Noise

[Trouble]

This summer, on a trip, motor started making a lot of noise, but still ran well.(100,000 miles) While at a friend's in Minnesota, we changed the lifters, thinking that would quiet it down. It was quieter, not by much, and I ran it anyway. And, the oil light stayed on until RPMs got above 12-1400 revs. The charging system gave out about 300 miles from home and had it trucked home. Just got around to opening up the motor and found the primary Cyco tensioner disintegrated, the chain guide in pieces,with less than 40,000 miles on the tensioners. A lot less miles than I would have guessed, considering how well the motor ran, and the hype about better material on the tensioners. 

[koko3052]

Well, when you ride it after strange noises appear & you have not found the root cause...chit happens!
What other damages have you found? Are you going to do a complete tear down & clean /check everything?

[Ohio HD]

Has been discussed many times on the site, the mechanical tensioners need to be looked at at 25k to 30k intervals. Plastic is plastic.

[Tollbooth]

I used the small mirror and a flashlight to inspect my tensioners, saved my bacon cause they were worn. Only had 20,000.

[Armin]

If the pinion runout is .0030 or lower the only alternative is gear drive although some eventual ticking or gear whining might be apparent.

Armin.

[PoorUB]

Time for conversion cams and a new style cam plate and tensioners. I wouldn't run the old style tensioners unless you put on just a few miles a year.

[smoserx1]

If you are looking for some words of encouragement, this type of failure is not unlike the very early twin cams that had 2 ball bearings in the cam plate with a high failure rate of the rear bearing.  Harley's position was that the contamination from the failure would not propagate throughout the entire engine and could be adequately serviced by cleaning the oil pan, cam chest and flushing the oil lines.  The repair kit at that time consisted of replacing everything in the cam chest including lifters, chains cams, plate and oil pump.  Many people will tell you that this is not sufficient; that the engine needs to be totally disassembled to check for contaminant migration, but I had the failure and the repair as mentioned and I am still riding the same bike 20 years and 211000 miles later.  You may get lucky.  Whatever you do I would not go back with anything less than conversation cams and to me that means no screaming eagle hybrid plate and certainly no spring loaded tensioners, no matter whose brand shoes are used.  Just my opinion but I do have some experience to back it up.  Good luck.

[Trouble]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning towards clean it out, replace worn/damaged parts, and stay away from those 'superior' Cyco tensioners. The second set of stock tensioners had a lot less wear than the first set for the same amount of miles, which would have been checked/replaced at designated interval. I believe if I had stayed with stock tensioners, I wouldn't be in this situation. I previously had stated I would report here how well those 'new' tensioners held up compared to the stock ones, and I have no faith in the change of plastic used on the Cyco brand. I would recommend changing them out before damage occurs.

[Trouble]

Well, 500 miles into my 'fix' and all seems well. Replaced stock spring-loaded tensioners, outer cam chain guide, cam plate(stuck oil pressure relief valve; $17.00 NOS cam plate E-bay)new oil pump gerotors(speckled surfaces from passing ground up hardened metal pieces from tensioner pin and possibly cam chain) outer cam bearings, outer cam chain, dropped oil pan and cleaned, oil lines flushed, oil cooler cleaned w/new lines, cam chest cleaned, new gaskets, seals, etc. Bike runs and sounds like it did when new. A clicky-clacky, ticky-tacky twin cam with SE 95" flatops, SE 203 cam SE touring mufflers and aftermarket air cleaner. A couple full-throttle run ups confirms power output as good as before. A shout-out to smoserx for the words of encouragement, even though I went with stock tensioners. Again. I know when to check the stock tensioners and don't appreciate the comments on how to spend my money. Doesn't anyone know how to fix things anymore? 

[Big Cahuna]

When it comes to tensioner's and Harley's, everyone has the best way to do it. And get aggravated when they have to replace the factory ones. My experience has been, I got 65 k out of the stock shoes before they needed to be replaced. They were shot at that point, but the motor wasn't making any strange noises when they were checked. Got them just in time. I look at things this way. I'm not quick to run towards aftermarket replacement parts just because the herd say's they are better. I look at how well the stock part performed. 65k was a good run in my book, so I used stock factory parts again. I thru a set of 203 cams in while I was in there and adjustable push rods so I wouldn't have to take the valve covers and all that off.  I would have used the factory push rods if I could have. When people have to change the timing belt at 60k on their cars, they don't get as worked up over it as when their bikes needs tensioners. And they probably paid alot more for the car then their bike.,,,

[PoorUB]

Again. I know when to check the stock tensioners and don't appreciate the comments on how to spend my money. Doesn't anyone know how to fix things anymore?

? ? ?
What did I miss? I read the whole thread and just saw posts of guys trying to help.

[kd]

   Obviously Trouble just wanted to hear himself talk.  He didn't actually ask for help.  The fact that he continued to ride it with depreciating oil pressure and excessive engine noise is telling.  Got lucky.  It probably should have remained a single post thread.    This is a tech forum and we all try to help give info on options and learn from that.  I for one appreciate the help I get without slapping the donor for offering help.   

