Author Topic: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body  (Read 1757 times)

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Offline BigT

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2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« on: October 17, 2019, 09:29:21 AM »
 Still had an issue with sumping and decided to change the cam while I was in there installing the latest HD pump.

2017 FLHX Street Glide
124Ē Kit Ė 4.250" x 4.375"
10.9:1 Compression,
4.250" Cylinders with CP Flat Top Pistons
Stage I Heads (high lift springs)
Red Shift 552 Cam
SE 64mm Throttle Body w/5.5 Injectors
K&N custom air cleaner w/polished throttle body
TTS Tuner
XXX header w/Street Outlaw Mufflers
SDR Clutch in Evo Industry Basket
Darkhorse blueprinted crank w/Carrillo rods

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« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 09:34:41 AM by Coyote »

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 10:03:42 AM »
Here is a sheet showing the difference between the 408 and 552 cams. The 408 was done in 6th gear and the 552 in 5th

Offline TXCHOP

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 10:53:00 AM »
Awesome!.

Still running a belt?

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 12:08:28 PM »
Yes still running a belt. I had done a chain conversion on one of my Twin Cam builds and itís definitely more work to maintain. I just cut back on the hole shots!

Offline HD Street Performance

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 12:47:23 PM »
Tom
Besides fast how are the manners of this build and impressions of the woods vs RS cam, the swap

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 02:04:28 PM »
You can definitely feel the additional low end torque and the RS 552 sounds more radical at idle due to the dual pattern/long exhaust duration. I just got it back from being tuned yesterday and plan on putting some hard miles on it over the weekend to see if the new oil pump solved the issue with sumping. Vented oil spout, cometic gaskets on the piston oiler, 5% leak down but loads up with oil in the sump with long sustained high RPM runs. The HD pump with the seal cured the problem when it was a 117Ē but issue returned with the new build.

Offline lucasg

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 06:39:28 PM »
Very nice BigT.   Thatís some serious power brother.  What are the Redshift cams like ?  Are they fairly quiet running?  Was considering the 587ís for my 2012 CVO Street Glide which is basically stock except for a Fullsac DX & 2Ē cores.  Great job on the build!  :up:

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 07:05:26 PM »
Yes the cams are quiet as were the previous 408 cams I pulled out. Took awhile for the Woods lifters to pump back up with oil after I reassembled everything. I thought I screwed up a lifter adjustment!

Offline Mopower

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 07:36:03 AM »
I communicated with zippers a while back regarding the 552 cam and they strongly recommended not running that cam unless the spring pressure was set to their specs which I don't remember. Did you set the spring pressure to their recommendation or just install hi lift springs and go with it?
Also I would like to know the low speed manners, is the bike smooth @ low rpm's (no bucking, surging or bad manners) ? TIA

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2019, 10:19:51 AM »
I did not check the spring pressure when I pulled the 408 cam and installed the 552.  I had sent the heads to Fuel Moto for their level A head work which I think is done by Wards Performance. Woods performance springs were used which are advertised as being good for all M8 cams to up to 600 lift which I confirmed with a call to Fuel Moto. There are no issues with low speed manors. I donít see myself making any future changes to this build.

Offline Mopower

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2019, 11:07:00 AM »
Thanks for the info. I'm seriously considering that cam, especially after seeing your results. I'm putting together a 124 build now and still on the fence about cam choice. I believe that cam has 37į of overlap and that gave me some concern as to it's low speed manners (I'm no expert on cam specs by the way), you have a stout build and congratulations on it. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

Offline JDS Cycle Works

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2019, 04:45:44 AM »
Looks great!, I am interested to see if the new Harley oil pump solves the sumping problem. I would be nice to have a more economical solution to the sumping problem with large builds.

Offline 1workinman

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2019, 05:49:53 AM »
Looks great!, I am interested to see if the new Harley oil pump solves the sumping problem. I would be nice to have a more economical solution to the sumping problem with large builds.
When the M8 first came out I was sure it had some growing pains and the problems and solutions would come probably from Aftermarket . When the performance started to be on par or I thought so from a twin cam it was more interesting . But until the sumping is a thing of the past this is a just a interesting read               

Offline Mopower

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2019, 02:59:27 PM »
I spoke to a tuner today as I'm just about to pull the trigger on that cam. He recommended 6.2 injectors minimum and recommended 7.1 injectors. I have the 5.5's like you. Did your tuner mention anything about injector size?

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2019, 03:51:50 PM »
He made no mention of the 5.5 injectors being too small.

