Camplate Failure

[Thermodyne]

I am assuming the cuffs and pushrods were not damaged ??

Cuffs are like new, and the pushrods just need a good flushing out. 

[98fxstc]

I have a couple of shout- outs on this.

A big one to Fuelmoto for taking hold of this and walking it up to S&S for me.  Great customer service.  Shipping the replacements before I return the old stuff is really outstanding.

And another shout-out to S&S for standing behind all of the parts.  They are replacing everything except the tappet cuffs, and pushrods.  And they are buying me a new oil pan to replace the one on the scooter. 

So I'm only out the time and some oil and a filter.

That is great customer service. There are going to be issues with parts in any industry, it's how the seller/mfg handles these issues that make the difference.

Hat's off to Fuel Moto and S&S for stepping up to the plate.

very fortunate
I haven't had any personal experience with Fuel Moto, I understand their customer support is very good
S&S customer support doesn't extend to Oz   

[No Cents]

Bummer!!
If there are shavings in there how are you going to get them out of the cases without splitting them?

    ^ ^ ^
this?

[pwmorris]

A lot of S&S stuff is made off shore now days....

Which parts are made off shore?
Verified with S&S, or some internet "source"?

[FSG]

S&S customer support doesn't extend to Oz   

my experience is only in Brisbane but there's certainly none here, Rollie will tell you to fork off just like everyone else

[Admiral Akbar]

The bronze bearing either does not have an external groove for oil, it was installed wrong or it spun.   On stock TC cam plates, the pinion bearing has straight splines knurled into the OD to keep it from turning, so did Delkron  SnS screwed up here anyway.  This ought to wind up Mr Morris.

[PoorUB]

If I were to put an S&S camplate back in I would pin that bushing.

[Admiral Akbar]

If I were to put an S&S camplate back in I would pin that bushing.

I would change the bushing first.

And the the alignment right.

[98fxstc]

S&S customer support doesn't extend to Oz   

my experience is only in Brisbane but there's certainly none here, Rollie will tell you to fork off just like everyone else

Pretty much my experience too Gary

Dealing direct with S&S in the US provides no joy either

[rbabos]

Well, and external groove on the bushing would eliminate all possible errors. Should have been part of the bushing design.
Ron

[kd]

That is pretty extreme off center wear for just a spun dry bushing problem.  Is the came plate alignment OK?  Why would the wear be so pronounced on the one half of the bushing if the crank is good and the plate is doweled in place?      

[Buglet]

   You have the down force of the cam from the valves and push rods plus the pull of the cam chain pulling it down towards the crank and no lube to the bushing.

[Buglet]

  Also I think Fuel Moto is the one that step up to the plate not so much S&S

[Mule]

[No Cents]

That is pretty extreme off center wear for just a spun dry bushing problem.  Is the came plate alignment OK?  Why would the wear be so pronounced on the one half of the bushing if the crank is good and the plate is doweled in place?   

    kd....I believe you nailed it.
No way that bushing should have worn like it did. Something has to have been mis-aligned for it to wear like it did. A bushing that spins is usually caused by it being too tight to the shaft it's around...in this case to the cam. You can see that the OP's bushing lost the center groove on one end of it. I think this shows there is more going on here than just a bushing being too tight and spinning.
   To the OP...if that engine was mine...it would have to be totally dis-assembled and cleaned. Metal has gone through out that whole engine. Cases would be split and crank bearings replaced. Piston oilers would go in the garbage and the rebuild would begin...checking all clearances and run outs as it was being re-assembled. It looks like the front lobe on the cam had some metal go between it and the lifter. There has to be a bunch of metal that went thru that engine with what all is missing from the bushing in the cam plate. I'd also trash the oil pump and cam plate.

[rbabos]

I too have wondered in 2k miles how much wear there is. It's huge.  Even trace oil, dribbling in, which there is plenty of should have kept the wear down to some extent. It really can't operate bone dry in that setting.  Bronze must be really soft, I suspect and intolerant of reduced oil running.
Ron

[Thermodyne]

That is pretty extreme off center wear for just a spun dry bushing problem.  Is the came plate alignment OK?  Why would the wear be so pronounced on the one half of the bushing if the crank is good and the plate is doweled in place?   

The bushing spun and starved it for oil.   Then the cam wore into the high load area of the bushing, but slightly past the center of static load because of the way the cam loads against the tappets.  No issue there.  The unworn area of the bushing has no load to speak of.  And once the clearance opened up, there was probably some oil getting to the bushing, the waste from the outer tappet was probably getting splashed all over it.  That's the only way it could have survived the roll home.   

[Thermodyne]

If I were to put an S&S camplate back in I would pin that bushing.

I haven't decided how I'm going to do it yet.  I can pin it from the side or key it from the face. 

[Thermodyne]

I too have wondered in 2k miles how much wear there is. It's huge.  Even trace oil, dribbling in, which there is plenty of should have kept the wear down to some extent. It really can't operate bone dry in that setting.  Bronze must be really soft, I suspect and intolerant of reduced oil running.
Ron

Think about how high the loading is on the bushing.  Once it wore and opened up the clearance, it wasn't going to live on splashed oil.  It's designed to maintain a film of oil because the pressurized oil is pumped in faster than it can leak out.  But when you open that clearance up to as little a .004, it looses the ability to maintain the oil film.   Its really no different than a rod or main bearing in a auto engine.  It works in a very narrow clearance range.    To be sure, the oil that splashed in helped, but it only delayed the inevitable.