[Trouble]

PoorUB: conversion cams, gear drive, new style cam plate and tensioners, complete motor tear down. Those are the comments that make me question the abilities of those answering. It only took a through reading and study of the oiling system in the FSM to conclude what was needed/warranted in this case. Including a one ton arbor press and tool for removing inner cam bearing race, I spent less than any of those posts you claim were trying to 'help'. And some of those were no help at all. Maybe you have enough money(or other people's money) to throw at a problem until it goes away. I know people with bike shops that operate under that premise. It does not speak well of their ability to think problems through and become a mechanic, rather than a 'parts-changer'. This began years ago when Cyco tensioners were being touted as the 'new' way to go for us with the spring-loaded tensioners. I wrote back then that I would report back here how well those tensioners held up, and the conclusion is they do not hold up as well as the stock tensioners. Worn out with less miles than stock.

[Deye76]

The thing with spring loaded tensioners is, they all seem to be different. I know a lot of riders, one guy looked at his stock pads with 9000 miles, almost to metal, another, his looked great at 49,000 mles, another guy with Cyco shoes had 70,000 miles. The OP got 40,000 from the Cyco, for under $20 bucks?  Should buy a lottery ticket, LOL.

[cheech]

Doesn't anyone know how to fix things anymore?

Yep we sure do, I just hate doing the same thing more than once if it doesn't improve it. If there wasn't better alternatives out to deal with the tensioner issue, well then OK, but there is. And with them it's pretty much set and forget. And I'm not referring to Cyco shoes.
There's more than one way to do it, varying opinions. Most here were just letting you know of theirs.

When people have to change the timing belt at 60k on their cars, they don't get as worked up over it as when their bikes needs tensioners. And they probably paid alot more for the car then their bike.,,,

No I hate that crap also! If there was a alternative to replace a timing belt as a there is with the Harley spring tensioners. I'd roll right with it.

[PoorUB]

PoorUB: conversion cams, gear drive, new style cam plate and tensioners, complete motor tear down. Those are the comments that make me question the abilities of those answering. It only took a through reading and study of the oiling system in the FSM to conclude what was needed/warranted in this case. Including a one ton arbor press and tool for removing inner cam bearing race, I spent less than any of those posts you claim were trying to 'help'. And some of those were no help at all. Maybe you have enough money(or other people's money) to throw at a problem until it goes away. I know people with bike shops that operate under that premise. It does not speak well of their ability to think problems through and become a mechanic, rather than a 'parts-changer'. This began years ago when Cyco tensioners were being touted as the 'new' way to go for us with the spring-loaded tensioners. I wrote back then that I would report back here how well those tensioners held up, and the conclusion is they do not hold up as well as the stock tensioners. Worn out with less miles than stock.

I said early on to run the stock tensioners if you don't put on a bunch of miles. Personally, I had an '05 Ultra and I went with conversion cams and the late model cam plate. Your motorcycle, you are certainly free to do what ever you want.

As far as the guys telling you the engine might be toast, some have been around the block once or twice. If you were around here back in the early Twin Cam years you would remember guys talking about engines that were trashed from catastrophic tensioner failures and they prefer to tear into it and make sure the engine is clean and in good shape. Many engines came apart and they found steel shavings embedded into the piston skirts and rough roller bearings for the crank from debris. Again, your money, spend it any way you like. Cross you fingers and hope you got it and there is no debris floating around in the crankcase or anything that got through the bypass of the oil filter.

[KB]

When it comes to tensioner's and Harley's, everyone has the best way to do it. And get aggravated when they have to replace the factory ones. My experience has been, I got 65 k out of the stock shoes before they needed to be replaced. They were shot at that point, but the motor wasn't making any strange noises when they were checked. Got them just in time. I look at things this way. I'm not quick to run towards aftermarket replacement parts just because the herd say's they are better. I look at how well the stock part performed. 65k was a good run in my book, so I used stock factory parts again. I thru a set of 203 cams in while I was in there and adjustable push rods so I wouldn't have to take the valve covers and all that off.  I would have used the factory push rods if I could have. When people have to change the timing belt at 60k on their cars, they don't get as worked up over it as when their bikes needs tensioners. And they probably paid alot more for the car then their bike.,,,

When I had a Japanese motorcycle dealership we would typically be replacing cam chain tensioners at about 60,000-100,000 kilometers. THOSE bikes had to have the case split to install the new endless chain (some guys would get aftermarket chains and rivet them, big risk). Replacing a Harley cam chain tensioner is a half day 4 beer "problem" by comparison, a no brainer. AND to get similar mileage or even better is a no brainer. Stop complaining.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We've seen the shoes toast at as early as 1200 miles, but had one come in once with 131,000 that had the original shoes(that were hanging by a thread).
The manufacturing burrs/sharp edges on the cam chain are the culprit.
Smoke 'em if you got 'em...

[1workinman]

 Chain drive cams are ok I guess with the newer tensioner both of my money pits have gear drive cams . I like to read this but not going to use a chain drive cam in a Harley