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Shock-ing, I tell ya

Started by JW113, October 18, 2019, 01:08:28 PM

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JW113

Was on a weekend ride up in the Sierra foothills last weekend with a bunch of fellow biker buds. Other than being the slowest bike in the pack, had a lot of fun. Somewhere along the way, maybe on the way home, Bob C said he could hear a bell like ringing coming from my bike. I had heard it too, just wrote it off to maybe one of the rear shock covers rattling around.

I got home, and took a look. The left side was tight as a drum, but the right side had some pretty good movement. It appeared to be quite solid against the upper eyelet, but definitely would easily rock around. So today I got it on the stand, removed the upper nut and then the lower bolt, and it BOING-KerBLAM!

[attach=0]

Shock shaft broken right off at the eyelet! The only thing holding it together was gravity. I have another set of 12" shocks in the garage of some unknown application and vintage, I'm sure they'll hold the fender off the tire until I round up another set of the FLH style shocks. Unfortunately about all I see available these days are supplied by (ugh!!) V-Tiwan. The stock ones I see are from Showa, considered looking for a used set but they'd likely be worn out after all these years. Que sera...

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD


JW113

Yes, I'm sure they are. This is the part that steers me away from PS shocks:

"means they will be an improvement to your motorcycle's suspension performance for as long as you are riding it. "

Pretty much anymore, when I see the word "performance" used in the same sentence as "shocks", that translates to "hard as a rock". My FLH is the nicest riding bike in my stable. Trying to keep it that way.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Trouble

You know your FLHR has air-adjustable rear shocks. Perhaps you can fit a set of those on the FLH.
You can try and make something idiot-proof, but those idiots are so darn clever

boggart

Quote from: JW113 on October 18, 2019, 02:24:36 PM
Yes, I'm sure they are. This is the part that steers me away from PS shocks:

"means they will be an improvement to your motorcycle's suspension performance for as long as you are riding it. "

Pretty much anymore, when I see the word "performance" used in the same sentence as "shocks", that translates to "hard as a rock". My FLH is the nicest riding bike in my stable. Trying to keep it that way.

-JW

I had a pair of the 412's on my 95 FLH.  They rode really nice.  Smoother than factory air.  Just have to make sure you don't get the Heavy Duty springs if you don't really really need them.

JW113

My FLHR "did" have air adjustable 12" springs, rode like a lumber wagon. Or maybe hardtail would be more accurate. It now has Ohlins, and frankly, not impressed. Also not what I call a plush ride. They're performance shocks, need I say more? My softail, let's not go there we all know how softails ride. No, the stock FLH springs/shocks were a very nice Buick-like ride. Am hoping these "replica" ones that I just ordered are similar.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on October 18, 2019, 03:51:20 PM
My FLHR "did" have air adjustable 12" springs, rode like a lumber wagon. Or maybe hardtail would be more accurate. It now has Ohlins, and frankly, not impressed. Also not what I call a plush ride. They're performance shocks, need I say more? My softail, let's not go there we all know how softails ride. No, the stock FLH springs/shocks were a very nice Buick-like ride. Am hoping these "replica" ones that I just ordered are similar.

-JW
any chance of a pic of your flh dont see em here in australia

guppymech

Stock H-D Dyna shocks are a dead ringer for Shovelhead shocks. They bolt right on and come in many lengths so choose wisely, only the MoCo could manage that!  I run a set of 12.5 Dynas on my FXE and am happy with them.
'84 FXE, '02 883R

rkrcpa

Are the rear shocks rebuildable? Obviously not applicable for the broken shock but what about in general?

The reason I ask is I have a couple of sets of shocks off my 80 FLH that would benefit from a rebuild. It's been so long I don't remember why they were replaced, most likely because they were leaking.

BTW, I replaced the last set with a set of shocks off of a Dyna.

rageglide

I have a set of older shocks if you want to try em out.  I forget the length, 11 or 12".  They should have that fairly worn out plush-ness you want

I heard that ringing sound on the way out of town, I wonder when it actually broke.  Probably on your normal commute on those sh*tty roads near your work...

