Author Topic: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO  (Read 833 times)

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Offline JW113

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Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« on: September 30, 2019, 02:19:32 PM »
So I started a little project that sort of mushroomed into a bigger project. I had put a 61T rear pulley on my '92 Softail, but since I spend so much time is slow traffic, I was not really taking advantage of the tall gearing and was also getting tired of having to feather the clutch to launch it from dead stops. I have a 65T rear pulley that I could put on, for the 3.15:1 gearing. But I elected to put a later EVO/TC 25/36 primary set up on it. One, to get the "updated" clutch that is used, and two, I have a '99 outer primary cover that the chrome is in really great shape, whereas my stock '92 looks pretty tired.

I rounded up a primary drive (compensator, chain, clutch assembly) from a 2002 Softail. And since it has a 102T starter ring, I also got the mating 10T starter jackshaft. Great, good to go, right?

WRONG. I found out the hard way that it is just not that simple. In addition to the above, I'm having to round up:
- Outer Primary Housing (already have it)
- Inner primary Housing (Jackshaft coupling is smaller than older style)
- Starter drive shaft (uses a smaller (10-24 thread?) Jackshaft screw)

For the starter drive shaft, I ended up buying a complete used starter from ebay to rob the part from. Much less $ than rounding up a new one from HD.

Can any of youse guys think of anything else I'm going to need?

In hindsight, I should have just put the 61T rear pulley on, or swap the starter ring gear on the late clutch basket,  and find nice condition outer cover.

 :kick:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline turboprop

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2019, 04:46:53 PM »
You could have skipped most this stuff by simply buying a 66 tooth conversion ring gear for the '98 and up clutch basket. That '98 up clutch basket is a very common update too FXRs. Only difference with the softail is the longer chain. Seriously, that basket would have simply bolted into your existing primary case, used the existing nine tooth pinion gear, starter, everything but the ring gear. The ring gear costs maybe $120 retail. Bunch of companies sell them.
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Offline JW113

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2019, 08:55:33 PM »
I hear ya, and yes I agree. But I'm in to deep now. My outer primary looks like ca-ca, and the one on the wall is imac. So the path that I'm on is to upgrade all this crap to the late style primary stuff. Ouch. What ever. Life's a bitch, then you die.
 :SM:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline Ironheadmike

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 08:26:57 AM »
I take it you have a late 92 . My early 92 already has 3.37 gearing .

Offline JW113

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 08:45:39 AM »
Mine had 3.37:1 as well, but I had put a 61T 2.94:1) rear pulley on it. I used to have a '91 that I had put a 61T rear pulley on, and really liked it but that bike saw a whole lot of long road trips, and had T&O torque monster flywheels as well so launches were a breeze. I put the 70T pulley back on, and it is OK but up around 80mph it starts to get a bit buzzy, so I'm going to give the 3.15:1 gearing a try. Seems like a happy compromise between too tall and too short.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline farmall

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2019, 06:20:35 PM »
I recommend the All Balls one piece jack shafts over the fiddly factory abortion the next time you remove the starter. They're much easier to install too making future starter maintenance easier. The kit comes with both bolts so either OSGR starter you have will be covered. I have them in both my FXRs.

Offline JW113

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2019, 04:56:34 PM »
Hmm, interesting concept. So, with no coupling/bushing in the inner primary for support, the starter clutch & output shaft are taking up the radial load? Have to say, I've never had the stock set up fail. Starter clutch, sure, but not the jack shaft.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Offline turboprop

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 05:41:54 PM »
Hmm, interesting concept. So, with no coupling/bushing in the inner primary for support, the starter clutch & output shaft are taking up the radial load? Have to say, I've never had the stock set up fail. Starter clutch, sure, but not the jack shaft.

-JW

No. The radial load of the one-piece jackshaft, sold by Alls Balls and others, is supported by the output shaft of the starter and the bushing in the outer primary cover.
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Offline JW113

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2019, 11:07:21 AM »
Yes, I get that. Long story short, the bushing in the middle that by design was to take the radial load is eliminated. Not for me to say if the starter output shaft is up to the task or not, but evidently the engineers at HD didn't think so. Have any of you guys had stock starter jackshaft failures? I'm just trying to understand what problem this one piece version solves.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Online ecir50

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2019, 11:31:02 AM »
its comes down to less moving parts and just overall simpler better design to me but as said the Harley parts work just fine. 

Offline turboprop

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2019, 12:56:56 PM »
Yes, I get that. Long story short, the bushing in the middle that by design was to take the radial load is eliminated. Not for me to say if the starter output shaft is up to the task or not, but evidently the engineers at HD didn't think so. Have any of you guys had stock starter jackshaft failures? I'm just trying to understand what problem this one piece version solves.

-JW

I dont like that oem design with the all the various parts, especially the large, not sue why its called, but maybe 'coupling'? The design just seems over complicated. I have that one piece jack shaft in at least one of my bikes. I think its in my red/white bike with the 2.0kw Cycle Tech starter. There are no issues with support at tighter end.
Q. What is the best _____?
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Offline Deye76

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2019, 03:03:54 PM »
The AB one piece jackshaft when used with the AB starter is a beautiful thing. If one has a stock or mild motor, the OE jackshaft is up to the task. Start spinning a larger motor with 10.5:1 or better compression, then the OE stuff becomes a "it's ok now, hope it does into he future, and will as horsepower always does, is find the weakness. All Balls has a good reputation. 
East Tenn.
2014 CVO RK, 2015 RGS, 1992 FXRP

Offline farmall

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 03:40:28 PM »
For me it speeds maintenance and reduces parts count. My inner primary is an early Delkron FXR style (pre-94) on a '97 bagger box with a late outer primary cover. (The Delkron casting is bisexual but needs one outer primary screw hole plugged and another drilled and tapped to match the late outer cover.)

The first mod I did was turning a bronze bushing to adapt the later coupling to the larger inner primary cover coupling hole which worked perfectly, but when I had the primary off to change the drive pulley I fitted the AB shaft instead for convenience. I like being able to disregard inner FXR primaries in that respect and of course it would work on baggers but those are plentiful while Delkron may or may not be revived by Solenberg Performance. (I'm on that waiting list.)

https://www.solenbergperf.com/


Offline Racepres

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 05:07:15 AM »
I will see Frank this weekend I think... heard they was up and running with the new Delkron "stuff"
The "bisexual" part of the Delkron primary interests me, as I have an old [original] Softail, Delkron set-up, unused!!!

Offline turboprop

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 10:20:26 AM »
I will see Frank this weekend I think... heard they was up and running with the new Delkron "stuff"
The "bisexual" part of the Delkron primary interests me, as I have an old [original] Softail, Delkron set-up, unused!!!

He has been saying that since he acquired the brand. Recently he said the castings for the FXR transmission were done, but machining had not taken place. No hardware for the FXR inner primary case has been made.
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Offline Racepres

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Re: Late EVO/TC Primary in Early EVO
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 11:47:54 AM »
I will see Frank this weekend I think... heard they was up and running with the new Delkron "stuff"
The "bisexual" part of the Delkron primary interests me, as I have an old [original] Softail, Delkron set-up, unused!!!

He has been saying that since he acquired the brand. Recently he said the castings for the FXR transmission were done, but machining had not taken place. No hardware for the FXR inner primary case has been made.

I agree... but the latest "news" is some lines completed...