Offline yobtaf103

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 01:11:14 AM »
I spoke to a tuner today as I'm just about to pull the trigger on that cam. He recommended 6.2 injectors minimum and recommended 7.1 injectors. I have the 5.5's like you. Did your tuner mention anything about injector size?

A bit curious why Zippers run 7.1 inj on there 117 builds with 548/552/472

Offline 1workinman

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2019, 04:31:31 PM »
I spoke to a tuner today as I'm just about to pull the trigger on that cam. He recommended 6.2 injectors minimum and recommended 7.1 injectors. I have the 5.5's like you. Did your tuner mention anything about injector size?
  I not a tuner and I don't know at what pressure the injectors are run at but I thought that until your at the end of the duty cycle or close I not sure what the point is . I thought that the smaller injector might have a better spray pattern but that may not be correct .  I pretty sure bigger injectors don't mean more hp

Offline Mopower

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2019, 05:36:58 PM »
I've always read that fuel injector duty cycle shouldn't exceed 80%. Using online fuel injector calculators and using both 55 and 60 psi of fuel pressure the 7.1 injector is what's required at 150 rwhp to stay below the 80% duty cycle. It seems that a lot of shops don't hold to the 80% rule. Right or wrong I have no idea, I'm not a tuner. Just another gear head planning my build. I've also read the smaller injector will be better at lower rpm as you suggested,  again I don't know but it seems logical to me. I'm going with the 7.1 on my build for a couple of reasons. Maybe a real tuner will join the discussion and educate us more. I'm always willing to learn more.

Offline yobtaf103

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2019, 06:23:10 PM »
I've always read that fuel injector duty cycle shouldn't exceed 80%. Using online fuel injector calculators and using both 55 and 60 psi of fuel pressure the 7.1 injector is what's required at 150 rwhp to stay below the 80% duty cycle. It seems that a lot of shops don't hold to the 80% rule. Right or wrong I have no idea, I'm not a tuner. Just another gear head planning my build. I've also read the smaller injector will be better at lower rpm as you suggested,  again I don't know but it seems logical to me. I'm going with the 7.1 on my build for a couple of reasons. Maybe a real tuner will join the discussion and educate us more. I'm always willing to learn more.
Used online inj calculator  80% recommended 155hp 5.5 be over 90%

Offline Ohio HD

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2019, 06:42:30 PM »
I'm far from the expert, but I do know that how much fuel is required to make the HP matters, and varies by the build and it's ability to hit the HP number.

Tuning a 107" Twin Cam with stock injectors I easily hit 100% on wide open throttle in the upper RPM's. However, set the rev limiter on this one to 6,000 and shift at 5,800 rpm (where the cams / heads were topped out) and it ran fine. When you top out an injector it's like the rev limiter is activated, the motor just breaks up and looses RPM fast. This motor made just over 100 HP, which is about what the stock 4.35 injectors will handle. By the way, I could hit the injector limit on the dyno in 5th gear, but not on the street unless in 1st or 2nd gear.

I'd stick to the 80% rule if possible, or follow a similar build and the injector size used.


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Offline Mopower

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2019, 07:14:53 PM »
Thanks for the reply. I purchased the 7.1 injectors at the same time as the cam. I would have liked to stay with the 5.5's but want to put the build together once and be done. I'm a tmax user and that is the injector size the tune is built with. The tmax software does have a injector size compensator I could have used but decided not to.

To the op, sorry to take your thread of track, you have an awesome build. I hope mine turns out similar.

Offline sfmichael

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2020, 10:35:59 AM »
This is a great looking build T  :up: - have you put some miles on it yet?
Colorado Springs, CO.

Offline BigT

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2020, 07:03:58 PM »
This is a great looking build T  :up: - have you put some miles on it yet?
I was able to put a few thousand miles on it since the cam and oil pump change and before the weather turned nasty here up north. I wasnít able to make it sump with the latest oil pump. The motor has more than enough power for low RPM 2up touring and pulls hard to the rev limiter. I donít see myself making any changes to build.

Offline sfmichael

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Re: 2017, 124", FLHX, Red Shift 552, 64 throttle body
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 11:06:12 PM »
This is a great looking build T  :up: - have you put some miles on it yet?
I was able to put a few thousand miles on it since the cam and oil pump change and before the weather turned nasty here up north. I wasnít able to make it sump with the latest oil pump. The motor has more than enough power for low RPM 2up touring and pulls hard to the rev limiter. I donít see myself making any changes to build.

I've been out of touch lately, what cam was in it previously... and what prompted the change and how did you choose the 552?
Colorado Springs, CO.