Camplate Failure

[Thermodyne]

Had a noise in the scooter over the weekend.  Began with a short little tappet rattle on cold start.  The turned into a non rhythmic chirpy rattle noise.  Sort of sounded like a nut or something getting tossed around inside the cam chest.

Tore it down and found this. 

https://youtu.be/YutmW_F-mmw

I think the bushing rotated in the cam plate and blocked the oil port.  But I'm not sure.







Cam chest is full of shavings, but the pump looks fine.  Some yellow chips in the screen and some steel particles on the magnets. 



It ran really sweet till it didn't.  about 2200 miles since the upgrade was done. 

At this point I'll say that this is disappointing.  I'll wait and see how it sorts out before saying more. 

[rbabos]

Wow. That's pretty bad. Most likely lack of lube.
Ron

[Prostock]

Whats the inner cam bearing look like?

[To The Max]

A friend if mine pulled one out that looked like that same brand I think.Max

[Sunny Jim]

Check crank run out.

[Thermodyne]

A friend if mine pulled one out that looked like that same brand I think.Max

Inner looks fine, but it'll get a new one.  Not worth taking a chance on.

[Thermodyne]

Check crank run out.

It was .0025 when the cam went in. 

[Thermodyne]

I've been looking this thing over, and I cant figure out how that bushing is oiled.

The oem plate has a galley that runs to the cam bore with a metering hole in the bore.

This one has what looks like the remains of a metering hole in the bushing, but I can't tell where it got oil from.  There is no galley to match the oem one.  So that would leave them to drill the feed hole at and angle into one of the other galleys, but I can't see it. 

[Ohio HD]

I haven't seen the M8 internals in person but per this diagram, doesn't the cam get oil from the same lifter oil galley passages? The S&S cam plate doesn't have a feed on the back side then?

Per the manual, the plain cam bearing, the lifters, and the cooling jets are on the same oil circuit. Could the cooling jets be loose and leaking?


[attach=0]

[Thermodyne]

I haven't seen the M8 internals in person but per this diagram, doesn't the cam get oil from the same lifter oil galley passages? The S&S cam plate doesn't have a feed on the back side then?

Per the manual, the plain cam bearing, the lifters, and the cooling jets are on the same oil circuit. Could the cooling jets be loose and leaking?


[attach=0,msg1314076]

The S&S plate does not have the oil galley at the top left [8], that feeds the cam bore on the oem plate.  I don't know for sure, but it gets its oil from below the bushing bore, could be from the cross bore that feed the tensioner.  Where the filter return crosses under the cam bearing.

I found a photo of a new plate that shows the oil port in the bushing.  Not a great shot, but looks to be located at the bottom.



In the plate that failed, what's left of that port has rotated around to about 7 oclock.  The rotation is in the direction of cam rotation.  And the bushing wear seems to have occurred after it rotated, as it matches the wear on the plate itself. 





So my theory is the bushing walked and blocked the oil flow.  And like a lot of indexed bushing pressed into aluminum, prolly needs a pin.  Or an oil grove on the outer surface.   

[Jmd897]

Yea I was going between the S&S and Feuling and decided the later due to the S&S failures I have been seeing. 

[Nastytls]

Bummer!!
If there are shavings in there how are you going to get them out of the cases without splitting them?

[PoorUB]

Check crank run out.

It was .0025 when the cam went in.

Check it again.

[borno]

I'd be P.O.ed, you get top grade parts so crap like this doesn't happen.

[Mule]

A lot of S&S stuff is made off shore now days....

[Helmwurst]

Great !! Just what I needed to see. Wonder if mine is the one prone to fail or one of the more reliable ones !!??

[Buglet]

    I like to know what S&S has to say about this.

[Thermodyne]

Check crank run out.

It was .0025 when the cam went in.

Check it again.

Still .0025.

[BVHOG]

How long ago did you install this?  Part of the late release of the plates was the bushings being too tight.

[Thermodyne]

How long ago did you install this?  Part of the late release of the plates was the bushings being too tight.

I did the original work back in the middle of June. 

[Thermodyne]

I have a couple of shout- outs on this.

A big one to Fuelmoto for taking hold of this and walking it up to S&S for me.  Great customer service.  Shipping the replacements before I return the old stuff is really outstanding.

And another shout-out to S&S for standing behind all of the parts.  They are replacing everything except the tappet cuffs, and pushrods.  And they are buying me a new oil pan to replace the one on the scooter. 

So I'm only out the time and some oil and a filter. 

[Ohio HD]

All things considered, that's not a terrible compromise. I hope they get back with you on exact cause.

[Durwood]

I have a couple of shout- outs on this.

A big one to Fuelmoto for taking hold of this and walking it up to S&S for me.  Great customer service.  Shipping the replacements before I return the old stuff is really outstanding.

And another shout-out to S&S for standing behind all of the parts.  They are replacing everything except the tappet cuffs, and pushrods.  And they are buying me a new oil pan to replace the one on the scooter. 

So I'm only out the time and some oil and a filter.

That is great customer service. There are going to be issues with parts in any industry, it's how the seller/mfg handles these issues that make the difference.

Hat's off to Fuel Moto and S&S for stepping up to the plate.

[Helmwurst]

I have a couple of shout- outs on this.

A big one to Fuelmoto for taking hold of this and walking it up to S&S for me.  Great customer service.  Shipping the replacements before I return the old stuff is really outstanding.

And another shout-out to S&S for standing behind all of the parts.  They are replacing everything except the tappet cuffs, and pushrods.  And they are buying me a new oil pan to replace the one on the scooter. 

So I'm only out the time and some oil and a filter.

I am assuming the cuffs and pushrods were not damaged ??

[les]

I have a couple of shout- outs on this.

A big one to Fuelmoto for taking hold of this and walking it up to S&S for me.  Great customer service.  Shipping the replacements before I return the old stuff is really outstanding.

And another shout-out to S&S for standing behind all of the parts.  They are replacing everything except the tappet cuffs, and pushrods.  And they are buying me a new oil pan to replace the one on the scooter. 

So I'm only out the time and some oil and a filter.

I can't think of anything more they can do to make it right.