JW113

Thanks Bob, might take you up on that. Indeed no idea when the eyelet broke, as it was asymptomatic other than the ring tone. The set of shocks I had hanging on the wall were evidently from my '80 sportster, with shock mount at the rear of the swing arm, not in the middle. The FLH now looks like it's had a 3" lowering kit on it! I ratcheted the spring preload up to the max, raised it about an inch? Clearly not going to cut it.

Oh and Dave, just for you.

[attach=0]

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

rageglide

The shocks i have are older set of Progressives 12" eye to eye.  I expect we could pop the spring out and you could put the covers on them.  They look just like your broken shock.  I'll drop em off later if you want

JW113

Thanks to Bob's generosity, all fixed. Have not taken it out for a spin, but definitely sitting and bouncing on it, the PS are noticeably firmer. I actually tried to fit the springs from the stock Showas in them, but the body of the PS damper is bigger so no go. But at least it's roadworthy again!

:up:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on October 19, 2019, 11:17:47 AM
Thanks Bob, might take you up on that. Indeed no idea when the eyelet broke, as it was asymptomatic other than the ring tone. The set of shocks I had hanging on the wall were evidently from my '80 sportster, with shock mount at the rear of the swing arm, not in the middle. The FLH now looks like it's had a 3" lowering kit on it! I ratcheted the spring preload up to the max, raised it about an inch? Clearly not going to cut it.

Oh and Dave, just for you.

[attach=0,msg1319710]

-JW
thats it. nice and plain

jls 64

Quote from: david lee on October 19, 2019, 05:25:41 PM
Quote from: JW113 on October 19, 2019, 11:17:47 AM
Thanks Bob, might take you up on that. Indeed no idea when the eyelet broke, as it was asymptomatic other than the ring tone. The set of shocks I had hanging on the wall were evidently from my '80 sportster, with shock mount at the rear of the swing arm, not in the middle. The FLH now looks like it's had a 3" lowering kit on it! I ratcheted the spring preload up to the max, raised it about an inch? Clearly not going to cut it.

Oh and Dave, just for you.

[attach=0,msg1319710]

-JW
thats it. nice and plain
:up: :agree:
js

rageglide

Hopefully they aren't too bad in real life.  Fairly certain they are 412's.  Too bad your original springs won't fit.

JW113

I'm sure all will be well, will go for a breakfast run tomorrow to shake it out. And here is the latest snapshot of how it sits in the driveway.

-JW

[attach=0]
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

FSG

Quote from: JW113 on October 19, 2019, 10:29:52 PM
I'm sure all will be well, will go for a breakfast run tomorrow to shake it out. And here is the latest snapshot of how it sits in the driveway.

-JW

[attach=0,msg1319781]

I see pix like that and sometimes I hate you guys .......  but it doesn't last   :chop:

friday


david lee

Quote from: FSG on October 19, 2019, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: JW113 on October 19, 2019, 10:29:52 PM
I'm sure all will be well, will go for a breakfast run tomorrow to shake it out. And here is the latest snapshot of how it sits in the driveway.

-JW

[attach=0,msg1319781]
looks stored since new.cant say ive seen one better.bet it sounds good too

I see pix like that and sometimes I hate you guys .......  but it doesn't last   :chop:

rageglide

I'm sure JW has a picture of the bike as it looked when he got it.  He's put a crap load of time and effort into fixing all the crap that was screwed up.    :up: :up:

JW113

"Before" pix and details at:

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=80781.0

While the pix on ebay looked decent, live and in the flesh was not quite as impressive. Everything that could be worn out, was. Engine barely ran, brakes were non-existent, oil leaking like the Exxon Valdez. No matter, I was looking for something that was mostly stock, and not hacked up, for a frame off last nut & bolt project.

