S hot-setup 95, Kit included jugs,pistons,rings etc,  super stock 79cc heads, 10.3 cr, 585g gear cams, Doc suggested... HPI 55m tbody, 1.8 intake, feuling 5.3 injectors...  hoping the starter will be ok with the cr, a call to S&S says it will.....

runout was .001  i checked a few times to be sure.... frankly surprised it was that small...

she started right up but only let run for 20 seconds or so... tune is not even close for the new motor... oil pressure came right up and valve clatter died off as pressure came up... so far so good...


will report back in a few weeks :)

Mike

'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

Hossamania

Good job, you're going to like the bump in power. Gear drives take all the worry of tensioners away, though they might make a little clatter when hot. Don't sweat it.
The nice thing about a Dyno tune and break in is that the motor will be ready to go for you, no need to "be gentle" with it. At least not on mine, it got ripped on day one.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

jrgreene1968

I bet it's gonnna be a good runner. You may regret not going with compression releases though.

digga25


838

Did you change exhaust, or sticking with the stock/SE combo??? Just curious..

joepenoso

Quote from: jrgreene1968 on May 06, 2019, 12:49:22 PM
I bet it's gonnna be a good runner. You may regret not going with compression releases though.

I got the same kit on my 2000 Dyna with compression releases.....never need them, unless the battery is worn out.90,000 km. still going strong!
joepenoso

mrmotoguzzi00

ok first off...Doc is the Man :)  Second he hated me cause it was a bitch to tune.... LOL  more on this...

ok, no he didn't end up using the SE slipons, Doc said he couldn't get the probe in there...    R&R bent the baffle to get the probe in for the stage 1 tune 10+ yrs ago... then bent it back when they where done... but no worries...

looking at the dynoject chart we got...

90+ degrees, 23% humidity

SAE 102hp/100lbft torque peaks 4250, hp at 6k....
STD 104hp/102lbft same peaks...

Doc says the 585 cam doesn't turn on till above 3k rpm and it shows that on the dyno and seat of the pants, there is a definite pull that starts around 3k...

Stock header is killing it too... he is recommending the SS part 498091 that has a crossover under the bike like the newer HD models...

Rear Cylinder is a bitch to tune....  Doc says that header will fix that...

Also recommended a few diff cams if i want to get some torque down lower...  TTS150 and if up cr from 10.3 to 10.7 a TMAN 590

Already planning on the new header and the TTS 150 cam,  I don't have compression releases and really don't want to do them if possible...

I'm happy.... i walked away easily from my buddies '17 rg that Doc also tuned with AC and Slipons....

I was hoping to be able to stay with the guys on the new touring bikes with their 103/107/114 etc....

Looks like I accomplished that and a bit more :)



'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

Lone Ranger

Quote from: mrmotoguzzi00 on May 06, 2019, 09:00:27 AM
Been a long time since I posted... my first and only Harley is still the 04 road glide i bought at Laconia during bike week of 04 :)   At 40k miles and no issues figured it was time to check those cam tensioners while I was down after a shoulder surgery...  shoulda done em a while ago... almost down to the metal... i got lucky...  I'm gonna go with frequent oil/filter changes saved me but who knows...

As most of us do I did the "while im in it might as well as upgrade it" :)  I went with the kit simply because i mistakenly thought i would get everything i needed in one shot... ya... no... got a lot of parts but needed all kinds of bits and pieces....

Shoulda gone on here for a week and did research... but whats done is done...

Earl "Doc" weaver gets the bike next week to tune and will report back..

Before I broke it down it was just a stock 88 internals, well tuned stage 1, SE AC, SE slipons, power commander tuned by R&R In Manchester, NH  put out 78hp/80lbft or so... always ran mint... and walked away from stock 96ers...

Today it's a S&S hot-setup 95, Kit included jugs,pistons,rings etc,  super stock 79cc heads, 10.3 cr, 585g gear cams, Doc suggested... HPI 55m tbody, 1.8 intake, feuling 5.3 injectors...  hoping the starter will be ok with the cr, a call to S&S says it will.....

runout was .001  i checked a few times to be sure.... frankly surprised it was that small...

she started right up but only let run for 20 seconds or so... tune is not even close for the new motor... oil pressure came right up and valve clatter died off as pressure came up... so far so good...


will report back in a few weeks :)

Mike

How much did all this cost you? I have a 2002 Fatboy I'd like to this too. I was hoping I could get it done for around $2000.

mrmotoguzzi00

Keep Saving :)

Tune is $450, and he isn't happy unless you use the TTS Master Tune $440(1 Time Cost)....   so 1st tune is $890

I spent more than I needed by using the SS Kit, I'm sure others can recommend a cheaper way to go.... thought i would save money... WRONG.

But here ya go...

SS 95" Hot Setup Kit, jugs/pistons/rings, Super Stock heads 79cc chambers, 585G Gear Driven Cams and most gaskets...  $3k
HPI 55mm Throttle Body $800
Feuling 5.3 Injectors $200

$200 in misc stuff that was broken, close to broken or just friggin too old to go back in...

I went bigger than needed with the injectors and tbody for future mods....

My Runout was very good at .001 which for 1999-2006 i guess is very rare according to Doc and others here on the board....  most are over .003 and hence too much for gear driven cams...


Doc says I need new header pipe and he doesn't like the 585g cam... he recommended TTS 150 or TMAN 590...

1 Thing I did learn talk to the Tuner before you buy anything!!!  Give Doc a buzz and see what he recommends...

Mike


http://www.docsperformancetuning.com/


'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

PoorUB

Quote from: mrmotoguzzi00 on May 16, 2019, 09:45:55 AM

I'm happy.... i walked away easily from my buddies '17 rg that Doc also tuned with AC and Slipons....

I was hoping to be able to stay with the guys on the new touring bikes with their 103/107/114 etc....

Looks like I accomplished that and a bit more :)


I had a warmed up 95" in my '05 Ultra. I managed to to tick off a couple braggers that had CVO's with 11O" engines. The 5 speed bikes with a decent 95" will should take a stock M8 in a drag race. Gearing is better and HP and torque is at least even or better. The stock M8 falls on it's face after 4,000 rpm.

I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

mrmotoguzzi00

You're right about the m8, looking at the dyno it just died around 4K... doc gave a cam and slip on recommendation so it will hold up longer... I'll get that if ya want or just call doc 😀.  Real world had him pulling me at 2k but I caught pretty quick... frankly I don't go full throttle till 3k anyway...
'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

mrmotoguzzi00

ok after more riding time.............


It's really not happy till i hit 2500 rpm or so.... little sluggish ?  not the right word.... it's expected based on the cam and the header but it does require ya pay attention at low speed... when it goes it goes... but it don't like off throttle or very minimal throttle....


REALLY have to pay attention once we start to roll into it,  it's so much quicker...  60mph pops up real quick...

I like it :)


oh and rev limiter I didn't realize he changed it.... hits at 6500 rpm versus 5600...

BOY does it sound just evil up there :)  This I REALLY REALLY like lol

Sorry poor Road Glide but your know a ripper not a tourer anymore....

Mike





'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

BVHOG

890 bucks and uses a Probe for tuning?  you need to get him in contact with Herko
If you don't have a sense of humor you probably have no sense at all.

mrmotoguzzi00

Ok been awhile, got some miles on her know... little over 1k... has smoothed out a bit and is smoother above 2k rpm... The buds are not happy... I walk away from them all :)  Still haven't gotten the SS header (but its in the plans..)  gonna stay with the cam, i like the lopey idle and pull at 3k....
'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

hattitude

Quote from: mrmotoguzzi00 on May 16, 2019, 10:41:50 AM

My Runout was very good at .001 which for 1999-2006 i guess is very rare according to Doc and others here on the board....  most are over .003 and hence too much for gear driven cams...


FWIW....

Actually, the early twin cams had the left timken bearing until 2002, and were considered to have the best bottom ends of all twin cam years... 2003s lost the timken bearing and then the crank got worse in 2004....

The newer the twin Cam, the higher the likely hood of big runout numbers...

Harley changed the acceptable runout to higher numbers a couple times through the twin cam run, rather than tighten the manufacturing specs/quality control of the cranks... I think they ended up with an acceptable runout of around .012 by 2012ish...

Justpassingas

Quote from: hattitude on February 21, 2020, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: mrmotoguzzi00 on May 16, 2019, 10:41:50 AM

My Runout was very good at .001 which for 1999-2006 i guess is very rare according to Doc and others here on the board....  most are over .003 and hence too much for gear driven cams...


FWIW....

The newer the twin Cam, the higher the likely hood of big runout numbers...

Harley changed the acceptable runout to higher numbers a couple times through the twin cam run, rather than tighten the manufacturing specs/quality control of the cranks... I think they ended up with an acceptable runout of around .012 by 2012ish...

My 09 SG @ 96K is in the shop now getting freshened up. I wanted to go gear drive if the runout was good but it turns out it had .012 so I'm going with a new S&S crank
For Duty and Humanity

JW113

Quote from: hattitude on February 21, 2020, 10:27:27 PM
Actually, the early twin cams had the left timken bearing until 2002, and were considered to have the best bottom ends of all twin cam years... 2003s lost the timken bearing and then the crank got worse in 2004....

Although I agree that eliminating the twin Timkens was a bad move, I don't think the crank assembly was any better for the '99-'02 models. A good bud had a 2000 RK, which scissored the crank REAL bad, I sold him the one from my '04 (had .002 runout) when I went with a 113". At some point, the shop guys would know better than me, HD increased the interference fit of the flywheels to crank pin, which seems to have greatly reduced the scissoring problem.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

hattitude

Quote from: JW113 on February 22, 2020, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: hattitude on February 21, 2020, 10:27:27 PM
Actually, the early twin cams had the left timken bearing until 2002, and were considered to have the best bottom ends of all twin cam years... 2003s lost the timken bearing and then the crank got worse in 2004....

Although I agree that eliminating the twin Timkens was a bad move, I don't think the crank assembly was any better for the '99-'02 models. A good bud had a 2000 RK, which scissored the crank REAL bad, I sold him the one from my '04 (had .002 runout) when I went with a 113". At some point, the shop guys would know better than me, HD increased the interference fit of the flywheels to crank pin, which seems to have greatly reduced the scissoring problem.

-JW

Probably the same assembly, but I had read where they used different cranks. This is from saved notes, not from personal hands-on experience...

"Harley Twin Cam crank changes:

'99-'02 hot forged/Timken, 4.000" stroke
'03-'04 cold forged/roller, 4.000" stroke
'05-'06 cast/roller, 4.000" stroke
'06 Dyna cast/roller, 4.000" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.
'07-present cast/roller, 4.375" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.

There was some overlap between model years as it was as "running" change. If in doubt, you can check by removing your crank position sensor and, using a flashlight, look at the flywheel OD. If the sensor trips are machined you have a hot or cold forged unit."

mrmotoguzzi00

Ok been awhile.... again.... just about to hit 3k miles since the build, finally installed the bigger S&S Header (550-0003) like the tuner suggested when my rear pipe cracked where they all do, at the split... the lower bracket was broken as well... judging by the rust, it's been busted a while...  oops... 

It changed the sound, cleaner ? less muffled ? and it revs quicker, less restriction I guess ?

Assuming I got some more torque, it was easy to break loose in 1st but know it will let go in 2nd pretty easy if I'm not careful...

Honestly I'm not that careful :)  it's fun to be a hooligan once in awhile..

Boy this is fun...  eventually will take it back to the tuner, but the plugs look good after 100 miles so I'm in no rush...

Mike







'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL

mrmotoguzzi00

Forgot another quick update, Stock battery at full charge would turn it over slow for 1 crank then catch and backfire and scare the neighbors/kids/pets.. a little entertaining but not great for it :)

I upgraded from the stock 400cca battery to a lithium battery at 560cca, boy she turns over like it's got no plugs in it and starts up with no backfire or drama... and light ?  i thought the box was empty when they handed it to me... and is not a direct swap... it's so light the clamp didn't really hold it well, had to make rubber spacers around it to secure it well.

Was worth the $300 bucks with a 3yr warranty from batteries plus down here in Florida...



'04 Road Glide
UPDATED - Nokomis, FL