2020 M8's

[PoorUB]

Knowing how the typical Harley tech will not measure anything, just drop in the kit and flash the calibration into the ECM, 12 hours is excessive. I have done a top end and cams in about eight hours and I don't do it very often.

[scott7d]

Ok, it's been a few years now since the introduction of the M8. After all this time have they made any progress in addressing the issues they were having IE. sumping and oil transfer or is it still a roll of the dice as to weather or not the new bike you buy may still be prone to these issues? I know there were concerns about the rocker arms and valve adjustments etc. What has happened with that and any other concerns that were mentioned and has there been any progress or updates to those issues? This would be good to know for riders like myself that road the M8 when it came out and really likes it but were a bit gun shy on pulling the trigger on one until they worked out these issues.

I bought a 2020 CVO Road Glide on March 28th. I've put 10,000 miles on it so far. It gets hotter than Hell but I'm sure the EPA tune contributes to that. I also added the A1 vented oil cap a few weeks into the purchase.

The last oil change it seemed to have consumed quite a bit, I don't know if that's normal for a newer motor. Moving forward I'm hoping it uses less between changes. No issues otherwise with how it runs.

[SP33DY]

I saw an invoice from a local dealer, they charged the customer 25 hours labor @$119/hr for a 114-117 stage 3 kit, with a Street Tuner.
The stage 3 kit labor included R&R cylinders/pistons, R&R cam, flash SE map, dyno pull, so pretty much the same thing they'd do for a 131 bolt on kit.

From the flat rate hour labor guide for a 2020 FLHT ElectraGlide Standard:

R&R CYLINDER AND PISTON BOTH CYLINDERS    8.4 HOURS

ECM CALIBRATION UPDATE    0.2 HOURS

Once the Top End is off I would say mabe 0.8 to 1.2 hours to change the cam, cam bearing, and lifters and allow for adjusting the pushrods after the top end is back on.

"Single" dyno pull would be the shops' minimum charge for dyno time. Ordinarily that would involve warm-up time and two or three back to back pulls for verification.

These time rates are based on having a technician remove and replace all of the required parts as quickly as possible. 

This should not be confused with a proper high performance engine build where the time is taken to measure and optimize all clearances and tolerances and  tune the engine on the dyno.

[PoorUB]

Now I did this with a 2010 Ultra with a Twin Cam, but I pulled both cylinders, left the pistons on, so that would add some time, certainly less than an hour. Did the tear down in a couple hours Monday evening. Next day ordered in parts, Next Day air. (I had a trip scheduled for Saturday!) Parts came in Wednesday. Started assembly at 6 PM  and had it on the road at 10:30 PM. Granted doesn't include time for cams, but like others have said, maybe  1-1/2 hours more. So I had about 6-1/2 hours into it. Took it for a run around the block and parked it. Thursday I went on a ride with some friends and put maybe 150 miles on it, got home and changed oil and filter. We left for South Carolina Saturday.

A dealer might warm it up on the dyno, another hour, toss in the required flash, 15 minutes. Easily less than ten hours unless you are blue printing, and measuring everything.

25 hours??

[rich1]

The one thing I'd like to know is what, if anything, has been done about the piston jets?  I've heard nothing about any explicit fix for the jets coming loose and hemorrhaging into the sump.

T-Man told me that every M8 jet he has checked were loose. But he also said he hadn't seen one leaking. Just loose. He has seen a lot of M8's in his shop so it sounds like it might not be as big of a deal as we think.

[Thermodyne]

The problem with the jets is that they use self tapping screws.  If you torque a self tapping screw to say 20lb/I it will be some what less than that after a few heat cycles relieve the stress in the aluminum casting. 

But I guess it would cost an additional quarter to tap those four holes.     

[Ohio HD]

The problem with the jets is that they use self tapping screws.  If you torque a self tapping screw to say 20lb/I it will be some what less than that after a few heat cycles relieve the stress in the aluminum casting. 

But I guess it would cost an additional quarter to tap those four holes.   

Having worked in manufacturing most of my life. New products "Usually" get a design review before going into production. How things like self tapping threaded fasteners for critical oil passages passes is beyond me. I guess everyone should be happy that HD doesn't drastically change their motors from the original v-twin concepts when they employed actual engineers.

Nothing would work...       

[Hossamania]

When a friend did a 107 to 124 build, his jets were loose on teardown.

[moose]

speaking of M8's does anyone know the amount of hours to change the M8 from a 114 to a 131 when the dealer does the swap ?

tia

Moose, you have a kit on way correct? Are you trying to keep warranty intact?
Call the service dept. see what they say. Have you?

speaking of having a dit on the way it's been OVER 70 days on order already

[les]

The one thing I'd like to know is what, if anything, has been done about the piston jets?  I've heard nothing about any explicit fix for the jets coming loose and hemorrhaging into the sump.

T-Man told me that every M8 jet he has checked were loose. But he also said he hadn't seen one leaking. Just loose. He has seen a lot of M8's in his shop so it sounds like it might not be as big of a deal as we think.

I, of course, respect Terry.  But how would "anyone" know if the jet was leaking or not?  What if we loosened up the outer primary bolts so that the outer primary would just giggle a little bit.  Would it leak primary fluid?  The jets are at least 15 psi of pressure.  Terry has a process where he actually skims the surface of the jets to make them flatter (another one of his T-Man magic procedures), then he uses the S&S gaskets.  If I recall, he even uses different bolts.  The jets are a problem.

[rich1]

Les. The "leaking" comments were mine as I could not recall the exact term TR used. But he indicated that although all of the screws he checked were loose, it didn't appear to be a problem. But while he is into an engine he addresses it. I wonder, and no one seems to know, if those screws contine to get looser over time. Or do they just loosen up a bit from a few heat cycles and then stay put? Unless my bike starts sumping I don't intend to tear it down just for that. But it is disappointing that we have to be concerned about it. Fairly shoddy setup

[Thermodyne]

I read engines produced 5 of 19 or after have the new 8 lobe oil pump which seems to have solved sumping.

My 6 of 19 built 114 has the new pump.