1980 Ironhead primary cover with part numbers or a PDF of parts Manual

Started by KatalogKarl, May 29, 2019, 05:46:35 AM

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KatalogKarl

Ironhead riders or wrenchers.  Wondering if anyone has or can point me in a direction of the parts manual for XL's 1979-1983. A PDF is not out of the question either. A friend brought me his 1980 XLH. He has clutch issues. I found threads here that can help me along. But went looking for Pics of exploded views with #s and alot has changed a bit in online world and not available. Have Service manual but would like Parts as there are other things wrong. As followed in a few threads sportsters are there own PIA's. Thanks  :chop: 

JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

KatalogKarl


JW113

Round up a Tamer II. #1 reason for sporty clutch issues is the basket wobble I think. I also find using type F ATF works wonders in the pri/trans.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

twincamzz

Quote from: JW113 on May 30, 2019, 07:48:33 AM
Round up a Tamer II. #1 reason for sporty clutch issues is the basket wobble I think. I also find using type F ATF works wonders in the pri/trans.

-JW

I run type F ATF in the primary/transmission too. That's what Barnett recommends for their clutch kit.
not all who wander are lost...

KatalogKarl

Just a follow up. 6-19. Thanks to those listed here. Found parts and went to install. All went w/o hitch except when doing cable adjustment and shifter mechanism. But to be honest enough when one goes to help someone else out on there scoot CHEAPNESS usually follows. Had to use old clutch cable with broken/separated adjusting top nut. Also 1/2 of shifter mechanism that touches release disc had a nice shiny gauge in it. So swapping out shifter parts and making the cable work after a few hours got it to work. Put ATF fluid into primary and let owner ride it. After 5-10 minutes he was happy and all was good? Next day he tries to take it home and cannot get it into or out of 1st and sometimes 2nd. He got it home and told me its the ATF fluid. He then changed it to 20-50 motor oil and text me that it is all fine and good.  So maybe I should have changed my tele# but I am too nice. Again he told me that now it works fine and shifts okay but he cannot get it into 1st when engines off and tells me he has to really pull foot up to get it into second.(running) When I looked at this bike again before touching anything I noticed that there is so much slap/looseness within the shifter pedal. No matter how tight you try to tighten this you can literally pull the shifter off. My suggestion was to him HE should either replace the shifter pedal and might as replace the shifter shaft going from primary to transmission. Knowing that the whole right side of engine needs to be taken apart, Any ideas here of what's causing some of these problems? He also tells me when he took primry  cover off he never found the 3rd ball bearing from the shifter mechanism. Could the ball bearing end up in the tranny? or would it get ripped apart by the chain? Or something else and just change my phone number?  Sportsters were never my strongest even having one. But never had a problem like this. So is it me?. I know this may get moved because its off topic. But again thanks to those for help..Karl

Burnout

If there are not 3 balls in the release mech it will not work.

XL will not be happy with ATF in the primary.
I would use Formula+ from the MoCo or one of the aftermarket XL trans lubes.

It's not ever going to shift right until the clutch releases fully.

VTwin sells a complete new release mechanism. 18-8155
balls 50 pack 18-0157 
snap ring 10 pack 18-0903

If it is not mistreated the balls will not fall out of it.
If it is over-traveled it will damage the snap ring and the balls will fall out.
Install the primary cover like this to hold the mech in place, run the screw in before releasing the grips.



The XL forum has a "how to" for correct adjustment. http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=465866

Note the sleeves on the studs are easily crushed by over-tightening, if they are crushed it will not release flat and drag.
DO NOT USE the single spring hop up, Use the stock dual spring, they are counter wound.
Use new nylocks on the pressure plate every time!
If the primary chain is too tight the clutch will drag.

I'd refuse to work on it if he doesn't want to buy the needed parts to fix it right.
That situation is never a win win, and you are the bad guy because you last worked on it.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

KatalogKarl

Burnout :up: Thanks. Agreed on all. ATF a no no. The 3 balls on shift mechanism, I made sure I used white lube and they sat and stuck in place. Did something Like You have shown to keep all in Place. Snap ring was missing when I first started trying to put this clutch and cover back together. Clutch release plate and adjusters I got him all new. The 6 spacers that fit on studs for spacing plates were out of round and a couple where stuck. Stock clutch springs used, and made sure of at least 1-8th minimum of distance from drive plate to release plate Made sure it was all even around. Now I will say a point might be that I may have primary chain on a tight spot. Yeah wondered that one myself. 5/8 of a inch is tight. This guy had :banghead: all adjustments Loose very Loose. Could be what he is used too. Your dead-on with I will be the bad guy.. Where I live majority of folks are cash strapped except for cold suds or mother natures Plant product. No idea of how to look up or even the backing(moolah). Older dude who has 10k on a rebuild never realizing why his bike would creep with clutch handle pulled in and never looked over his work. Am sure he will be asking me to look into it. Just about a freebie except for parts. Should learn my lesson. Thanks again..karl   

JW113

I don't understand why you guys are down on ATF, but that's cool. All I've ever used in Ironhead primary/trans is ATF, and have none of the problems being described here. All it is, is oil with friction modifiers and anti-foaming agents in it.

I can't recommend one of these enough:

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/620-686/j-p-cycles-the-tamer-ii-for-sportster-models

Agree with Rick, if your customer wants to go cheap, then send him somewhere else. Do it right or don't do it at all.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

KatalogKarl

 :agree: On all points. As I posted before I may have tightened primary chain a bit snug, but within what I read in my manual. Forgoing what I read either here on HTTP or other directed to forums not really being a sportster specialist all scoots have there tendencies. But I should for my own sake look at the human holding the handlebars. :wtf: Not bashing ATF. I have to use it in my shovel prim. recommended by Rivera Primo for there clutches. Work in 2 Indy shops in the 80's hawking parts. Then went to hawk parts for commercial aircraft. Never a issue with funding for right equipment But from what I am trying to understand with this dude what might or is working for them is okay. But you and I probably will work away from these people. Its where I live and probably be trading farm animals or home defense equipment for parts and labor. And yes a few gals have been offered. Just my 2 cents and not here to offend or get thrown off here. PRIMO reason I support and use this forum. Thanks all. Will let you know of updates or other far fetching dealing..karl

KatalogKarl

Just to update again. spoke to customer and advised him to loosen primary chain. A call back he did as suggested But wants to still use 20-50 motor oil for primary/trans. I offered for free a more current fluid as suggested but he refused. Finding out that Now primary chain may be hitting inner primary or a NOISE is now heard. His clutch is fine that I replaced, but still refuses to straighten out shifter pedal issues and clutch cable and primary cover elongated hole for cable to run threw it. He has another fitting in order to run clutch cable threw it. So thank you all. As replied by " Burnout" Yep I am probably the bad guy in the room. Because I touched it last Might catch him on the side of the road for Not listening to me.. And I have a sportster and no issues like this. Do it right or do not do it at all. Not many shops here less than 10. So none wants to touch anything older than 10 years. 

Burnout

I love working on the older bikes, not so much the newer ones.
But I will not tolerate anyone telling me how i should fix one.
If you bring me your bike to have it fixed show me respect by allowing me to do my job right. Don't just use me up for cheap rates to do cave man repairs.

I like ATF for clutches, I have no proof that ATF is bad in an Ironhead trans, I just think that a higher viscosity oil is what they were designed around and is probably best.
I also prefer gearcase lube rather than motor oil for the best additives, there's no combustion byproducts in the trans so it does not need the detergents.
My statement to not use ATF was too strong, any oil is better than none....
Up til 76 the trans oil and the motor oil was somewhat shared (via the transfer valve) to try lessen the effects of sumping, and up to 60w was recommended so what the heck....send it!
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

Not saying any of that is wrong, far from it. I just have a slightly different take on ATF. Is not an automatic transmission a gear case? What is in a Sporty transmission that is not also in an automatic transmission? Gears and clutches. ATF is formulated to accommodate both. Not to mention, most automatic transmission have to handle far, far more torque and load than what a Sportster is capable of. At least that's the way I see it, and until I prove myself wrong (i.e. harm done to transmission) will continue to use it.

cheers,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

guppymech

Quote from: JW113 on June 24, 2019, 04:25:57 PM
Not saying any of that is wrong, far from it. I just have a slightly different take on ATF. Is not an automatic transmission a gear case? What is in a Sporty transmission that is not also in an automatic transmission? Gears and clutches. ATF is formulated to accommodate both. Not to mention, most automatic transmission have to handle far, far more torque and load than what a Sportster is capable of. At least that's the way I see it, and until I prove myself wrong (i.e. harm done to transmission) will continue to use it.

cheers,
JW

I don't think the issue with ATF is gear tooth or bearing wear, it's shifter clutch dog wear were the thicker oils help.  Automatic and manual car transmissions don't have anything like the dogs in a H-D trans.
'84 FXE, '02 883R

Burnout

An Automatic trans is like a Swiss Watch compared to an Ironhead trans.

They put ATF in modern truck transfer cases, but I would not put it in a pre 70's transfer case.

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

When the shift dogs wear out, you can say "I told you so". Until then, I'll just enjoy how smooth it shifts, does not creep in neutral, easy to find neutral, and clutch is smooth as butter.
:SM:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Burnout

Yep, ATF makes a good working clutch happier, and can help with a poor clutch.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"