Author Topic: Yet another oil pump change  (Read 4085 times)

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Offline rbabos

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2019, 03:52:36 PM »
Ron, when are you guys gonna come up with a fix for everything so HD can steal it. Between the bean counters and underpaid engineers they are never get this M8 straightened up! :hyst:
I'm too busy enjoying my v rod. You know, the one engine they got right before unleashing it to the public. Besides, I'm still licking my wounds from the last episode. Stop reminding me. :slap: :teeth:
Ron

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2019, 08:11:33 PM »
Funny thing about the VRod, one piece forged crankshaft. I don't recall any complaints of crankshaft run out. You would think that HD could learn from it's self! :banghead:

Plus the crankshaft sells for $375!! :dgust: Of course, to be fair one would have to include the con rods and bearings, but still about 60% of the price of a factory TC crank. Why does the MoCo insist on these pressed together cranks?? :idunno:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline rbabos

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2019, 05:53:54 AM »
Funny thing about the VRod, one piece forged crankshaft. I don't recall any complaints of crankshaft run out. You would think that HD could learn from it's self! :banghead:

Plus the crankshaft sells for $375!! :dgust: Of course, to be fair one would have to include the con rods and bearings, but still about 60% of the price of a factory TC crank. Why does the MoCo insist on these pressed together cranks?? :idunno:
Well, it's cheaper then the 5 piece bolt together previous versions. I really have issue with the runout tolerances from HD. I use to fly a 582 Rotax engine and eventually came to it's rebuild hours. Being a pressed 2 cyl inline crank, it's quite long in comparison. In the box for the new crank there's a tag. It states measure the runout. Max is .001 anywhere. If over , send it back for replacement. Here we have HD with it's stubby crank with an allowed .013 max runout. Seriously? Even the lesser quality 583 snowmobile engine had a max of .003. I might add after 300 hours of screaming at 6000-6500 rpm, the old crank was still within Rotax specs. Personally, I prefer a one piece forged crank like I have now. Press cranks better suited for 2 strokes that use roller bearing rods. I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank. Tradition is hard to break away from. This is what the v rod crank looks like.
Ron
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 07:06:43 AM by rbabos »

Offline FSG

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2019, 02:09:39 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank.

there's ways around that but it's not in any of the boxes that HD has cared to look in and it'd cost more than a nickle anyway so there's no chance of it ever happening 

Offline rbabos

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2019, 02:18:33 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure the Harley faithfull can tolerate that 1" cylinder offset with a one piece forged crank.

there's ways around that but it's not in any of the boxes that HD has cared to look in and it'd cost more than a nickle anyway so there's no chance of it ever happening
Yup, master, slave rod arrangement for a plain bearing setup. It's worked for Pratt and Whitney for ions on the radials. True, it's always about costs in the end. Here's one such example. Oiling system would need to be set for pressure, rather then current metered cam plate dribble. Not sure if scavenge would keep up either.
Ron
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 03:22:57 PM by rbabos »

Online Geezer_Glider

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2019, 09:27:37 AM »
They can even stay with forked rods as in the Merlin and Allison V12 engines. Wouldn't be too expensive and could even be adapted to the current engine (hint, hint!). Must add a side dig, 43K miles on a junk M8 Ultra, no sump, no transfer, no problems except clutch switch fixed while under warranty.
Just saying,
R Meyer

Offline les

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2019, 12:05:49 PM »
You guys using loctite on the piston oiler screws? I used blue when I did mine.

I've not yet done piston jets on an M8, but have many times on twin cam engines.  I use purple loctite on those piston jet screws.  It's the only fastener that I use purple.  I suspect that I'd use purple on the M8 jet screws too.

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2019, 07:25:07 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 07:44:58 AM by HD Street Performance »

Offline guppymech

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2019, 08:26:07 AM »
From my A&P schooling textbooks,   Since the master rod tips from side to side while it is carried around by the crankshaft, the link rod(s) follow a elliptical path instead of the circular path required for uniform movement.  For this reason there is less than 40 deg crankshaft travel between the TDC  positions of some pistons and more than 40 deg travel between the TDC positions of other pistons (9 cyl radial).  To get accurate timing between all the cylinders the magneto points cam had differently spaced lobes and was called a Compensated Cam.  The difference in timing on a 9 cyl radial with cylinders spaced every 40 deg could be as much as 2.5 degrees.
I wonder if Fuelling took this timing variation into account with their new crank/rod assy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKipX5WA14
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 08:34:57 AM by guppymech »
'84 FXE, '02 883R

Offline IronButt70

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2019, 10:11:21 AM »
From my A&P schooling textbooks,   Since the master rod tips from side to side while it is carried around by the crankshaft, the link rod(s) follow a elliptical path instead of the circular path required for uniform movement.  For this reason there is less than 40 deg crankshaft travel between the TDC  positions of some pistons and more than 40 deg travel between the TDC positions of other pistons (9 cyl radial).  To get accurate timing between all the cylinders the magneto points cam had differently spaced lobes and was called a Compensated Cam.  The difference in timing on a 9 cyl radial with cylinders spaced every 40 deg could be as much as 2.5 degrees.
I wonder if Fuelling took this timing variation into account with their new crank/rod assy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKipX5WA14
Those 28 cylinder engines on the B-29 must have been fun to time.  :emoGroan:
Rollin down lifes hiway never looking back cuz something might be gaining on me

Offline Ken R

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2019, 01:52:22 PM »
Do all 2019's suffer from  loose jets? 
7,500 miles on mine so far and no symptoms of sumping. 

If no sumping occurs, does it mean the the jets are fine?

Mine was built in November of 2018, I think.




Offline BigT

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2019, 02:39:36 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?
The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

Offline jamminhd2000

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2019, 01:30:59 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?
The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

Big T are you running a stock motor or do you have performance upgrades? Thanks...Jimmy

Offline BigT

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Re: Yet another oil pump change
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2019, 03:24:17 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/FEULINGParts/posts/1368854379955126?comment_id=1368953403278557&reply_comment_id=1369634089877155

Feuling forged crank and master slave rod arrangement, plain insert bearings

So this thread has been around a while what is the current status of the sumping issue? Does Harleys  62400247  kit fix the issue?
The latest 8 lobe H-D pump seems to have worked for me. I get about 4oz of oil to drain after numerous tests.

Big T are you running a stock motor or do you have performance upgrades? Thanks...Jimmy

I have a 124