Author Topic: Camplate Failure  (Read 11454 times)

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Offline klammer76

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2019, 10:45:37 AM »
All back together and running well.

I did not split the cases.  But I also did not find any brass past the filter.  Return port was clear, as were the feed passages in the plate.  Tappet were free of brass as were the pushrods.  The sump swabbed clear as did the crank pinion port, and the piston oiler passages.  (for what that's worth)  And I realize that there could be an issue that turns up later, from contamination in the wheel set, but the only solution to that is to send the wheels out for disassembly (rebuild).  So I rolled the dice and reassembled it.  If it was a customers scooter, then time being money, it would have gotten a short block or a replacement engine.  I'd have to get the calculator out to decide which. 

Fuel Moto was great about taking care of everything, but really wanted the parts back asap.

When I spoke with S&S they were kind of neutral about the whole thing.  More concerned about when and where I bought the parts than anything else.  No suggestions as to check on anything at all. 

And as I talked with some of the people I consider to be my mentors, the one thing that seemed to be universal (past everything since the evo being crap) was that I should not modify the cam plate. Reason being that that would let S&S off the hook if it has a repeat failure.

As it stands now, this is a less than $100 repair for me.  Oil - filter - a few orings off the shelf - some solvent and 3 bond.  If it goes bad, I'll deal with it then. 

Here's a few more photos from the process.

Run out check





Twin cam sprocket lock works fine



Plate style inner cam bearing tool from the twin cam will not work, you need one for an M8.
Or you can use the single bearing puller and driver set from a twin cam.



And just because, I primed it until I saw oil drain from the cam bushing.  So it has oil at this point.  If it spins again, its not from lack of oil. 

 

And some oil filter gore.



As I said.....
Post #68-
ďDespite all the hero modification advice posted, I will bet you do nothing-and assemble as is.Ē

Yup.

S&S.......that bad bitch.......you canít stand to be with-and you canít stand to be without- because at the end of the day, she is damn good. No matter how many times you and your friends sit around the campfire with a couple brews and bash the witch....you ainít got nothiní Better.....and you are right back where you were before. And thatís O.K.

Glad S&S took care of you.
Enjoy the ride, and best of luck going forward on the build.
 :up:

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2019, 04:08:58 PM »
Its all prolly for naught at this point.

Little ole lady killed it Saturday evening.  Pulled right out in front of me.




To stove up to get a good look at it, so I just held my phone down low and took a few shots for "Potty mouth"s and giggles. 
This one seems to show a damaged frame gusset at the right lower neck area.

If its torn, its a write off.


Offline FSG

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2019, 04:47:54 PM »
and wouldn't that tear your nightie   :angry:

Offline VDeuce

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #103 on: October 14, 2019, 05:30:53 PM »
Oh man, sorry this happened to you.

Reminds me of waxing my '70 Chevelle, got it looking great only for a 4-vehicle accident to take it out right after I finished.

Offline borno

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2019, 05:49:43 PM »
That really sucks man :down:

Offline klammer76

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #105 on: October 14, 2019, 06:42:26 PM »
Sorry to hear this but thankful you are ok.

Offline pwmorris

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #106 on: October 14, 2019, 08:18:52 PM »
Did Fuel Moto save the day?

Jamie did actually. Scroll through the thread. S&S spent more time confirming when, where and from who the OP purchased the parts from and was not too eager to offer any technical advice or replacement parts. That is where Jamie at Fuel Moto kicked in.

This mirrors my recent experiences with S&S. I will remind you of my TC case that S&S admitted to having improperly machined, didn't offer anything and were really more concerned with the when, where and from who that I purchased the case from. Once that was established they were very quick to point out it was not under warranty and dam near hung up on me.

S&S is not the company it used to be. IMO, S&S went bad when Bret Smith was in charge. You and others that know people at S&S might get treated well, but when the average person calls them the results are very different. Even on this page, they signed up to be a sponsor, said they were here to help, etc. Look at their posts. Minimal to nonexistent. Their few posts on this page have failed to answer any technical questions in an open forum, but have redirected people to their website. Total failure.

But you are right, there are things I need them for and just have to suck it. But I tell you what, I do everything I can to source parts from manufacturers other than S&S. Other than their 4-⅛" bore cases and heads, there is not much I need from them.
Fuel Moto has had an excellent reputation for as long as Iíve known of them, and they walk the talk.....which is more than many Companies can say about their products and service.
I get it, S&S ainít what it was. It sucks when people arenít treated with the respect they deserve.
Customer Service, it appears, is the numero uno problem apparently, and something ownership must address going forward. This part of their business model is unacceptable.
As to product quality, other than a few (2%) of their parts made overseas (sucks big time IMO),  I have not seen mine or anyone elseís street performance stuff drop off quality wise, at all. I beat the crap out of my street motor with almost all S&S parts, and it just looks at me after a long, rough day like....Ēthat all ya got?Ē-and itís ready time after time to put smiles on my face.
This is the part of the deal you mention as a positive.....and why people put up with the other stuff-their parts are still badass. Are their exceptions? Sure as with every company on Earth.
As you know, the big hardcore HP V Twin stuff including drag racing and land speed....they still own this World as well. Period. Why do people that abuse, hammer, and push to the limit their parts, and can use ANY V-Twin Companyís parts on Earth, continually rely on S&S? For decades?
For those who may not know, many ďaftermarket builders, customizers, and performance companiesĒ use S&S parts. Some exclusively, and some with many S&S parts like Fuel Moto.

Here are the parts the Fuel Moto 126Ē, for example uses in their motors for their ultimate expression in power, and a name they rely on to deliver the goods.

The following items are included with the Fuel Moto 126" Outlaw:
Genuine Harley Davidson SE engine cases with Timken conversion
S&S 3 piece crankshaft, 4140 steel; heavy duty connecting rods
Fuel Moto IC extreme duty cylinders, precision bored; Forged pistons
Fuel Moto Outlaw CNC ported S&S Super Stock heads (port profile by Rick Ward)
Multi radius competition valve job; 660 lift valve springs
Heads machined for HD automatic compression releases
S&S TC3 forged cam plate, S&S three stage oil pump
Wood Performance camshafts
Wood Performance alpha Directional Lifters
Fuel Moto adjustable pushrods
S&S forged roller rockers
S&S rocker housings & rocker stands
S&S lifter blocks
S&S gear drive (optional)

Offline pwmorris

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #107 on: October 14, 2019, 08:38:48 PM »
OP-
Glad you are OK. Bikes and parts can be replaced, human life and body parts, not yet.
Iíve put tons of effort and sweat into motor builds, only to have them destroyed, so feel your pain. As a write off, hopefully the motor is ok, and bike can be a buy back.

Offline Helmwurst

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #108 on: October 15, 2019, 05:30:58 AM »
Glad to hear you are ok... Got to watch the cagers, I never take my eye off of them at an intersection. So far I have avoided my share of near misses, probably is only a matter of time.. Buy it back, make a fat tire bagger or a big wheel out of it !!

Offline IronButt70

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2019, 05:45:44 AM »
Its all prolly for naught at this point.

Little ole lady killed it Saturday evening.  Pulled right out in front of me.




To stove up to get a good look at it, so I just held my phone down low and took a few shots for "Potty mouth"s and giggles. 
This one seems to show a damaged frame gusset at the right lower neck area.

If its torn, its a write off.


Well that truly sucks. Good to see you werenít seriously injured.
The people in your life are like elevators They can take you up or take you down

Offline lucasg

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #110 on: October 16, 2019, 06:04:59 AM »
Thermodyne:  very sorry to hear about your accident.,  absolutely sucks.  Glad your ok.  Hope everything works out and your on the mend and back on your way to building something even better and stronger.  :scoot:

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #111 on: October 22, 2019, 09:20:10 AM »
Well, my insurance company made me well on the scooter.  What I paid, plus the upgrades.  Buying leftovers does have it benefits.

Now I just need to heal up some more and go find another scooter.  Not much around here as far as leftovers. 

Offline 98fxstc

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #112 on: October 22, 2019, 04:22:24 PM »
Well, my insurance company made me well on the scooter.  What I paid, plus the upgrades.  Buying leftovers does have it benefits.

Now I just need to heal up some more and go find another scooter.  Not much around here as far as leftovers.

Good news   :up:

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #113 on: October 31, 2019, 05:53:43 PM »
Found another scooter.  A leftover 2019 down in Portsmouth.  Still can't ride it yet, but such is life.


Offline PoorUB

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #114 on: October 31, 2019, 06:26:52 PM »
Well, if you can't ride it, may as well tear into it, cams, port the heads..........
 :hyst:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline klammer76

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #115 on: October 31, 2019, 08:57:07 PM »
Found another scooter.  A leftover 2019 down in Portsmouth.  Still can't ride it yet, but such is life.



Great news, congrats!

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2019, 06:38:10 AM »
Well, if you can't ride it, may as well tear into it, cams, port the heads..........
 :hyst:

I try to at least wait until after the first service.

But with that said, I am waiting on the Brown truck.  No cams, but all the fit and comfort stuff that was on the last one, filler lamps, and a set of 45's

The killed one is up on Coparts auction site.  They valued it at almost $30K.  Opens at $125   Might have to watch it and see if I want to buy it back.

https://www.copart.com/lot/52848629

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2019, 06:51:55 AM »
Funny, I think they would have to admit the frame damage. I guess you can see it in the one picture, but at a glace it does not look that bad. I can see someone buying it thinking it is fairing a fork damage.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2020, 11:08:11 AM »
I waited until the 1000 mile service, but did pretty much the same upgrade to this one as the old one got. 

Since it already had the new (4th gen?) oil pump in it, I skipped the pump and plate upgrade.  But same cans, pipe, breather and tuner

The 465 cam really makes good low end torque in this 114.  Pretty easy to lift the front wheel on a 1-2 shift.

But after only 1500 miles the comp is already raising a racket.  Sounded like valve chatter from the seat, but when I went listening with a hose, the noise is coming from the front of the primary.     

Offline OldMike

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #119 on: June 30, 2020, 05:50:31 PM »
I waited until the 1000 mile service, but did pretty much the same upgrade to this one as the old one got. 

Since it already had the new (4th gen?) oil pump in it, I skipped the pump and plate upgrade.  But same cans, pipe, breather and tuner

The 465 cam really makes good low end torque in this 114. Pretty easy to lift the front wheel on a 1-2 shift.

But after only 1500 miles the comp is already raising a racket.  Sounded like valve chatter from the seat, but when I went listening with a hose, the noise is coming from the front of the primary.     
I thought the latest 8 lobe oil pump didn't become available till the 2020 model year.
I think your going to need more compensator LOL. :doh:

Offline Thermodyne

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #120 on: June 30, 2020, 06:11:40 PM »
I waited until the 1000 mile service, but did pretty much the same upgrade to this one as the old one got. 

Since it already had the new (4th gen?) oil pump in it, I skipped the pump and plate upgrade.  But same cans, pipe, breather and tuner

The 465 cam really makes good low end torque in this 114. Pretty easy to lift the front wheel on a 1-2 shift.

But after only 1500 miles the comp is already raising a racket.  Sounded like valve chatter from the seat, but when I went listening with a hose, the noise is coming from the front of the primary.   


I thought the latest 8 lobe oil pump didn't become available till the 2020 model year.
I think your going to need more compensator LOL. :doh:

As I understand it, they started going in engines in 5/19 with all pumps being high scavenge by the 2nd week of 6/19. 

Offline OldMike

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Re: Camplate Failure
« Reply #121 on: June 30, 2020, 06:24:41 PM »
I waited until the 1000 mile service, but did pretty much the same upgrade to this one as the old one got. 

Since it already had the new (4th gen?) oil pump in it, I skipped the pump and plate upgrade.  But same cans, pipe, breather and tuner

The 465 cam really makes good low end torque in this 114. Pretty easy to lift the front wheel on a 1-2 shift.

But after only 1500 miles the comp is already raising a racket.  Sounded like valve chatter from the seat, but when I went listening with a hose, the noise is coming from the front of the primary.   


I thought the latest 8 lobe oil pump didn't become available till the 2020 model year.
I think your going to need more compensator LOL. :doh:

As I understand it, they started going in engines in 5/19 with all pumps being high scavenge by the 2nd week of 6/19.
Thanks  :up: