Oil pressure fluctuation

[pwmorris]

Yup, LM 10-60.
Glad you figured it out. Put some real, hard miles on it and recheck.
Also check oil level, as I run a quart low.
Your heads need a one way check valve and all your lines back there to a catch can, with the can vertically vented to atmosphere. With smart planning and efficient layout, you should be able to keep the lines almost unnoticed and clean-and still functional and safe (should you have catastrophic engine failure and a sudden oil dump-which would be devastating to lines running to ground anywhere near rear tire).

[Kllongbrake]

Yup, LM 10-60.
Glad you figured it out. Put some real, hard miles on it and recheck.
Also check oil level, as I run a quart low.
Your heads need a one way check valve and all your lines back there to a catch can, with the can vertically vented to atmosphere. With smart planning and efficient layout, you should be able to keep the lines almost unnoticed and clean-and still functional and safe (should you have catastrophic engine failure and a sudden oil dump-which would be devastating to lines running to ground anywhere near rear tire).

I'll look for some check valves and a catch can. Any advice as far as good brands or specific product?
What's the purpose of the check valve? Does the umbrella valve not keep it from huffing in air?
I know another guy here personally and he uses that 10-60 too. Maybe I'll give it a shot. Been using redline 20-60 for a couple years but I'm open to trying something different if it'll quiet this pig down just a smidge.
Thanks for the knowledge. Appreciate it.

[pwmorris]

I run a Pingel as they also sell a nice bracket that bolts solid to our Harley frames.
No need to spend big bucks on the one way check valves. I've run them from a variety of sources, including off a Mitsubishi Raider, Auto Zone, S&S, ACS https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php (if you are running AN stuff) Jegs, and other sources. To save real estate, you can "T" the heads and check valve after the "T", and other tricks I use to clean up the final product. A bagger should have all kinds of pockets, gaps, and nooks and crannies to tuck stuff away and end up with a super sano look. Stare at it, step back and find areas to run this stuff. Take your time as function first, last, and always in my book.
I did recently add a second catch can dedicated to just my oil tank, but that is due to having extra hidden space now and not needing to "T" my head, case and tank vents into one line going to the catch can. See my recent, last page posts on my 126" rebuild on this topic.
Again, my system is a bit complicated and maybe overkill for a mild 130 HP 124" touring bike that seldom sees above 5 grand on a regular basis.
http://www.pingelonline.com/pc_combined_results.asp
You need to plan, design, and think of covering everything in a clean, efficient way. Pluming these bigger engines can be as efficient as you dream it to be....or a tangled mess of lines, clamps, hoses, lines running the wrong way, and zip ties.
Think, efficient, clean, and effective. This takes work and planning.
Would love you to post how you designed yours, when all done.

[1workinman]

Yup, LM 10-60.
Glad you figured it out. Put some real, hard miles on it and recheck.
Also check oil level, as I run a quart low.
Your heads need a one way check valve and all your lines back there to a catch can, with the can vertically vented to atmosphere. With smart planning and efficient layout, you should be able to keep the lines almost unnoticed and clean-and still functional and safe (should you have catastrophic engine failure and a sudden oil dump-which would be devastating to lines running to ground anywhere near rear tire).

Paul I appreciate all the advice here , I have used your advice on the breathers , check valves , venting the oil tank . When I was doing my breathers on my 124 I finally just built what I wanted by silver solder what I wanted in a fitting .   I lower my oil level a tad on the bikes as I was using the 4 dots low checked hot but lower is good . Not sure how much on the dip stick is the new measurement . I  started using the10-60 LQ when Ray posted the information . I yet to have the ticking of the lifters hot idle but I wondered if I would as the oil pressure drop at idle hot is significant . I don't know how low the pressure has to go at idle but it seem to be very close to the event.

[1workinman]

Paul I have wondered if the limiters would help in these instances where low oil pressure might help a lifter from collapsing . I assume there the growth of the cylinders but the limiters might help some since with a lot of lift and spring pressure may help the lifter bleed off with hot thin oil and oil pressure that is lower from idling

[pwmorris]

That's an interesting thought , and not sure.
Based on time lifters normally need to collapse in oil baths, and bleed down time needed to lock down pushrods when setting TDC settings (although with really hot oil going thru), I would love to see a test of this.....not sure how to do this test to verify results.
Limiters act similar to solids, and on race applications I've used with solids, I haven't seen this type of oil psi fluctuation on a gauge, but have seen oil pressure consistently dropping (hot, hotter, etc, and thinning occurs resulting in oil dropping pressure) over time. But have seen this with all lifters.
As far as pressure....
I don't really care, nor do I want, my parts, top to bottom, soaked in an oil bath (especially don't want my bottom end moving like stuck in a swimming pool-robbing HP).
With today's modern synthetics, if temps are consistent (I DO NOT run an oil cooler-I run a quart low), sufficiently lubricated parts can last many, many miles under normal street operating conditions.
As long as top to bottom is sufficiently and consistently fed a healthy supply of oil (you can test this), recycled, and returned under conditions how you normally ride (drive the highway, stop at Starbucks, meet buddies on the blvd vs, for example, my street bike that likes to spin it up regularly, a drag bike or Bonneville bike), bike cubes, lift and compression.................I'm good with it.

[1workinman]

Thanks I appreciate the reply .  I don't see a down side to limits and I think lifters are a maintenance item so I going to use them next time . 

[pwmorris]

Yup, thats exactly how I look at wear parts....they ain't a 5 grand Jewel Valvetrain, but simply like comps (I raised a stink here during the worn compensator debates a few years ago), saying "look, under any hard use or hi rpm application, replace the comp, like any other wear part"-when guys were saying "I only got 15K on my comp and it's wearing out and starting to make noise! Harley sucks!"
It's like a lifter, chain, tires, or other hard load part. No big deal.....just replace it.
Geez....
I do like my Premium S&S lifters with limiters though.......Remember, I have run for a few years now hard with .675 EZ's, 1.7's and healthy comp on my street 126". They get a workout on a regular basis and I love it-and my motor loves it.
Other than Jesel (not a street lifter)....best lifters I've ever run.
BTW, just for disclosure, I did blow apart a standard S&S lifter (non Premium-no limiters) on a Dyno at hard flogging a dozen years ago or so. Dumped and sprayed oil all over the dyno (another reason for guys not to run vent lines to the ground!). Lifter bearings destroyed......
These new Premiums with limiters are a huge upgrade everywhere.
After the stock S&S, I ran Jim's hydrosolids before these Premiums, and they worked well for me (although showed some wear).
Adding these new bad boys with limiters, and I don't even thing about this area of the valvetrain any more...just rip and ride.....
Street or strip.

[1workinman]

Ok I know when to take good advice I use them, the 675 with the 1.7 should be a good test especially at the 126 rpm range .  I don't mind replacing before failure lol lot cheaper.

[RoadKingKohn]

I'm thinkin it could be a loose oil intake line at a fitting drawing air but I suspect it would drip when the oil was hot and thin.  Does your oil look foamy or creamy with air?  Another thought not mentioned is the bypass spool in the cam plate. It might be hanging up when hot only from a tight fit and expansion. Or even the spring.

KD, Could you please explain what the foamy or creamy with air oil is a sign of?

Thank you

[kd]

I'm thinkin it could be a loose oil intake line at a fitting drawing air but I suspect it would drip when the oil was hot and thin.  Does your oil look foamy or creamy with air?  Another thought not mentioned is the bypass spool in the cam plate. It might be hanging up when hot only from a tight fit and expansion. Or even the spring.

KD, Could you please explain what the foamy or creamy with air oil is a sign of?

Thank you

I used to run clear reinforced oil lines and noticed some oils seemed to carry air bubbles when running.  I actually stopped using Castrol oil because it was so extreme.  The foaming can be just the way the oil reacts to the passing through the oil pump gears. Air bubbles in the oil reduce the application of lubricant between surfaces.

The foamy and creamy colored oil is usually related to short trips and not getting the oil up to temp long enough to remove the resulting condensation.  If for example you only ride to work and back, and the job is only a few minutes away, the engine oil gathers moisture.  That moisture mixes with air and the oil, resulting in a light tan (ish) color.  Kinda like coffee with cream in it instead of without.  It is most noticeable if you remove the oil filler / dipstick cap and if it is occurring you will see a buildup around the cooler spout area and underside of the oil cap.  It happens more in cooler weather.  The remedy is to take the scenic route and ride the bike longer    Get the oil temp up higher and longer to evaporate the moisture. The oil is still good but now mixed with moisture and needs time at higher temp to return to normal.  It is not a good idea to store the bike with this condition as the mix of condensation and oil additives produce acids.  These harsh chemicals can scar the bearing surfaces and places like the oil relief spool valve causing surface damage. 

[RoadKingKohn]

I'm thinkin it could be a loose oil intake line at a fitting drawing air but I suspect it would drip when the oil was hot and thin.  Does your oil look foamy or creamy with air?  Another thought not mentioned is the bypass spool in the cam plate. It might be hanging up when hot only from a tight fit and expansion. Or even the spring.

KD, Could you please explain what the foamy or creamy with air oil is a sign of?

Thank you

I used to run clear reinforced oil lines and noticed some oils seemed to carry air bubbles when running.  I actually stopped using Castrol oil because it was so extreme.  The foaming can be just the way the oil reacts to the passing through the oil pump gears. Air bubbles in the oil reduce the application of lubricant between surfaces.

The foamy and creamy colored oil is usually related to short trips and not getting the oil up to temp long enough to remove the resulting condensation.  If for example you only ride to work and back, and the job is only a few minutes away, the engine oil gathers moisture.  That moisture mixes with air and the oil, resulting in a light tan (ish) color.  Kinda like coffee with cream in it instead of without.  It is most noticeable if you remove the oil filler / dipstick cap and if it is occurring you will see a buildup around the cooler spout area and underside of the oil cap.  It happens more in cooler weather.  The remedy is to take the scenic route and ride the bike longer    Get the oil temp up higher and longer to evaporate the moisture. The oil is still good but now mixed with moisture and needs time at higher temp to return to normal.  It is not a good idea to store the bike with this condition as the mix of condensation and oil additives produce acids.  These harsh chemicals can scar the bearing surfaces and places like the oil relief spool valve causing surface damage.

Well that just described the situation I have been having and the conditions of my ride. This is one of the reasons why I use an oil with a TBN of 12 or higher.  That helps to control the acids.

On my 2005 95" Twin Cam about two years ago I started getting a lot of oil into my air cleaner.  I have been looking into adding a breather but in all of the reading I am doing I am starting to think that my stock oil pump started to die around 60,000 miles and I have 72,000 now.

So this is good information.

Thank you

[Norton Commando]

What's the purpose of the check valve? Does the umbrella valve not keep it from huffing in air?

The umbrella valves do keep the crankcase from inhaling air.  Some folks that by-pass the airfilter with their vent lines will install an additional check valve as a belt-and-suspenders approach to keeping the crankcase from sucking in air.

Jason