[pwmorris]

Check crank run out.

It was .0025 when the cam went in.

Check it again.

Yes, this^^^^^

That is pretty extreme off center wear for just a spun dry bushing problem.  Is the came plate alignment OK?  Why would the wear be so pronounced on the one half of the bushing if the crank is good and the plate is doweled in place?   

The bushing spun and starved it for oil.   Then the cam wore into the high load area of the bushing, but slightly past the center of static load because of the way the cam loads against the tappets.  No issue there.  The unworn area of the bushing has no load to speak of.  And once the clearance opened up, there was probably some oil getting to the bushing, the waste from the outer tappet was probably getting splashed all over it.  That's the only way it could have survived the roll home.   

So,
You are going to use again a part you say is a failed part? Why would you do that?
You are then going to modify said part, despite thousands of these parts having zero issues, as is from factory?
I have run, and know of several of these personally with zero issues.

What did S&S say?

That is pretty extreme off center wear for just a spun dry bushing problem.  Is the came plate alignment OK?  Why would the wear be so pronounced on the one half of the bushing if the crank is good and the plate is doweled in place?      

This^^^^^^^

[98fxstc]

So,
You are going to use again a part you say is a failed part? Why would you do that?
You are then going to modify said part, despite thousands of these parts having zero issues, as is from factory?
I have run, and know of several of these personally with zero issues.

I had a S&S push rod that failed on adjustment
silly enough to think S&S might replace it
No
I had to buy another set of 4 and now I have three spares   

I used S&S again because I know they are a reasonable product and I was just unlucky

[attach=0]

[98fxstc]

So,
You are going to use again a part you say is a failed part? Why would you do that?
You are then going to modify said part, despite thousands of these parts having zero issues, as is from factory?
I have run, and know of several of these personally with zero issues.

common sense to improve a part if you can
particularly after experiencing a failure

[pwmorris]

So,
You are going to use again a part you say is a failed part? Why would you do that?
You are then going to modify said part, despite thousands of these parts having zero issues, as is from factory?
I have run, and know of several of these personally with zero issues.

common sense to improve a part if you can
particularly after experiencing a failure

No-
Really?
If a Jesel rocker or spring fatigues, cracks or fails in any way in a NASCAR motor....Watch a tear down after each race in a drag motor...even if NO damage is detected.  Trash pile. Bye Bye....
Do you think a crew chief directs his guys to drill holes on it or dip in in steel to lighten or strengthen it? Hell no. Trash dump it goes...if a spring breaks do you weld it? If a cam shows wear, do you add material to it? If a cylinder shows wear, do you bore it and Reem it without adding the proper piston overbore to match?
I have blown apart, destroyed, broke, damaged and damn right ruined all kinds of parts. Sad and sometimes fun....
You think I blame the part? Hell no.
Each and EVERY case was a cause/effect situation, where I stressed, heated, mis-adjusted, ran wrong spec, mismatched parts, failed to protect them (lack of oil, no rev limiter, etc).....or just plain ABUSED them.
The only, only time, I have ever had a question on any part causing failure of the whole, was when STD in Chatsworth was about to close and they "rushed" to complete a FRONT head for me...(some guys weren't even that lucky, and their parts got locked behind as the business failed). ;(
Got it out of there just after they closed...
Put motor back together, put it on a dyno, and bam 💥 motor blew. They claimed a stretched rod caused the contact, O.K....but funny.....it was the front head that blew first (thru a little EZ detective work), sending Exploded aluminum from the FRONT head, thru the entire motor.
Complete destruction.

Pushrods? How ya gonna improve it?
Seriously?
I've Used titanium that bent like a wet noodle...."blame the pushrod!" Hell no.
My stupid ass trying them to lighten the valvetrain at big time pressures. I own it. By far, it's the wrong set up applying the wrong load on these parts. That includes cam plates, lifters (I can show you all kinds of examples of lifters trying to do their job, but being hammered by the wrong set up, pressures, and parts.
I've exploded an S&S standard non limiter lifter, spraying oil all over a drum.....
"lifer fault?" Bull"Potty mouth". I ran a huge HP, hi lift motor at big time rpm for an extended time on these poor suckers.
"These lifters are no good!"
My ass.....that's on me and how we set up the motor. Should have run solids (which were the only solution at the time).
Sure, I've Tweaked and jerryrigged lots of parts for emergencies.
You are a hell of a lot better man than me....and S&S.....and their engineers.

"I used S&S again because I know they are a reasonable product and I was just unlucky"
You used S&S because they are the performance leader for over 50 years, and no company is better (although for your specific part you could have run a Smith Bros.) Also, of course Jesel is numero uno here, but a race application. Either way S&S is still King of the street VTwin world .

[FSG]

Ahhhh   to funny and to be expected    

I'd pin that bushing as well   

[To The Max]

I had a faulty SE push rod the same as yours, took it back to the dealer no problem new packet. I don't deal with companys that don't back there products. and I would pin that bush as well . Max