Our trip last weekend to the Sierra foothills, it chugged along pretty well. At anything above about 75mph, it was definitely in the "breaking bolts and parts falling off" zone, so tended to keep it at 70 & under. Poor Bob, must have been painful to have to ride in the slow lane all the way up & back on a bike that cruises at 90. But I did get over 50mpg with it!

OK enough chit chat, going to go check out my "new" shocks.
:scoot:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on October 20, 2019, 11:37:05 AM
"Before" pix and details at:

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=80781.0

While the pix on ebay looked decent, live and in the flesh was not quite as impressive. Everything that could be worn out, was. Engine barely ran, brakes were non-existent, oil leaking like the Exxon Valdez. No matter, I was looking for something that was mostly stock, and not hacked up, for a frame off last nut & bolt project.

Our trip last weekend to the Sierra foothills, it chugged along pretty well. At anything above about 75mph, it was definitely in the "breaking bolts and parts falling off" zone, so tended to keep it at 70 & under. Poor Bob, must have been painful to have to ride in the slow lane all the way up & back on a bike that cruises at 90. But I did get over 50mpg with it!

OK enough chit chat, going to go check out my "new" shocks.
:scoot:

-JW
cant believe the before pic. a great transformation. well done

JW113

Actually, the "before" was a pretty tough looking Shovelhead. Which is what caught my attention. If the reality of it would have matched the look, I might have been tempted to leave it as is. But frankly, it was a total POS. Leaving me no choice but to "JW-ify" it.
:SM:

As it is today, it's a very tame, easy to ride, nice old Shovelhead. Seemingly dependable, and has impressive urban manners. It's basically turned into my daily ride.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on October 20, 2019, 04:58:45 PM
Actually, the "before" was a pretty tough looking Shovelhead. Which is what caught my attention. If the reality of it would have matched the look, I might have been tempted to leave it as is. But frankly, it was a total POS. Leaving me no choice but to "JW-ify" it.
:SM:

As it is today, it's a very tame, easy to ride, nice old Shovelhead. Seemingly dependable, and has impressive urban manners. It's basically turned into my daily ride.

-JW
no pos no more.i could cruise on that at every oportunity.what model is it

JW113

Dave I'm not sure what you mean. It's a 1977 FLH.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on October 20, 2019, 07:24:30 PM
Dave I'm not sure what you mean. It's a 1977 FLH.

-JW
i meant its not junk any more.thanks

76shuvlinoff

Nice JW!

For what it's worth I put a set of takeoffs from an 05 FX on my 76 FLH. They're a little longer but she sits fine when loaded. Rides Nice.
Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

JW113

Well, as it turns out...

After close examination of the shock that broke, I found a tiny little sticker on it with these numbers:

54615-01

So the shocks were indeed from a '01-'15 Dyna. Bummer that I already ordered a set of FLH replica shocks, could have just bought some more Dyna shocks from ebay. Oh well. It's kind of curious now that the shock broke, as it wasn't all that old.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

rageglide

As you noted dyna shock is used with a swingarm that has less leverage.  Using that shock on your FLH with the additional mechanical advantage might explain why the eye broke off.   Better the shock than the swingarm.   

FWIW I was totally happy cruising along at slower speeds on that ride.  Of course all the lane splitting didn't allow us to go anywhere near your breaking sh*t speeds.  As I said to you yesterday given the front bikes were hitting 100mph a few times (me too) overall you were never far behind.   Good running machine.

Burnout

A Dyna shock or any other shock that mounts at the axle will not have enough damping for a 77FL, or any model where the shock mounts half way between the axle and pivot.

This changes the geometry for the shock and dramatically affects the damping rates and has some affect on spring rates.

It may have been bottoming out on the 77.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

This is true, not how HD had intended to mount this type of shock. That said, and as I have said before, this Shovelhead is the nicest riding bike I own. Mounting a Dyna shock in the center of the swingarm essentially makes the spring seem softer and the damper seem lighter. But the end result is great, and in fact makes the spring/damping between front and rear almost identical, as these old stock Glide forks are sprung pretty soft as well.

And no, it was not bottoming. It's kind of hard to not notice when that happens. And I even had the springs on the lightest pre-load setting.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

kink04fxd

October 23, 2019, 05:58:45 PM #32 Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 06:05:57 PM by kink04fxd
I'm also using dyna shocks on my 82 FLH. 50 bucks versus 300 bucks it's a no brainer to me at least to try them. I got progressive springs in the front also. Rides great. Out of my three bikes, it's my favorite ride.
2000 FLHTCI (now carb)<br />1982 FLH

Burnout

I was told and agree that progressive springs waste the LIMITED suspension travel we have on a bike.

The last set of shocks I got were http://worxshocks.com/html/street_pair_street_tracker_drs_ars.html

They custom make them for your bike and weight, and they are rebuildble and re-valveable, not throw away shocks.

Even better are shocks with adjustable damping like those found on an FXDX or XLS Sport.

Many riders can't tell the difference, but those that can will welcome the adjustment.

For adjustable damping look at the "Piggyback Series"
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

For those that have the money for custom rebuildable shocks, I applaud you. But I need nice soft riding shocks for this bike. An old FLH is about as far down on the performance spectrum as it gets. Think two wheeled Barcalounger.

My "replica" FLH shocks arrived.

[attach=0]

Probably don't need to mention the brand, right? Guess the good news, better in the box than on the bike. Sent back to seller the next day. Have a set from a '16 Dyna on the way.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Burnout

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

And that is just what leaked past the bubble wrap bag. IT had pools of oil inside. I wrapped and sealed the whole mess up in a plastic garbage bag so the UPS guy didn't have to deal with it. How poetic, a garbage bag...
:hyst:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

76shuvlinoff

I had replica shocks on my FLH for a short time. They bent at the eyes. I went to Progressives but got the wrong ones (can't remember the model) after a year they both blew out on the same ride going 2 up, lubed the rear brakes nicely.  The factory take offs from the 05 FX seem to have been a good investment.
Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

JW113

The ebay Dyna shocks showed up today, so without much ado I put them on the FLH. What a difference, back to the 1967 Buick Riviera cushy ride that I love. Me one happy camper again.
:baby:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

david lee

Quote from: JW113 on November 02, 2019, 06:46:33 PM
The ebay Dyna shocks showed up today, so without much ado I put them on the FLH. What a difference, back to the 1967 Buick Riviera cushy ride that I love. Me one happy camper again.
:baby:

-JW
couldnt get a better ride than those rivieras and all elec too

76shuvlinoff

Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

JW113

OK, 2 year old thread, I know. But I think it's worth reviving. Why? I'll tell you why:

[attach=0]

Here we go again, same problem as before. Right side shock broken at the top mount. OK, so if you're like me, you might suspect something is going on here, and it's probably not due directly to the shock. This was a HD Dyna shock. You don't hear of them constantly breaking, now do ya? I don't.

Here is my theory. I think I don't have the shocks aligned correctly on the frame/swing-arm mounts. I think I much have them at a slight angle, putting a bending load on them. They have now broken twice at the top mount, where they were the rod is welded to the mount. The heat from welding probably made them a bit brittle right there, since the rods are chrome plated to prevent corrosion and mess up the seal in the body. Chroming in a weld is generally not something you want. I can see that putting a bending load on them could in time cause it to fail right there. And especially when the shock goes from full extension, to full compressing, the load (angle) gets worse.

So... I ordered a replacement Dyna shock from ebay, $25 with free shipping. THIS time, I'll take extra care to make sure the top and bottom mounts are directly in line, and don't pre-load the shock.

I had a set of 13.5" shocks I put on just to be able to ride it. HATE IT! Too tall now, and way stiffer, even on minimum spring preload. Plus now, the rear wheel is completely out of the fender, whereas before, about 1/2" of the top of the tire was covered by the fender. Looks goofy now, at least to my eye. Like the muscle car days when us stupid kids would jack the back of our car way up to "look cool". It never impressed my dad.

Damn I'm getting old!

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber