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How common is tranny main bearing seal leaking?

Started by les, September 24, 2019, 09:45:14 AM

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les

Quote from: klammer76 on September 27, 2019, 05:54:56 PM
My stock 2002 5 speed went 48,000 miles and never a problem except a slight weep at the shift shaft seal (Mobil 1 75w-90 entire time). When I installed my complete SE OD6 I found the IPB race had walked and was just touching the main drive gear seal. Wasn't leaking yet.

Last Saturday, did a 400 mile day, all good as usual. Go out Sunday and good size puddle under the primary! 14,000 miles on the new SE OD6 :angry: It's tranny fluid, coming off the outside edge of the front pulley whether on side stand or up straight. Oh well, in I go next week. The SE has been great, just wonder what is leaking and what was the cause. I did install a S&S tapered race before I installed it. It's always something.

One note, last two times I went out, after riding and pushing around the garage the belt was making a rubbing sound from the area of the front pulley :scratch: Belt tight as usual after riding. Checked the tension and it was spot on. Interesting to see what I find.

By the size of the puddle, that looks like one of two things.  Either the race walked in far enough to damage the 5th gear seal, or the pulley nut is loose and it's leaking around the quad seal.  Either way, it's all in the same area.  Yes, it's possible that there is a leak between the large seal and the pulley spacer, but the other two are more common.

klammer76

Quote from: les on December 18, 2019, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: klammer76 on September 27, 2019, 05:54:56 PM
My stock 2002 5 speed went 48,000 miles and never a problem except a slight weep at the shift shaft seal (Mobil 1 75w-90 entire time). When I installed my complete SE OD6 I found the IPB race had walked and was just touching the main drive gear seal. Wasn't leaking yet.

Last Saturday, did a 400 mile day, all good as usual. Go out Sunday and good size puddle under the primary! 14,000 miles on the new SE OD6 :angry: It's tranny fluid, coming off the outside edge of the front pulley whether on side stand or up straight. Oh well, in I go next week. The SE has been great, just wonder what is leaking and what was the cause. I did install a S&S tapered race before I installed it. It's always something.

One note, last two times I went out, after riding and pushing around the garage the belt was making a rubbing sound from the area of the front pulley :scratch: Belt tight as usual after riding. Checked the tension and it was spot on. Interesting to see what I find.

By the size of the puddle, that looks like one of two things.  Either the race walked in far enough to damage the 5th gear seal, or the pulley nut is loose and it's leaking around the quad seal.  Either way, it's all in the same area.  Yes, it's possible that there is a leak between the large seal and the pulley spacer, but the other two are more common.

Hey les. Wound up being the pulley nut was loose. S&S race so no walking. Replaced with all new seals, new spacer & 3 guyz nut, red loctite on threads and smear behind the nut. We shall see. Not 100% sure of the cause fornut losing clamping force. Socket head bolt was intact on the super nut.

les

It's nothing wrong you've done, IMO.  That damn pulley spacer seems to sometimes collapse, and the result is the stack gets loose.  Sounds like you've done a good repair and I'm betting no problems from here.

TN

Another baker main seal leaking, installed dd7 last year with around 15k miles on it. Installed the timken bearings set on the low end of specs, used the white spacer to set endplay. I did ignore it for some time but it was time to address it, what a mess, did not pull the gears as everything seemed fine except for the leak. I tightened the sprocket nut per service manual vs baker instructions this time and final crank to 45 degrees. I'm just a parts changer but getting plenty of on the job experience lately.  :kick:

All buttoned up and ready to ride.
Just Ride..........

les

So, the DD7 comes with the Grudge Box bearing as part of the kit, or did you add that?   When you replaced the seal just recently, did you also use a new Baker pulley spacer?  Just to be clear, are you saying that the Grudge Box bearing had 15K miles on it when it started leaking?

jmorton10

July 27, 2020, 08:24:38 AM #30 Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 08:37:57 AM by jmorton10
Before switching to a grudge box I had a dd7. At that time, the dd7 did not come with the gb bearing although I believe they do now.

~John
HC 124", Dragula, Pingel air shift W/Dyna Shift Minder & onboard compressor, NOS

TN

Quote from: les on July 27, 2020, 07:46:47 AM
So, the DD7 comes with the Grudge Box bearing as part of the kit, or did you add that?   When you replaced the seal just recently, did you also use a new Baker pulley spacer?  Just to be clear, are you saying that the Grudge Box bearing had 15K miles on it when it started leaking?

The DD7 did come with the timken bearing main drive gear by request and a few dollars, I didn't replace the spacer but did put a new oring on the end that came extra with the kit, the spacer looked fine no grooves but I could tell where the seal was riding. On hindsight I do wish I got a new spacer but too late now. And yes to failing at 15k miles. My factory seal made it 58k+ miles as I saw about the TT-391.

Anyhow I just wanted to put mine on the list, I inspected the bore and old seal but saw nothing out of sorts. I hope the issue is solved, I hate messing with that sprocket nut. I've got 75miles or so on it since the repair. We'll see.
Just Ride..........

les

Thanks for that reply.  It seems that when we see this failure, it happens in the range of 15K-20K miles.  Not a happy situation and concerns me.  I have an extra new set of seal, spacer, and o-ring hanging on the wall of my garage, just waiting for it to leak again, but that won't be for another 10K miles at least because my last fix was about 4K miles ago.

I've also seen where one lip of the seal rides to close, and perhaps over, the edge of the spacer.  Mine did not do that, as the two wear marks were fairly centered towards the middle of the spacer when I took it apart because of the last failure/repair.  I've resigned myself that this WILL happen again.  Just a matter of time.

les

A picture of the wear marks on the one that leaked in 20K miles.  So, this one was not due to one lip being too close to an edge.  Maybe Baker should stop anodizing their spacers?

autoworker

Good old Baker.Lots of great ideas with proven results.
It must be true,I read it on the internet.

les

Generally, I've been happy with the Baker products.  I've used:

DD6
Their throw out bearing (I've seen OEM's totally destroyed and pieces on tranny drain plug)
Shift drum
Tranny shift lever
Grudge Box bearing for OEM six speed
Grudge Box gear set

I had the trap door retaining rings cave out on their early DD6, however Baker replaced with a brand new DD6 with the improved retaining rings.  That tranny held tight with my 114".  This Grudge Box pulley spacer is a concern though.

TN

My first attempt to fix failed. I went back in and replaced spacer, new pulley, used a Jims meganut, tried to contact 3guyz about their nut but I got no answer and the Jims was available quickly, clutch basket as the stock had some broken splines. So far so good. Also went with the S&S race and stock bearing as my baker high torque bearing left a mark on the mainshaft, wasn't there on first attempt.

When tearing down I did notice the stock lock plate had signs on movement at the bolt slots. I still hate dealing with that big nut and removing the Jims will not work on my method on removing the stock one. Hopefully that won't be for a long time.

Got over 3k miles on it since latest fix.
Just Ride..........

Hossamania

One of the tips for removal was to face the socket so that the surface is flat, taking away the slight roundness at the "teeth".
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Norton Commando

Quote from: Hossamania on September 22, 2020, 05:54:08 AM
One of the tips for removal was to face the socket so that the surface is flat, taking away the slight roundness at the "teeth".

I agree; great tip.
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

TN

Follow up

The install of my DD7 was 2 1/2 years ago and if you look at the main drive bore at 3 and 9 o'clock you'll see three small marks where I pulled the main seal, my scoreboard. I really thought I had it solved the last time but here I am again, about 15k miles later. Spent $90 at harbor freight on a corded impact wrench, best $90 I've ever spent on a tool, that nut doesn't bother me now.


Just Ride..........

TN

October 03, 2021, 02:10:43 PM #40 Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 02:36:33 PM by TN
Took her all the way down, I originally used the white spacer (.102) to set end play, my notes says it was .0015. when I checked it after tear down I was getting .0035-.004. using the same equipment  :nix:


Just Ride..........

TN

October 03, 2021, 02:13:38 PM #41 Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 02:22:20 PM by TN
Got some more parts from Baker, I used the yellow spacer (.100) to set end play, Looks to be right at .001. The spec is .0005-.002.
Just Ride..........

TN

October 03, 2021, 02:20:29 PM #42 Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 02:35:02 PM by TN
Got to here today and was a good stopping point. I'm just following up with my experience and I have learned a thing or two here but I'm still just a parts changer. Any suggestions are welcome. Will prolly do an inspect of my cam chest while she is on the table, got 25k mi on the build.


Forgot to add that before I took the gear set out I put the clutch hub nut on the end of the shaft and checked runout, damn near perfect.
Just Ride..........

les

Looks like a perfect repair.  I'll also repeat my reply #32.

I have an extra new set of seal, spacer, and o-ring hanging on the wall of my garage, just waiting for it to leak again, but that won't be for another 10K miles at least because my last fix was about 4K miles ago.

TN

First time I set end play I used 75-140 gear oil on the bearings and race, this time I used a light gun oil. The new specs are .0005-.002 which isn't much different  but gotta be a reason for it.

Here is one of my specialty tools.  :teeth:

Just Ride..........

FSG

Quotethis time I used a light gun oil

there was a similar process I was involved with years ago where the oil to be used was spec to be 'clavus' .......  felt like slippery water